JSngry Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Thanks, SS! The simplest way to collate all this stuff would be in a Mosaic set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) I was already getting crazy over this Basie discography stuff... (almost done on the Lord source...) Swede, care to help out with this project? Edited June 5, 2004 by couw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Ok, now that I think about it, Verve DID put out another 2LP compilation of early New Testament sides in the early 80s(?). Might have been called PARADISE SQUAT, I don't remember. But I swear I remember Illinois Jacquet being mentioned as among the featured players, and I can't find any reference to a Verve Basie date that includes Jacquet on those Japanese sites. Anybody have any insight as to the Jacquet thing and/or that other Verve 2-fer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 I sincerely hope that anyone doing discographical work on Basie is not without the Chris Sheridan bio-discography. Unfortunately I don't own a copy or I'd volunteer to assist. Lord is not to be relied on. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.D. Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 (edited) Ok, now that I think about it, Verve DID put out another 2LP compilation of early New Testament sides in the early 80s(?). Might have been called PARADISE SQUAT, I don't remember. But I swear I remember Illinois Jacquet being mentioned as among the featured players, and I can't find any reference to a Verve Basie date that includes Jacquet on those Japanese sites. Anybody have any insight as to the Jacquet thing and/or that other Verve 2-fer? There was a 2LP set called Paradise Squat, but the Jacquet tracks were not included there. July 22 1952 Jacquet recorded with a Basie small group Jacquet / Basie on organ/Hank Jones/Freddie Green/ Ray Brown / Jimy Crawford Lean Baby 2 takes exist Cool Rage Port O Rico Somewhere Along the Way was also recorded but Basie did not play. These were issued back then in a similar 2LP package under Jacquets name The album was title The Cool Rage. Paradise Squat had some Basie small group Blues for Count and Oscar Basie with OP and Quinichette plus Lockjaw and usual rhythm Extended Blues similar but no saxes. The rest of the LPs were big Band tracksfrom1952 Collectors Classics have hit this period but have not yet issued all these tracks Ocium have also entered into releasing this period of Verves Basie recordings The first CD was Count Basie Talks.. which is the first23 tracks from Paradise Squat.. there were three extra Big Band tracks that are on the next Ocium CD Be My Guest, which include the OP recordings plus the attempts at a KC7 group with Newman and Quinichette.. nice but nowhere near the " originals" Al Hibbler sings in there too. Strangely the Jacquet sides are missing from this selection.. possibly on an Ocium Jacquet set.. I'll have to check One take of Lean Baby and Port O Rico were on the verve comp Illinois Jacquet.. Flying Home The best of the Verve Years. BTW Ocium have also put out a CD called Jam Session One.. Apple Jam that has the Norman Granz Jam Session #3 & #4, the Basie Jam sessions listed above.. together on one CD Edited June 6, 2004 by P.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 There was a 2LP set called Paradise Squat, but the Jacquet tracks were not included there... Paradise Squat had some Basie small group Blues for Count and Oscar Basie with OP and Quinichette plus Lockjaw and usual rhythm Extended Blues similar but no saxes. The rest of the LPs were big Band tracksfrom1952 Did these small group cuts appear on any Verve/Clef/etc LPs in their time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.D. Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Did these small group cuts appear on any Verve/Clef/etc LPs in their time? That I don't know for sure, Jim. I was in England when they were first released, and we only got the pseudo KC 7's on 78 rpm discs. I have never seen any reference to them on USA Lps. in my Ebay etc, searches. So I'm quite happy that Ocium are doing this. If they were issued on an American LP, it must be quite rare. Frankly the music is O.K... not exceptional, and perhaps that is why it is not easily available.. but if you put on your Basie Completeist hat.. well then its a somewhat unusual part of his output for the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 I sincerely hope that anyone doing discographical work on Basie is not without the Chris Sheridan bio-discography. Unfortunately I don't own a copy or I'd volunteer to assist. Lord is not to be relied on. Mike thanks for your concern, rest assured we share it. Lord did offer an easy way to get it all in elctronic format, though and I have nearly finished rearranging that information in the desired table fields. There is at least one Sheridan in the group to check it all against. Working with the Lord material I noticed there are a lot of unclarities due to the format of only listing changes in personnel which seems to lead to small changes not being noted at all. We are still unsure what to do with the information on the actual releases but will probably stick to listing the original album issues (for the LP era); this thread does help clearing up some of that mess, so thanks for that The bigger problem probably lies with all those half hearted half