don't fall off the bridge

[tooter]

There is an album by Tubby Hayes and Paul Gonsalves that includes the tune "Don't Fall Off the Bridge" but I can't find any reference to the composer. Does anyone have the album or know who wrote the tune? This is for my Ronnie Ross discography - he isn't on the record of course but the tune does figure in a BBC jazz session broadcast in 1965.

Thanks.

[bertrand]

Nothing at www.loc.gov or allmusic.com.

Bertrand.

[couw]

this tune was included on one of those recent compilations of British jazz.

Don't have it, but I can imagine there is some info there.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

The ONLY reason I know this is that I have the Gilles Peterson Impressed II and that Bev must not be around.

Tune was written by Hayes from the album 'Change of Setting' (World Record Club, ST 631) London '67.

Players are:

Hayes, Gonsalves,

Ray Nance: tpt

Tony Coe :alto

Jackie Sharpe: bari

Ronnie Scott: tenor

Tery Shannon: piano

Ronnie Stephenson:drms

John Lambe: bass

It is a GREAT tune!!! Phenoms just plying trades all around. I wonder about the rest of this album? Outstanding cast here but NO Ronnie Ross. (Very RR tune!)

[Man with the Golden Arm]

interesting PDF file.

[tooter]

You've done it again, V! No, I knew Ronnie Ross not there but he did play alto in a Tubby Hayes big band that did a broadcast on BBC radio May 17 1965 and they played this tune. I have the track from [Change of Setting] too but from an air shot, not the GP compilation. Having listened to it fairly carefully, I think it is a four tenor line-up (Hayes, Gonsalves, Scott and Coe, not necessarily in that solo order although it might be right - Hayes is first I'm sure) plus three rhythm only. Nance and Sharpe sat it out I guess - I can't hear them anyway.

So thanks a lot for the info and for the input, Bertrand and Couw too.

The album [Change of Setting] is rare I think, from the little I've seen. Nothing I could find at eBay.

[couw]

The album [Change of Setting] is rare I think, from the little I've seen. Nothing I could find at eBay.

I only saw some listings from ancient ebay sales. Judging from the prices paid, this is indeed a rare find.

[P.D.]

according to the Tubby Hayes discography by Barbara Schwartz, Tubbs did two record dates with Gonsalves.. I always used to think there was only one, the one on Columbia.. I believe the title was " Just Friends"

" Change of Setting" was a World Record Club issue

WRC was a mail order label in Britain.. I don't think they sold to the world. They started off with some marginal issues, but I bought them as the records were fairly inexpensive, and I didn't have much access to a great deal of jazz. Just about all their issues were rehashes of albums drom other companies. Later they got into some verves.. I remember the Gillespie / Stuff Smith issue.. it totally turned me on to Smith.( I still have that piece of vinyl.. plus some Lionel Hamptons)

I find it surprising that the " Change of Setting" album was only issued on the WRC label. The number of copies must have been relatively small..

Unfortunately it came out in '65... the year I left England for the USA so I , having given up my WRC subscription, did not get nor was aware of the record.

One sold on Ebay fairly recently, well in excess of $100.00 if I remember correctly.. too much for me to pay for used vinyl

Now perhaps if we whisper in Lonehill's ear.. both the sets with Gonsalves would make nice " bootleg".. They could call it " The Jack Sharpe Sessions"

Edited October 14, 2004 by P.D.

[tooter]

The Stan Tracey Website

LINER NOTES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JUST FRIENDS

EMI SX 6003 (Stereo SCX 6003)

Paul Gonsalves and Tubby Hayes

Personnel:

Paul Gonsalves (tenor saxophone), Tubby Hayes (alto and tenor saxophones, vibraphone), Jackie Sharpe (baritone saxophone), Jimmy Deuchar (trumpet and mellophone), Keith Christie (trombone), Les Condon (trumpet), Stan Tracey (piano), Lennie Bush (bass), Ronnie Stevenson (drums).

