robertoart

http://www.billboard.com/artist/302382/frank-sinatra/chart?page=3&f=379 http://www.billboard.com/artist/383540/beatles/chart?page=1&f=379

I found it for a fiver and thought it was my lucky day (and I think it mentions Kenny Burrell in the liner notes). And then I got home and played it Sinatra and his people always pushed the line that "his songs were too good for the charts" Miles always wanted a chart buster too.

A masterpiece of a recording. I hear no Sharrock - Santana connection or influence. Santana is crazy.

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/james-blood-ulmer-returns-for-the-detroit-jazz-festival/Content?oid=2364506 Seriously...who wants to fuck with that tuning. He can have that all to himself. Playing guitar is hard enough as it is

That will be a vibrational experience

Didn't rvg have ashtrays?

Very much agreed. IMO, Alderson spoiled a bunch of otherwise excellent Prestige albums. I've never understood why Schlitten employed him so often. Maybe his studio time came cheap. Bob Porter told me Don used Alderson because Rudy wouldn't let him smoke Mary Jane in his studio That explains a lot...perhaps Alderson had Mary Jane tune the piano, place the microphones and do the e.q. for him. A musician friend told me that (in the Englewood Cliffs studio) RvG banned smoking anything. He remarked that Van Gelder wore white cotton gloves when touching any of the equipment... Apocryphal, or can anyone confirm that? From personal experience (in the late '70s) Rudy allowed smoking in the studio, but not in the control. I'm sure that changed later. Rudy wore those brown jersey gloves when setting up and taking down mikes in the studio. I have a photo of him doing this. He must have allowed a lot more than smoking in the studio. Because Bob Cranshaw in recollections about recording sessions with Grant Green said the one thing he remembers is VanGelder freaking out that his piano was going to get burn marks. The implication being that the musicians were fitting up during the sessions.

I thought it was Larry Coryell digging for vinyl. And that's way cooler.

maybe he's just read too much Downbeat.....Blood Ulmer's guitar playing on Illusions was described as''spastic convoluted guitar playing'.

Such a Post Modernist wanker is Dave Graney. I prefer a real authentic King Of Pop like Ray Burgess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGO0-b4Ny8

I hate that cover.

Denardo Coleman Denardo Coleman's mum Denardo Coleman's mums best friend

Based on the brief "tease", plus the "Blue Mist" performance from around that same time, I would actually look forward to seeing it more for Burrell and Kessel than for Green. Hopefully we will all get to see it one day, and we can all have an informed opinion. My opinion of Kessel, in this kind of company, is you would probably get to hear how his playing is more connected to the swing and hillbilly times, Dandy fashion sense notwithstanding. I suspect when his chord melody schtick is taken out of the equation, he would reveal himself to suffer from the kinds of limitations that are pejoratively thrown Greens way - ad infinitum. Certainly Burrell shines in the London performance, his lines and tones are very edgy for the context. But Burrell could get very third streamy and aspirational in his own greasy way...if you think that might float your boat.

Could this have been taped in colour perhaps? The well known Uk clip from this tour is in colour? Can't believe this is languishing 'hidden' in the hand of 'collectors'. I'm not familiar with the 1969 Paris Grant Green recordings. Do you have more info? Is that a French studio date or a live recording? If a live recording, was it a professional recording for French radio - or amateur recording? I believe it is a part of this performance seen here, the tunes are apparently from the Grant Green trio portion of this concert with double bass and drums. Would love to know who owns the copyright to this and why it hasn't been released before. Seems like a landmark piece of film in Jazz guitar history. It would great to hear and see Green's full Parisian TV performance. Damn right it would!!!!!

I'm not familiar with the 1969 Paris Grant Green recordings. Do you have more info? Is that a French studio date or a live recording? If a live recording, was it a professional recording for French radio - or amateur recording? I believe it is a part of this performance seen here, the tunes are apparently from the Grant Green trio portion of this concert with double bass and drums. Would love to know who owns the copyright to this and why it hasn't been released before. Seems like a landmark piece of film in Jazz guitar history.

Well this is great and unexpected news. I've always wanted to hear the organ version of Jean De Fleur. One of my favourite tunes. Someone must have done some lobbying to release these rejected tunes from the vault. Well done and thank you whoever you are.

Wow. What are the 5 unissued? From here? Jean De Fleur...rejected? Has there been a culture change. Someone has signed off on this? "Big" John Patton Quintet Tommy Turrentine (trumpet -2/4) George Braith (soprano saxophone, stritch -1/4) "Big" John Patton (organ) Grant Green (guitar) Ben Dixon (drums) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, July 11, 1963 1. tk.3 Blue John Blue Note BST 84143 2. tk.14 Nicety - 3. tk.15 Jean De Fleur rejected 4. tk.27 Extension - 5. tk.32 I Need You So - * Blue Note BST 84143 "Big" John Patton - Blue John (also released) = Blue Note CDP 7 84143 2 "Big" John Patton - Blue John "Big" John Patton Quartet George Braith (soprano saxophone) "Big" John Patton (organ) Grant Green (guitar) Ben Dixon (drums) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, August 2, 1963 tk.16 Hot Sauce Blue Note BST 84143 tk.20 Bermuda Clay House - tk.26 Chunky Slick rejected tk.29 Davene - tk.34 Dem Dirty Blues Blue Note BST 84143 tk.36 Country Girl - tk.45 Untitled Patton Tune rejected tk.62 Kinda Slick - * Blue Note BST 84143 "Big" John Patton - Blue John (also released) = Blue Note CDP 7 84143 2 "Big" John Patton - Blue John + add this to the list of unissued Grant Green recordings..... Grant Green Trio Paris 1969 I Don't Want Nobody To Give Me Nothing Oleo How Insensitive Untitled Blues in G Untitled Blues in F