official or downright illegal releases though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Did these small group cuts appear on any Verve/Clef/etc LPs in their time? That I don't know for sure, Jim. I was in England when they were first released, and we only got the pseudo KC 7's on 78 rpm discs. I have never seen any reference to them on USA Lps. in my Ebay etc, searches. So I'm quite happy that Ocium are doing this. If they were issued on an American LP, it must be quite rare. Frankly the music is O.K... not exceptional, and perhaps that is why it is not easily available.. but if you put on your Basie Completeist hat.. well then its a somewhat unusual part of his output for the time. Thanks, PD. You jogged my memory re:the Jacquet stuff. So what was on Basie Rides Again! (1952) & Basie Jazz (1952)? The material on PARADISE SQUAT? And to think I didn't buy it back then...FOOL! We REALLY need a Mosaic of this stuff or some kind of cohesive/coherent plan from Verve (Japanese or otherwise, but wouldn't American Verve seem the proper -no pun iontended- place?), or else this is going to become one of those "exceptions to the rule" deals (ie - it ain't likely to be coming out anywhere else in MY lifetime) when it comes to my buying those Eurodomain discs. This is COUNT BASIE for crying out loud, and important material at that (among other things, plenty of Wardell Gray, if I read my histories correctly...). Everybody's doing right, or fairly right, by so many bands, it seems, so when I see, say, a collection of Ellington stuff on one of "those" labels at a "can't resist" price, well, I can resist. But Verve has not been doing right by this material (are you going to tell me that if they can't make the numbers work that Mosaic can't/won't do it for them?), and if they don't get off the stick pretty soon, my impatience will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Getting back to jlhoots' original question, can someone recommend four of the best ones to buy here. Buying them all would seem to be a little expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Yeah - someone help us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.D. Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 (edited) Getting back to jlhoots' original question, can someone recommend four of the best ones to buy here. Buying them all would seem to be a little expensive. This, as usual, boils down to what you expect from the band and becomes a matter of individual taste. The recordings span quite a lot of years. They come from both sides of Basie's Roulette days, and therefore represent different eras of the band But The two 1952 sets represent the " Paradise Squat" period discussed above. This was the resurgence of the Basie Big Band, which really hit its stride on the Dance Sessions set so I would put these first. I would also push the Jam Sessions, if you like a more loose set of Basie influenced music.. you get Getz and Gray together. I'm not big on Ballad Medleys, and the disc that has that on ( #4??) at Japanese prices would be hard for me to swallow... you do get the whole session on one disc from Ocium for about $9 - $12.00 depending on where you shop From the later dates.. On My Way and Shouting. Again I don't want to redo the debate on the validity of the European labels taking advantage of copyright expiration, but Ocium seem to have set out on a chronological issue of Basie on verve.. the next disc should be the Dance Sessions. The only people that might be getting ripped here are verve... and frankly that really doesn't bother me.. I'll take this music as it becomes available.. plus some other verves that they have done..Ocium don't seem to be " copying" other releases like some... no doubt I may purchase it all again if and when a better source ( Mosaic) is found. Japanese discs lasting 30 mins for $25.00 ain't it... Anyway my suggestion Dance session 1& 2 Jam Session 3 & 4 On My Way.. for post Roulette Basie. Edited June 6, 2004 by P.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted June 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 I was already getting crazy over this Basie discography stuff... (almost done on the Lord source...) Swede, care to help out with this project? PM sent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted June 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 There was a 2LP set called Paradise Squat, but the Jacquet tracks were not included there... Paradise Squat had some Basie small group Blues for Count and Oscar Basie with OP and Quinichette plus Lockjaw and usual rhythm Extended Blues similar but no saxes. The rest of the LPs were big Band tracksfrom1952 Did these small group cuts appear on any Verve/Clef/etc LPs in their time? The two July 1952 small group tracks on Paradise Squat were first on the Clef LP Basie Jazz and later one track each on the reconfigured Clef LPs The Swinging Count! and Basie Rides Again!. The December 1952 small group tracks made their 12” debut on The Swinging Count!. The Jacquet small group session with Basie on organ was on a Clef 12” LP called Port Of Rico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted June 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 So what was on Basie Rides Again! (1952) & Basie Jazz (1952)? The material on PARADISE SQUAT? And to think I didn't buy it back then...FOOL! I must correct myself a bit. The