Tupa (Hayes - Gonsalves)

Amber Mood (Deuchar)

Just Friends (Klenner - Lewis)

Pedro's Walk (Hamer)

Baby Blue (Tracey)

Souraya (Hayes)

Mini Minor (Hamer)

On the original record, tracks 1 - 3 constituted Side One, tracks 4 - 7 Side 2. Tubby Hayes appears by kind permission of Fontana Records Ltd. Copyright 1965

This recording session was brought about mainly by mutual admiration - mutual admiration of two top tenor saxophonists, each for the other.

When the Duke Ellington Band played England and the Continent in 1964, it was unfortunate that Paul Gonsalves, a real cornerstone of the organisation, was taken ill immediately prior to the bank's opening concert at the Festival Hall. It was extremely fortunate for Duke Ellington that, seated in the stalls that night, eagerly waiting to hear the show, was Tubby Hayes. He was spotted, his help solicited, and the band took up the state with Mr. Hayes occupying the vacant seat in the saxophone section. At the end of the concert 'Tubs' rightly received a standing ovation for a difficult job expertly handled, but nowhere was the acclamation stronger than from the Ellington musicians themselves.

A few days later, Paul Gonsalves, now completely recovered, took the opportunity to pay a call upon Tubby Hayes at the club where he was working. They played a set or two together and before Paul left made a friendly resolution that one day, come what may, they would somehow make a record together.

The opportunity occurred sooner than they expected, for the following year, whilst the Duke Ellington Orchestra were touring the Continent, they met up with Hayes once again. To get Paul and Tubby into a recording studio looked impossible, but the sterling efforts of Jackie Sharpe who personally, and at no small cost to himself, undertook to arrange the recording, made it possible. He hired the services of some of Britain's best musicians, got them all to a studio, and supervised the complete session. The results are here for you to hear.

As usual, when musicians of a like calibre get together, the music flowed freely, and the session went through without a hitch. The other British musicians were all keenly in sympathy with the two principal soloists and provided a solid foundation for them to work on. The front line worked exceedingly well together: as Deuchar, Condon and Sharpe were all members of Hayes' first small band, and were easily familiar with each other's methods. Stan Tracey, the pianist, was also completely conversant with their ways, having played with all the rhythm section from time to time at Ronnie Scott's Club, where he is the resident pianist. It was exceedingly fortunate that Sharpe was able to obtain the services of Lennie Bush and Ronnie Stevenson, for these two members of the Jack Parnell Orchestra are always in such great demand, that to find them both with time to spare for such a recording at the same time was lucky and unusual.

The scores are, except for one tune, original manuscripts by British musicians - so too are all the arrangements

The opening track TUPA is an original composition by Gonsalves and Hayes - the title being derived from the first two letters of their names. Paul takes the first solo, Tubby the second. The eight bar exchanges between the two, give way to four bar exchanges, until the theme is faded out.

AMBER MOOD is a lovely melody composed and arranged by Jimmy Deuchar. Paul is the soloist throughout, except for eight bars from Deuchar's trumpet.

JUST FRIENDS is another Jimmy Deuchar arrangement. A bright, swingy tune, Paul comes on first, followed by Deuchar on mellophone, with Paul again to finish it off. Side Two opens with a new composition by Ian Hamer, PEDRO'S WALK. A Stan Tracey introduction leads to Paul and 'Tubs' swapping sixteen and then eight bar phrases. BABY BLUE was composed by pianist Tracey. It features some wonderful bass playing by Lennie Bush, and solos from both Paul and Tracey. SOURAYA is another Hayes original. He opens playing vibes, the only other soloist being Gonsalves.

The final track, MINI MINOR, is another arrangement and composition by Ian Hamer. After a twenty-four bar introduction by the rhythm team the soloists are Paul, Keith Christie and Stan Tracey, in that order.

© SINCLAIR TRAILL ('Jazz Journal')

The above filched from the Stan Tracey discography.

[tooter]

Is there a track "Change of Setting" on the album by Tubby "For Members Only"? I have seen one tracklist which included it. If so, can anyone who has the album tell me who wrote the tune? Was it Tubby himself? This seems quite likely.

[couw]

Is there a track "Change of Setting" on the album by Tubby "For Members Only"? I have seen one tracklist which included it. If so, can anyone who has the album tell me who wrote the tune? Was it Tubby himself? This seems quite likely.

