Dan Gould

Well let's go back to what was said: The fact is that a large proportion of the music pulled together to become "smooth jazz" comes directly out of the century-long artistic development, i.e., all of the groups that started in "fusion" and became core "smooth jazz" artists. I don't think anyone was claiming that the radio consultants "created" the music; the statement is simply wrong when it doesn't understand that most of the instrumental music programmed on Smooth Jazz stations came out of the fusion era, i.e., Spyro Gyra, the Yellowjackets, up through Jeff Lorber who begat the Lord of the Smooth Jazz Realm, the G-Spot himself. Not to mention George Benson and Herb Alpert. Now, I actually happen to agree with this statement, "The unfortunate result is a generation of people who think they understand jazz, but in fact have never heard it" but that is only because I believe that fusion was a misstep in the evolution of the music away from the core values. So naturally a further evolution into "smooth 'jazz'" would result in such a slight to non-existent "jazz" content that yes, fans who think they understand jazz don't in fact have a clue about it. But to say that there is no connection between the instrumental music known as "smooth jazz" and the historical evolution of the music remains ludicrous.

I remember when I first stumbled across one of these Verves, having had no idea that Grant had recorded as a sideman with Rabbit. But I didn't need to wonder aloud whether or not it would be good. I grabbed it and put it on the stereo as soon as I got home.

I don't know about that. "It's a classic. Get it." There you go - five words, not even 450.

Yes it was, and his screw-up in the Phillipines (starting a fire in their bomb-making at a hotel) ruined their plan to bomb 12 US passenger jets in the same way. Despite the annoyances, its nice to know that you can't bring a big old bottle of nitroglycerin on a plane anymore, like this guy did.

Well, my take is that he came here, discovered that his article was the subject of a lengthy thread, and bumped it by posting his reaction. But it was me who got the pot boiling again by taking exception to what I considered an accusation of misogyny that had no real basis in fact.

On the positive side, this has to be a new record in how long Norah has been mentioned without anyone bringing up who her proud papa is. I'm proud of you guys. Really I am.

I've stumbled across an internet seller with very good prices and an interesting selection of reissues, many from the Rev-Ola label which I haven't heard of before but sounds like something as dedicated to quality as Ace. Any advice on any of the following is appreciated, particularly in the area of which is essential, which is merely good. The seller has a great deal on shipping - $6 covers up to 10 discs. I'm trying not to go overboard here but I am having a hard time. Doc Pomus - Blues in the Red Anna King - Back Soul - James Brown produced her debut record. Big John Greer - I'm The Fat Man Sugar ‘Chile’ Robinson - Go Boy Go!: 1949-1952 Little Walter - Stray Dog Blues - pretty sure I have most of these tunes but haven't checked yet. Joe Hinton - Funny (How Time Slips Away) Johnny Adams - The Tan Canary: New Orleans 1973-81 Ike Turner & His Kings of Rhythm - Early Times - this would actually be the first pre-Tina Ike Turner CD I'd own Buddy & Ella Johnson - Gotta Go Upside Your Head Shuggie Otis - In Session Information Percy Mayfield - The Voice Within - believe it or not, I only own the Tangerine recordings, so this one is almost certainly at the top of the list anyway. Brew Moore - The Kerouac Connection Can't post any more images but this has Miles and Bird among others. I've heard Brew's Steeplechase CD with Kenny Drew and enjoyed it quite a bit.

you, me, Erik ... I didn't read it as an attack. If anything you should be upset at Kevin for his post. I remember the last months of the BNBB quite vividly. It was a total free-for-all. Many people were begging for moderation since there hadn't been any in several months. Try not looking at it behind rose-colored glasses. The place was dying. It was a good thing they pulled the plug. I don't deny any of that about the last days. I object to a broad brush painting a lot of people as members of an "old boy club" who reject women, particularly women not worthy of the famous Blue Note label. Bill can object all he wants but his broad brush statements are unmistakable both in his original article and in his posts to this thread. I've explained why gender had nothing to do with the reaction to Norah, he responded by asking about reactions to Hancock, Benson and Wes's forays into pop music. He doesn't acknowledge that he's wrong, he comes up with new points of contention.

you, me, Erik ...

No loss there, as you don't appear to know squat about jazz, and even less about the former members of the BNBB, whom you continue to pronounce judgments on with only the narrowest reed - Aric's sexism and a handful of other people's comments - to hang them on.