As a relatively recent arrival I'm curious. Could you provide some links to threads and posts from the past that support your accusations? Else, you'll keep coming across as someone intent on simply stirring things up. How I perceive things here and how you perceive them will probably be vastly different. Just keep reading here and participating and enjoy. Unfortunately after being genuinely rapt to find such a board existed in 2006ish, my dismay has significantly increased over time. I think the most telling evidence about this board is not so much who chooses to engage and post here, but who doesn't? Perhaps it's better to keep things at a certain level. But For me, the whole tenor of the board is essentially tarnished. Anyway ....back to the boards ragging and thinly disguised vitriol towards Crouch and anyone else who doesn't project the cultural history of the music in ways that are acceptably inclusive to or highlighting peripheral identities.

My aunty who was Jewish told me there was religious Jews and 'the tribe of Jews'. Then again Perhaps my aunt was just trying to speak to me in a language she thought I would relate too. Maybe by expecting Jewish leaders to have some kind of civic or formal acknowledgement of past injustices I am being overly respectful to the concept of 'the tribe'. Which takes responsibility for it's self collectively If the idea of expressions of ownership of past injustices are so silly, perhaps a better question might be has there been much in the way of Jewish exploration and conciliatory literature or music or arts that extends itself the way the Baldwin or West pieces do. The West quote is so conciliatory it comes across as obsequious. In regards to things specific to here, I've read this board for nearly eight years and been saddened time and again by a significant grain of what I can only feel after all this time is a genuine overarching ignorance and perspective on what the music must mean to Black America and how that is over ridden by the self importance and egos of bit part players and other participants who had control of the cheque books and the texts. If this was a Shoah board then yes total respect, But this is a Jazz board, so respect where respect is due and all that.

The mouse that roared!

There's a lot to be said for constipation in some instances.

Ok, which "Jewish community" are we talking about? Worded like this, it sounds like there's only/just one monolithic/all-purpose "Jew", and I'll call bullshit on that right now, even though Question #2 refers to "communities", the lack of a "some" or anything has the same connotation. Reality is fucked up enough, and has really gotten us nowhere. Simplified/compressed reality might get us nowhere faster, but it's still nowhere. I've had enough of nowhere. I'll rephrase the questions (and answer them) - are pigs gonna be pigs? Yes, they are. And are people willing to go along with bullshit in order to get theirs? Yes they are. Now, I don't know that that gets us out of nowhere, but at least we know what the warning signs are. The wise one will look out for them everywhere, not just in nowhere. I'm sure that historically there was a Jewish community just the same as there was an African American community. Just the same as there was a Native American community. These things might be different across the country, although I guess a lot of this stuff with regard to African Americans and Jewish people seems to be focused on New York. Or at least that's what it seems to me. Historically over here there is a Jewish neighbourhood same as there is a Aboriginal neighbourhood. And even though those neighbourhoods have changed as people have moved on or out (or were forced out by the imposition of inner city development), the neighbourhoods are still symbolically associated with each cultural group. And each cultural group has their leaders and spokespeople that speak to varying degrees for and represent the community. In Australia though, the Jewish community really did emerge as refugees from Nazi Europe, and so much of the Jewish community here was established from families that arrived at the death knell before World War ll, which is probably different to the Jewish diaspora in New York. So sure there might have been some pluralist aspects to it, but marginalised people tended to be more self contained. And still do to a point. Of course I take into account what you posted upstream about rural communities and poverty bringing people together and into a relationship of sorts. I know this intimately from my time living on my Aboriginal families Country or Mission, (a very rural situation), where the historic support around the farming communities and the Mission families ran deep. And the allegiances and friendships are still honoured to this day. However the story was a little bit different in the city amongst the poverty and the masses. Perhaps because the aspect that was the land was taken out of the equation, and there was less to buffer and bring people together away from the full force of racism and poverty, so it was much more an us and them situation for Aboriginal community - not to say there wasn't a lot of White people that weren't considered like family, especially because so many White men married Aboriginal girls. And in some ways a lot of Aboriginal women historically were too shamed to marry Aboriginal men. So I think these questions I posted above are relevant questions and relevant to Jewish relationships with Black music. Especially to how or whether Jewish people were different in the way they related to Black people in terms of not just the overt racism, but also perhaps things like 'paternalism' or more subtle forms of dominance.

Interesting piece from 'do the math'. A couple of questions I'd like to pose. Do you think the Jewish community 'didn't' exploit Black American communities back in the day? Or if they did, has there ever been any formal or civic acknowledgement of this from Jewish leaders in the forms of apologies or even simple recognition. Another question might be, did Jewish communities buy into the White Suprematism of the US as well in their interactions or integrations with Black communities. And surely these issues must have had a significant effect on Jewish relations with Black American music, or to put it more ecumenically American music?

http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/5-reading-the-black-jazz-writers.html