For Members Only '67 Live

Tubby Hayes

Miles Music, 2002 (1967)

CD £11.99

Tubby Hayes (ts) with

Mick Pyne (p); Ron Mathewson (b); Tony Levin (d).

TRACKS:

[1] Dear John

[2] Dolphin Dance

[3] Dedicated To Joy

[4] Finky Minky

[5] This Is All I Ask

[6] Change Of Setting

[7] Interview (with Humphrey Lyttelton)

[8] Conversations At Dawn

[9] Nobody Else But Me

[10] You Know I Care

[11] Mexican Green

[12] For Members Only

[13] Second City Steamer

Includes links and an interview with Humphrey Lyttelton.

Recorded in London between 23rd January and 11th October 1967.

The liner notes include Peter King's essay Tubby Hayes Remembered.

source

no mention of composers I'm afraid...

[tooter]

Yes, Couw, that's the problem. I did see that site. I had a copy of the Barbara Schwarz Tubby Hayes discography but, foolishly, I gave it away. Maybe it gives composers - I can't remember. Maybe I'll get another one if I can find where Mole Jazz is now. Thanks for trying.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

FWIW, my CD of "For Members Only" is CDCHE10 issued by Mastermix Music Ltd.

Tracks are:

Dear Johnny B.

Finky Minky

This Is All I Ask

For Members Only

Dolphin Dance

You Know I Care

Mexican Green

Conversations At Dawn

Nobody Else But Me

Dedicated To Joy

Off The Wagon

Second City Steamer

Unfortunately (?), I picked this up used for a pittance and the booklet was missing, so that's everything I know from the back insert.

Mike

[tooter]

Thanks, Mike - I had seen the tracklist you give as well and I think it is the most common one. Just some examples include the tune I'm interested in. I still hope to get it from the Schwarz book - I should be able to lay hands on one soon.

[P.D.]

Schwartz lists Hayes compositions.. Change of Setting is listed as one of them.. according to her he only recorded it twice.. the Gonsalves date, and a tv show fromSep 2 1965, but the discography was published 1990, and although she sent me some extra info, I don't think it is up to date.

My " For Members" is the earlier one without ' Change" or the Hunph interview.

It plays for 70 mins, so the extra track, plus the interview can't be more than about 8 mins.

there is a track called " Off the Wagon", which is not on the reissue disk, Schwartz also credits this as a Hayes composition.

I don't have the Gonsalves, or the TV date, and therefore have no idea about the format of " Change".. never heard it..

Could it be possible that " Change" and " Off " are the same tune.. but titled differently?

Edited October 16, 2004 by P.D.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The (very fallible) Lord CD-ROM lists Off The Wagon as a track on a 1966 Dick Morrissey date (w/Harry South, Phil Bates, Bill Eyden), on Mexican Green by Tubby Hayes from 1967, on the album in question, and on a live set from 1969 by Hayes. [i believe a reference to a tune of this title by Tony Martucci in 1992 is unrelated.]

Change of Setting is only listed on the World Record Club issue.

As expected, the (nearly as fallible) Bruyninckx CD-ROM info is identical. There is an additional 1999 performance of a tune titled "Off The Wagon" by Theo Travis live at Ronnie Scott's. Now that might be unrelated, might not.

Mike

[P.D.]

The two versions of "Off the Wagon" I have are the same composition..

I don't have " Change Of Scene"

Perhaps someone with the newer CD version of " For Members Only" and "Mexican Green" ( or better still the WRC.. wanna swap a CDR????) could cross check the compositions to see if they are indeed different.

AS I noted my Master Mix "Members"lasts 70 mins , it has 12 tracks, the reissue claimed to have "new" music, but it too has only 12 music tracks, the extra appears to be the interview. The only difference is that one tune

Off the Wagon lasts 6.15.

This is not an earth shattering problem, but a discographical curiosity

[tooter]

P.D. - you have answered my question - thanks a lot. As you have the Tubby discography to hand, could I impose upon you even further and ask whether the list below contains any more Tubby compositions, according to Barbara?

Souriya

Take Your Partners For The Blues

Peace

The Jazz Scene

Have Jazz Will Travel

A Summer Stroll

K And J

Come On In

The Chord (Call?)