You are painting with an extraordinarily wide brush here, friend. And that's rather rude, I might add. Norah's music was put out on BN because the label pres signed her and figured it would improve his bottom line. A lot of BN fans didn't care for her music or didn't care for the fact that she was out on BN. This had nothing whatsoever to do with her gender. Just because a famously uncouth and childish member posted about "bands that gangbang the chick singer" and he wasn't unanimously attacked for it doesn't mean that misogyny was running rampant. I don't think you are making a lot of friends here with your accusations.

No, it was her music (very little jazz content) plus the label they chose to put her debut album on. There have been interesting discussions here (and on the BNBB for that matter) about "Blue Note Fetishists" and the fact that great music was put out on many other labels at the same time. The fact remains that BN has a special appeal for a lot of jazz fans. And thus irrelevant to a discussion of BLUE NOTE its Bulletin Board and the reaction of members, old and new, to Norah Jones music. Are you speaking of the Madlib dude who remixed/fucked around with/ a bunch of Blue Note tunes? I think it made little point to the people here who are core customers of the label - many others who are interested in that sort of thing had their own takes on it. Had the release happened when the BNBB was still going strong, I suspect that the reaction might have been stronger, because of the way some people view the label. I am sure there would have been, but again, this took place on the Blue Note board after Norah was released on the Blue Note label. Now that we've answered some of your questions, will you kindly acknowledge that you were wrong in implying that objection by the "old boys club" to Norah was based on her gender?

Last time I checked none of those people were recording for Blue Note. :rolleyes:

I figured you'd enjoy it, HG. If they ever produce Seconds From Near Disaster, this will be the pilot episode, no pun intended. Yeah, that was a pretty amazing save. I would NOT want to have been in that plane, even though it all turned out fine. And Dan, I have taken to watching reruns of that show, fear-of-flying be damned! I'm actually watching Air Emergency right now, the episode is about the Philippine Air flight in which a terrorist brought the bomb parts on board in pieces, put it together in the bathroom and left it under a seat in First Class and departed the plane at its intermediate stop before heading on to Tokyo. It wasn't powerful enough to bring the plane down and iirc, the only fatality was the poor guy fated to sit in that seat.

Sent you a PM just before you posted the above. Let me know if you don't get it, and I'll send it again, though stupidly I forgot to save it. I can remember the gist of it, though -- I'm not that far gone yet. yes, I got your PM and just finished responding. Looking forward to your comments!

Bill, Tom says it pretty well above but to put it in my own words, My objection has nothing to do with whether or not music or jazz discussion boards are dominated by men. I'd be an idiot to contend that they aren't. My objection has to do with the presumption that whatever venom was expressed toward Norah had anything to do with that. The objection was based on the light jazz content of her smash hit record. The inappropriateness of her being on Blue Note was shown by the appearance on the site of all of her new fans, none of whom could have identified Alfred Lion and if they had heard "Song for My Father" they would have presumed that Horace Silver stole the opening from Steely Dan. Your comparison to the perceptions of the "top trumpet player" is meaningless, because Norah Jones wasn't run off of the Blue Note BB. But the experience here is that we tend to run off rude people, not women.

And yet people who don't like to fly think nothing of the higher accident rate and jump in their cars for a cross-country drive all of the time.

Say Larry, I saw you had revived this thread and I thought maybe you were posting your new, significantly revised view of Scott Hamilton's ballad playing since you were blown away by the compilation I sent. It did arrive though, and you do plan to post something right?

Not to rehash this thing, but I find this part really objectionable: Yeah, there are a lot of males here but the distaste for Norah that was expressed had nothing to do with her ovaries and everything to do with the fact that her music didn't fit very well on the label because of its low jazz content.

Tim Raines, who debuted this year on the Hall of Fame ballot and if there is any justice, will ultimately make it in the next five or six years.

Yeah, they were probably repeating your screen name.

The hell you say!

Yeah, I was thinking when he reached that extreme angle, its time to declare he's aborting the landing and hit that throttle and get the hell out of there.

I figured you'd enjoy it, HG. If they ever produce Seconds From Near Disaster, this will be the pilot episode, no pun intended.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/03/03...lane/index.html I've never seen a plane slammed this much so close to the runway. Great job by the pilots to abort and go around.