fasstrack

'Depping'. We call it subbing Stateside. Maybe I'll steal that and use it and no one will understand me so I'll seem obscure, complicated, and 'deep'. Worth a shot...

PS in fact I don't know frank but I'll look out for him... I thought he was well-known in London Guess he's been lying. 'You got some 'splainin' to do' (; No, it's a good group, mostly for Frank's arranging. Plays nice clarinet too. They play the smaller fests and normal venues like Bull's head, 606, Pizza Express. Worth hearing and if you can please say cheers from Joel.

Reading the end of this almost makes me wish I was a shrink-Freudian! of course (; There seems, for one thing, to be no end to people's infantile need for attention (and by no means do I think I'm different or excused), and it's equally fascinating how easily riled and thrown many of us get. One thing that's obvious to me is that the need for attention re trolls or even engaging someone online who rubs you the wrong way esp. when an ignore button is so easy to use runs both ways. If you keep engaging and engaging and getting riled it says as much about you as the troll. There are some smart, accomplished people here. One by-product of this is strong opinions and personalities. Head-butts are inevitable sometimes. The moral/courteousness compass I try every day, desperately at times, to believe we all have should signal when it becomes a boring, distracting, or self-absorbed sideshow unfair to the OP and all others trying to have THAT discussion. Still working on it myself, and I fail a lot.Ignore works.

I'm going to take a wild guess, David: Something in my gut tells me you're no Marsalis or Jarrett fan. I'm RIGHT?! DAMN, I'm good! (; Hey, seriously. I wonder if you know of an old mate of mine, Frank Griffith, in London since leaving NY in 1996. Probably ynu have through his Nonet. He also teaches at Brunel.

It's so funny you mention speech patterns. That drummer I mentioned, Vanderlei: We've known each other at least 25 years, and did a string of gigs in the last 4. He's an authority IMO, not just on bossa/samba but the whole panoply of Afro-based rhythm, plus a totally original jazz drummer. He came up w/rhythms I never knew existed at reheasal. It was 'whoa-stop right there! What's THAT called?' Anyway, I ran into him on the street and he took a cell call in Portugese. I stood there amazed at the beauty of the language the same way as when Elis Regina sings. The pull of that culture is just very strong. It's not my major work focus. The ASB w/jazz interpretation will always be that. But the melodies are so beautiful and the rhythm so relaxed I just have to keep at it. Like anything else you hang out, practice w/records, learn the tunes, go to jams, be humble, show you're serious. Cats will give you the world if you're real and love their music.

PM me By all means!

Point of Departure. Never see that one again w/o shelling out big semoleans. I remember the insidd flap picture of Raney smoling inside a soundbooth that was anyway probably rife w/asbestos. Oh, the joys of healthy living.. Speaking of Raney, In 3 Attitudes. I know it's on youtube but I want to pay and get the LP. I blew it once already.

Also Mark Levine: Up 'Til Now (Catalyst, 1976), an ambitious and well-realized date w/great early Tom Harrell, and nice Ray Pizzi.

Gary MacFarland Sextet w/Jlmmy Raney and Richie Kamuka, that I can remember. One tune was Pecos Pete (I THINK). There another small group MacFarland date w/Bill Evans, Jim Hall, and Spencer Sinatra. Can't remember the name, moody, sensitive stuff, and both very rare. Buddy Montgomery: This Rather than That, and some assorted other dates. Finally, and I'm not sure of the title, and at least one tune, Hoedown, surfaced on CD of an Oliver Nelson big band date that used Jimmy Raney. I only heard Hoedown, so I don't know if Jimmy was on all of it, and if anyone knows the original issue title I'd love to know it.

I guess I could have a more nuanced view of hip hop culture, but what I've seen of the commercial element-which, let's face it, is the thug aspect which is what sells-is so distasteful to me I choose not to. If I cared enough it would be offensive to me. I know there's more to it but there's nothing appealling musically to me, I don't find the 'poetry' as clever as its creators do, and the vulgarity belies, among other things, a lack of familiarity of rich expression English is rife with. But if it floats another boat, cool. As to the compensation aspects, as a songwriter who has been robbed in other ways, as have many before me,sorry if I'm over-sensitized but I am.

Jiffy, or the fancy-pants organic stuff?

It's a bizarre story. But b/c the guy's a urologist, and he peeped on the subway, to another matter completely: The dearth of open public bathrooms in the subways. It makes life tough for people who---well, w/o getting into too much information---need to 'go' a lot. And b/c of said lack of facilities, or ones that are always locked, people, being people, do what they do, shall we say sans facilities. This makes no sense. Open the damn bathrooms! Maybe he got it from Woody Allen in Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex. The king catches Allen, the very unfunny court jester, under his wife's skirt. Jester: 'Well, um, your Majesty. You said if I was ever in town I could look up your wife'.