Theme

Mini Minor

Blues For Pipkins

Double Stopper

What`s Blue?

Commonwealth

Commonwealth Blues

The Inner Splurge

Fish Soup

These are the tunes in the discography for Ronnie Ross that I have listed as being Tubby compositions:-

Down in the Village

In the Night

Don’t Fall of the Bridge

100% Proof

as well as, of course, "Change of Setting" now.

I too have no version of "Change of Setting" so can throw no light on whether it is the same tune as "Off the Wagon". There is yet another version (13:09) of the latter, though, on Tubby's album "Quartet in Scandinavia" with Staffan Abeleen, NHOP and Alex Riel.

[P.D.]

The list below is all the compositions gcredited to Tubby in Barbara's discography ( I hope she doesn't get mad at me for copying them, if she stumbles on this thread )

They are by year of composition and were all recorded at least once unless the comments after the title states otherwise.

Obviously there have been releases since the disography was published so further recordings may have surfaced.. I have made my comments in italics.

There is no trace of 200% Proof in the list

The Storyville has as you point out another " Off the Wagon " Also C Minor Bird which could be his B Flat Mynah Bird but that is only a guess on my part I have no aural evidence.

Compositions by Tubby Hayes

1956 No I Woodyn’t

1957 Eyden Seek

Deb’s Delight

I Keep thinking it is Thursday

Plebus

Royal Ascott

The Serpent

Through the Night Roared the Overland Express

Vibe Rations

1958 After Tea

Blues for those who thus desire

Hook’s Way

The Monk

1959 Blue Hayes

Embers

Supper at Phil’s

The Late One

1960 R.T.H.

Tubbsville

1961 Cool For 8

Down in the Village ( 1 plus two tv broadcasts )

Early Morning Afterthought (not recorded )

Half a Sawbuck

In the Night ( 2 plus a tv broadcast )

Quintet Theme (2)

Soho Soul

Souriya (2)

Southern Suite parts 1 & 2

Take Your Partners for the Blues ( not recorded )

The Chase my comment.. this might be Southern Suite part 1

The Soho Steamer ( not recorded )

1962 Alone Together (2)

As Close as you are ( not recorded )

Modes and Blues ( 1 plus 1 tv broadcast )

Octupel Blast ( not recorded .. but it was on the 200% Proof CD

The Trumpets Have It ( not recorded )

Valves and Mallets ( not recorded )

1963 Blue Flues (1 and 1 tv broadcast )

Blue Strings ( not recorded )

Don’t Fall Off the Bridge (2)

Ricardo

The Syndicate ( only on a tv broadcast )

1964 Bailty’s Blues ( not recorded )

Lewis … ( not recorded )

Soft and Supple

Tupa

Voodoo ( only on a tv broadcast )

1965 Blues for Pipkins ( 2 tv broadcasts only )

Change of Setting ( 1 plus 1 tv broadcast )

Commonwealth Blues ( tv broadcast only )

100% Proof ( 2)

Theme ( tv broadcast only )

Tubby’s Theme my comment .. I suspect this might be same tune as the above

1966 Everybody Split ( renamed A Dedication to Joy)

A Taste of Money ( not recorded)

Blues in Orbit

Off the Wagon (2)

Quedado ( not recorded )

The Second City Steamer

When My Baby Gets Mad at Me

1967 Conversations at Dawn ( not recorded ) on the 200% Proof CD

Dear Johnny B ( 1 and 1 tv broadcast )

Finky Minky

For Members Only a second version on the 200% Proof CD

Mexican Green My comment.. this is on the For Members Only CD so was recorded at least two times, and not only once as listed by Barbara

Trenton Place

1968 Grits, beans and Greens ( not recorded ) But is on the 1969 live CD

Song for a Sad Lady ( 1 plus 1 tv broadcast )

The Inner Splurge ( tv broadcast only )

1969 Mainly for the Don ( not recorded ) on the Live 1969 CD

Rumpus ( not recorded )

1970 20 mins of music for a TV play..( Rest in Peace Uncle Fred by Alan Plater.. not recorded other than the show )

1971 She insulted me in Marakesh ( not recorded )

Solweig

1972 B Flat Mynah Bird ( not recorded )

Capiscum ( not recorded )

Lady Celia ( not recorded )

Sienna Red ( not recorded )

Unexpected Pleasures ( not recorded )

Note, the BB software wouldn't accept my " Word"pacing so the list is not as elegant as I would have liked.