material on Basie Jazz was later split on two other Clef albums, The Swinging Count! (which is being reissued) and Basie Rides Again! (which isn’t). These reconfigurations enabled Granz to add two other 1952 sessions (one on each album) that previously only had been available on 10” LPs. Thus with the Japanese reissue of The Swinging Count!, Basie Jazz can safely be considered obsolete and scratched from the list, and only Basie Rides Again! remains of the 1952 albums. Well, this is tricky! As for the contents of Basie Rides Again!, a list follows below. All of it was also on Paradise Squat, which contained the first 29 tracks (and an alternate) that Basie recorded in 1952. Paradise Squat also included all of The Count!, one track from The Swinging Count!, two previously unissued tracks, and one track that was on a 10” LP but apparantly by mistake wasn’t included on any 12” Clef LP because of a mix-up of tune titles. MGC 729 Basie Rides Again! Paul Campbell, Wendell Culley, Joe Newman, Charlie Shavers (tp) Henry Coker, Benny Powell, Jimmy Wilkins (tb) Marshall Royal (as, cl) Ernie Wilkins (as, ts) Floyd Johnson, Paul Quinichette (ts) Charlie Fowlkes (bars) Count Basie (p) Freddie Green (g) Jimmy Lewis (b) Gus Johnson (d) Neal Hefti, Sy Oliver (arr) NYC, January 25, 1952 Jive at Five No Name Redhead Every Tub Paul Campbell, Wendell Culley, Reunald Jones, Joe Newman (tp) Henry Coker, Benny Powell, Jimmy Wilkins (tb) Marshall Royal (as, cl) Ernie Wilkins (as, ts, arr) Eddie 'Lockjaw' Davis, Paul Quinichette (ts) Charlie Fowlkes (bars) Oscar Peterson (p -4) Count Basie (p, org) Freddie Green (g) Jimmy Lewis (b) Ray Brown (b -4) Gus Johnson (d) Buck Clayton, Andy Gibson, Buster Harding, Nat Pierce, Don Redman, A.K. Salim (arr) NYC, July 22 & 23, 1952 Bread There's a Small Hotel Blee Blop Blues Be My Guest You're Not the Kind Eddie 'Lockjaw' Davis, Paul Quinichette (ts) Count Basie (org) Oscar Peterson (p) Freddie Green (g) Ray Brown (b) Gus Johnson (d) same location, date Blues for the Count and Oscar Paul Campbell, Wendell Culley, Reunald Jones, Joe Newman (tp) Henry Coker, Benny Powell, Jimmy Wilkins (tb) Marshall Royal (as, cl) Ernie Wilkins (as, ts) Eddie 'Lockjaw' Davis, Paul Quinichette (ts) Charlie Fowlkes (bars) Count Basie (p) Freddie Green (g) Gene Ramey (b) Gus Johnson (d) Al Hibbler (vo) NYC, December 12, 1952 Sent for You Yesterday Goin' to Chicago By the way, stuff like this can be looked up on the ever-expanding Modern Jazz Discography, which has detailed information about Clef/Verve sessions and releases in the 50s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinging Swede Posted June 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 We REALLY need a Mosaic of this stuff or some kind of cohesive/coherent plan from Verve (Japanese or otherwise, but wouldn't American Verve seem the proper -no pun iontended- place?), or else this is going to become one of those "exceptions to the rule" deals (ie - it ain't likely to be coming out anywhere else in MY lifetime) when it comes to my buying those Eurodomain discs. A Mosaic might be a be a real future option, but otherwise even if Japanese Verve reissued the remaining albums, or if we would get more LPRs from US Verve, they would be just straight LP reissues, and not have the few extra tracks that weren’t on the original albums. So if you want it all, and don’t want to wait too long, the “Eurodomain” releases aren’t too bad a way to go. Last year when Classics could go into 1952 I remember that the Basie installment covering that year was the one I was looking forward most to. And I wasn’t disappointed. It has the 22 first Clef tracks (including those that remained unreleased until Paradise Squat) in chronological order, and I thought the sound was very good. This material has also been released on an Ocium CD, as P.D. mentioned above. Ocium has already released a second CD covering the Clef recordings, but I don’t think the next Classics volume is far away. This is COUNT BASIE for crying out loud, and important material at that (among other things, plenty of Wardell Gray, if I read my histories correctly...). No Wardell Gray on the Verve sessions (lots of Vice-Prez and Lockjaw though!), but he is present on the three preceding Columbia sessions from 1950-51. They can also be had on a Classics CD (as well as one on Ocium) that I can fully recommend. Gene Ammons, Georgie Auld, Charlie Rouse and Serge Chaloff are among the other saxophonists that turn up on these sessions. Can’t forget Buddy DeFranco's excellent contributions either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.D. Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Jeez Swede.. this thread just got me to load the Classics Basie 52 into the changer, and it reminded me that if you want it all the Japanese issues will not have.. then I come back.. and you've already done it. These will not be on the Japanese reissues, if they, as usual, religiously follow the original albums. U.F.O. Like a Ship at Sea Not that either is a major requirement... Who the hell was / is Bixie Crawford anyway??? For some reason U.F.O. makes me think of Al Sears.. the thematic Riffs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Damn, a Mosaic of the Verve Basie material would be VERY VERY nice...can't imagine someone hasn't thought of it there and isn't working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.