The chapter on Gershwin was good, but seemed to make him poet laureate of American music of the time. I would say one among others. I was wondering, among other things, about Irving Berlin's influence on Gershwin---specifically with the syncopated type writing. Ellington was brought up, but according to Mr. Gerber had little to say about Gershwin's more expansive pieces. An Ellington musician (whose name I can't recall but will cite next time I see the book) said Gershwin approached Ellington to collaborate 'but Duke wouldn't do it'. Wish he had more to say than that. I have to say I never knew of an author so willing to have email dialogs with readers and even graciously accept constructive criticism as Mike Gerber. (It's not like I write to authors every day). He's happy with the reception his book has gotten---and I'm happy for him, it's a worthwhile bit of social history.

Maybe this was a bad idea...

Joe Cohn. He'll play your stuff right back to you, including piano voicings on guitar. He can get anything instantly and run with it. Plus he's endlessly creative as an improvisor.

I was specifically referring to the practice of sampling of (w/o paying for) instrumental and other sounds by rappers, a practice that went on for years. Tell me what's ignorant in that?

Yes, Golson is very clearly in the line of descent from Dameron and only slightly less so, Gryce too. That 1953 band that Tadd led with them both and Clifford Brown must have been a very formative unit. Gigi Gryce is another estimable talent, player-composer. I wonder if he and Benny were in the Bullmoose Jackson band together. That had to be some band! I've been meaning to get around to reading Rat Race Blues. I hope it's not too depressing, since word is he was run out of the business when he tried to control and publish his own compositions and those of others.

Whatever, dude. Talk to me after YOU'VE been ripped off. I'll leave it at that and move on.

That makes 0 sense to me, man. The only 'idea' behind sampling is that it's an easy way for the thug hustler types that IMO comprise most of rap to steal rather than get off their asses and God forbid learn to PLAY an instrument likd the ones they steal from can. I'm glad to see a guy like Jimmy Heath finally getting royalties from what those lowlife thugs got away w/pillaging for so long. Too little too late, but it's a start...

Well I'm not going to tell people to buy inferior or especially unauthorized recordings. I guess they can do what they want, and it's there. But thanks for telling me, and no, don't anyone post the link, it's against the rules here anyway. Administrators, you can remove this thread w/my blessing and apologies. I meant well. A drag. Guess it was too good to be true.

This is great news. IRRC the last recording Mr. Dameron released after his troubles was a big band date called Dial B for Beauty-ca. 1960. As far as his influence as composer, it is untold. Besides influencing all those people in his circle you mention with such melodic, lyrical, and swinging writing listen to all the TV arranging from that period-like it or not, they 'borrowed' Tadd's voicings. Especially the saxes. Listen to I Love Lucy. Tadd should have gotten royalties. As far as the people you mentioned I can verify one as correct. I had the pleasure once of talling about composing w/Benny Golson. I asked who his favorite writers were. His exact words were 'I was touched by Tadd Dameron and went from there'. Again thanks for posting this.

I was with a friend today and mentioned that I thought the quintet stuff w/Nelson and Dolphy was smokin'. He pulled out an LP 2fer w/Straight Ahead and Screamin' the Blues (the 2nd actually a sextet w/Richard Williams, trumpet). We listened to Straight Ahead and it knocked me on my ass as usual, the group, the writing, the solos. For some reason I thought there was another quintet date. My friend looked it up. There isn't, BUT he found all 4 recordings Nelson and Dolphy made together (the above plus Blues and the Abstract Truth and a big band Lockjaw Davis date) sold together for as low as $16 and change. I didn't see the site, and anyway can't post links from a cell phone, so would someone do the honors for this ridiculously good deal?

Yeah, looked it up. That's how the song starts, with a different melody, and English kyrics by Gene Lees (of whom I'm not a huge fan). I'm sure the original Portugese is much better, iike in most Jobim's songs except the ones he translated himself. Glad we solved THAT problem. Next stop: GLOBAL WARMING!!

This is probably gonna drive Jim even CRAZIER, but.. I figured out how that other part of Someone to.. goes.. that I mixed up w/Dreamer. Probably it's a 'prelude' section of the song. Some of the English lyric is 'may all your days...and live your life in peace'. Then it goes into the main section. If it were in Eb the first 2 chords would be (2 measures each) Eb6-F7-then it repeats. Melody is 3 quarter note triplets followed by a 1/2 note in the first bar. Notes are 3rd?, tonic, 2nd, 3rd, last note the half note ('may all your days..'). That's the best I can do, but that's how Jobim and Sinatra open Someone to.. I have to lay down now. I'm tired (;

Maybe the way I put it was confusing. Maybe instead of asking if people are struggling with it I should ask if anyone successfully adapted from an American to Brasilian feel, or what their general take on playing that music is? That's what I'm trying to find out. Sorry if I was unclear.