Edited October 16, 2004 by P.D.

[tooter]

I'm not complaining about the formatting, P.D!!! So many questions answered in one fell swoop. Some were the ones I'd identified as possibles but others I had no idea were by Tubby so I've filled in a lot of gaps. Still some left of course but no hope of getting them all.

There is no recorded version of "B Flat Mynah Bird" then, I suppose, so no chance of comparing it. I have "C Minor Bird" only but I'm sure you're right and that is the Tubby composition too.

Should "Alone Together" be there? It seems strange that he should give it a title already used by Howard Dietz and Arthur Schwarz.

"The Inner Splurge" I have in the RR discography as a radio broadcast. Perhaps I've got this wrong and it was TV as the list shows. Can you tell if the date is the same? Here's the entry:-

Personnel: Harry South (conductor), Ian Hamer [out 3], Alan Downey [out 3], Hank Shaw [out 3], Les Condon [out 3] (trumpets), Chris Pyne [out 3], Dave Horler [out 3], Maurice Pratt [out 3] (trombones), Peter King (alto saxophone), Alan Skidmore [out 3], Brian Smith [out 3] (tenor saxophones), Ronnie Ross [out 3] (baritone saxophone), Mick Pyne (piano), Ron Mathewson (bass), Bill Eyden (drums).

Leader: Harry South (deputising for Tubby Hayes due to the latter`s illness)

Date: November 9 1970

BBC radio broadcast – Jazz Club November 29 1970

1. The Inner Splurge (Tubby Hayes)

2. Fish Soup

3. Round Midnight (Bernie Hanighen/Thelonious Monk/Cootie Williams)

4. Seven Steps To Heaven (Miles Davis/Victor Feldman)

5. Young And Foolish (Albert Hague/Arnold B. Horwitt)

6. Blues For Pipkins (Tubby Hayes)

Only "Fish Soup" without composer credit! That one could remain a mystery I suspect. But Harry S standing in for Tubby because of illness, and after that all compositions go unrecorded. I wonder if they ever will be.

[P.D.]

The listing for Inner Splurge is as follows

THE JAZZ SCENE

Intro Ronnie Scott

Tubby Hayes Big Band..16 musicians at the Ronnie Scott Club

Charles Fox Interviews Hayes

recorded 24 August 1969

Broadcast 30 Sep 1969

Blues For Pipkins

The Inner Splurge ( 5.51 )

Song For a Sad Lady (5.19 )

I Know You Care ( 5.29 )

Dear Johnny B ( 5.10 )

I Have " Inner Splurge" on the Master Mix CD date given as July 25 1969

Big band.. solos by Louis Stewart and Hayes.

No Ronnie Ross.. Harry Klein has the baritone chair.

This Cd no doubt came out after Barbara published... actually there are very few CD references in her discography.. most of the CD reissues of Tubby's recordings have been relatively recent.

Edited October 18, 2004 by P.D.

[tooter]

That clears it up, P.D. Thanks. Back to the grindstone...

[P.D.]

on Alone Together.. recorded twice ( via Barbara)

as part of a medeley in the Kirk set

23 june 1962.. so this is possibly not a Hayes tune.

My booklet to the Kirk set was lost in a flood, thank the big Guy, the CDs were not and frankly I'm not that familiar with the standard, though I'm sure I have another version somewhere

The other version is from 25 jan 1966 recorded by the Harry South big band.. Mercury MCL 20081

I do not have this record ( will happily take a tape or CDr if someone has... if Tubby solos on any of the tracks..) so I cannot attest to the authorship of the piece.

I suspec t that Barbara may have been mistaken here.

Discographical research is full of misleading dangers.. as you are no doubt aware.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The 1962 performance is of the Howard Dietz & Arthur Schwartz standard tune.

Mike

[P.D.]

That's what I assumed, perhaps the later Hayes recording is a different tune, causing the error in Barbara's listing.