mikeweil Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 (edited) Does anybody have this album or know about its details? Tracks, personnel etc.? Thanks! It's the first of Tjader's Fantasy LPs issued as a stereo only - may this be a compilation? Edited February 3, 2005 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Mike, I dont know this for sure, but i remember seeing a note somewhere that 8019 may have never been released. Other then that i cant be of anymore help to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 It was listed along side other releases on the back of some Tjader LP ... What confuses me is the "stereo only" remark - at that time they usually had mono releases as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 OTOH there are two copies for sale at GEMM.com with that title and number ... if I only could afford them tight now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 (edited) Mike, Maybe this solves the mystery. The 8019 was supposed to be released in 1962. After doing a little more digging i see that Latin For Dancers was issued in both nono(3374) and stereo(8374) in 1966. That kind of makes me think 8019 never came out. I was typing this while you posted the Gemm info. Are you sure they are the 8019 number? Edited February 3, 2005 by Bill Fenohr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Two independent sellers with the exact album title and that number - if it was only one, I'd believe your theory it never came out, but two ... I rule out typos - there was a Tjader Fantasy 8079, but that was a different album I have identified with all tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 I stumbled across that Fantasy LP 8374 too, but have it identified as Greatest Hits Vol. 2 - one source had the Latin For Dancers title, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Turns out I had the cover saved from the web in the depths of my harddisk - no more doubts this one was issued: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 I dug out some of my old Schwann catologs tonight to check for 8019. The oldest one i have is from Oct 1960 and it is listed as a stereo only release. Being that early in the stereo game, i do think that it probably was also issued in mono. Schwann made a number of entry errors in those days, and in many cases, never corrected them. So here is a case where i think the mono number never made it into the catolog. All of his other stereo lps listed, were also released in mono. I dont think in 1960 they had started putting tied over stereo cartridges in hi fi record players,which would allow you to play a stereo record on a mono player without tearing up the groove walls, not to mention not getting all the information to the speaker.So to put out a stereo only issue would have not made alot of sense then. Also in the one of the 1969 Schwann's it lists 8374 as Greatest Hits vol 2 and i would think that is correct. I guess we can only hope to run across an inside sleeve from that period that has the catolog numbers direct from Fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Turns out I had the cover saved from the web in the depths of my harddisk - no more doubts this one was issued: I have the LP - Fantasy 8019, stereo. According to the Jepsen discography, this was issued in mono on Fantasy 3221. Here's the kicker, however: Jepsen says this was recorded in August and September, 1954, yet it is a true stereo recording! Some of Fantasy's "stereo" releases are fake stereo, but not this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Fantasy 3221 was the "Tjader Plays Mambo" LP - that solves it!!! So it was given a different title and cover for the stereo release, although from the same photo session. This is what was on the 3221 LP - can you compare, please: - Cal Tjader Plays Mambo -: Dick Collins, Al Porcino, Charlie Walp, John Howell (trumpet) Cal Tjader (vibes, cencerro) Manuel Duran (piano) Carlos Duran (bass) Edgardo Rosales (congas, maracas) Bayardo Verlarde (timbales, cencero, bongos) Cal Tjader & Bob Searle (arrangers) Marines Memorial Theater, San Francisco, California, September 11, 1954 1506 Fascinating Rhythm Fantasy LP 3-18, Fantasy 3-221 1507 It Ain't Necessarily So - - 1510 Mambo Macumba - - 1511 I Concentrate on You - - - Cal Tjader Plays Mambo -: Cal Tjader (vibes, cencerro) Manuel Duran (piano) Carlos Duran (bass) Edgardo Rosales (congas, maracas) Bayardo Verlarde (timbales, cencero, bongos) vocals by band members -1 Marines Memorial Theater, San Francisco, California, September 21, 1954 Yesterdays Fantasy 3-18, Fantasy 3-221 Guarachi Guaro - - For Heaven's Sake - - Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen - - 3-18 was a 10" LP - for the 12" LP reissue they added four tracks from a later session: - Tjader Plays Mambo -: Cal Tjader (vibes) Manuel Duran (piano) Carlos Duran (bass) Luis Miranda (congas) Bayardo Velarde (timbales, bongos) San Francisco, California, February 21, 1956 Out Of Nowhere Fantasy 3-221, Fantasy EP 4061 The Lady Is A Tramp - - Have You Met Miss Jones - - East Of The Sun - - Thank you so much for clearing this up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 They don't seem to be exactly the same. 1. Fascinatin’ Rhythm (Gershwin) A 2. For Heaven’s Sake (Levey-Webb) B 3. Mambo Macumba (Tjader) A 4. Autumn Leaves (Kosma-Prevert-Mercer) B 5. This Can’t Be Love (Rodgers-Hart) B 6. Cherry (Redman) B 1. It Ain’t Necessarily So (Gershwin) A 2. I’ll Remember April (Raye-DePaul) B 3. Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen (Cahn-Chaplin) B 4. Yesterdays (Kern-Harbach) B 5. I Concentrate On You (Porter) A 6. Squeeze me (Waller-Williams) B A – August, 1954, San Francisco Dick Collins, John Howell, Al Porcino, Charlie Walp (tp), Cal Tjader (vbs/cencero), Manuel Duran (p), Carlos Duran (b), Edgardo Rosales (cga), Bayardo Verlarde (timbales/cencero/bgo) B – September, 1954, San Francisco Cal Tjader (vbs/cencero), Manuel Duran (p), Carlos Duran (b), Edgardo Rosales (cga), Bayardo Verlarde (timbales/cencero/bgo) I couldn't find "Cherry" or "Squeeze Me" in Jepsen, but the liner notes seem to indicate that they were made at the same session as the other "B" tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 (edited) Now that i see the songs on 8019, it is a combination of songs from Tjader Plays Mambo 3221 and Mambo With Tjader 3202 with the added track of Squeeze Me. I would guess they structured 8019 the way they did because that some of the tunes, the four that were orignally on EP for example, were not recorded in stereo. I dont own either of the OJC reissues of those two albums (shame on me). Are they in stereo or mono? Edited February 6, 2005 by Bill Fenohr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 (edited) Here are the complete session that were used for these LPs, above I posted only the tracks from 3-221. ----------- - Cal Tjader Plays Mambo -: Dick Collins, Al Porcino, Charlie Walp, John Howell (trumpet) Cal Tjader (vibes, cencerro) Manuel Duran (piano) Carlos Duran (bass) Edgardo Rosales (congas, maracas) Bayardo Verlarde (timbales, cencero, bongos) Cal Tjader & Bob Searle (arrangers) Marines Memorial Theater, San Francisco, California, September 11, 1954 1506 Fascinating Rhythm Fantasy LP 3-18, Fantasy 3-221 1507 It Ain't Necessarily So - - 1510 Mambo Macumba - - 1511 I Concentrate on You - - --------------------------------- - Cal Tjader Plays Mambo -: Cal Tjader (vibes, cencerro) Manuel Duran (piano) Carlos Duran (bass) Edgardo Rosales (congas, maracas) Bayardo Verlarde (timbales, cencero, bongos) vocals by band members -1 Marines Memorial Theater, San Francisco, California, September 21, 1954 Yesterdays Fantasy 3-18, Fantasy 3-221 Guarachi Guaro - - For Heaven's Sake - - Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen - - Mamblues Fantasy 3-202, Fantasy 3-326 Midnight Sun - - Sonny Boy -1 - - Cherry - - I'll Remember April - - This Can't be Love - - Tenderly - - Dearly Beloved - - Chloe -1 - - Lucero - - Bye Bye Blues - - Autumn Leaves - - -------------------- - Tjader Plays Mambo / Cal Tjader Quintet -: Cal Tjader (vibes) Manuel Duran (piano) Carlos Duran (bass) Luis Miranda (congas) Bayardo Velarde (timbales, bongos) San Francisco, California, February 21, 1956 Out Of Nowhere Fantasy 3-221, Fantasy EP 4061 The Lady Is A Tramp - - Have You Met Miss Jones - - East Of The Sun - - I Want To Be Happy Fantasy 3-232, Fantasy 8085 The Nearness Of You - - Pete Kelly's Blues - - A Minor Goof - - Undecided - - Philadelphia Mambo - - Flamingo - - Stompin' At The Savoy - - Laura - - Lullaby Of Birdland - - -------------------------- I can't find any other Tjader recording of Squeeze Me for Fantasy than the one on the 1957 Mary Stallings LP - but this seems to be Just squeeze me - a different tune. Is this a mistitling? Have you played the track and is this really that tune? If it is, the 8019 LP would be the only issue of this track! I have relistened to all the tracks from OJCCD-274-2 -the session with the trumpets is stereo, three of the four tracks from the September 21, 1954 session are stereo, but Guarachi Guaro which didn't make it to the 8019 LP is mono! The 1956 tracks are all mono, and the remaining titles from the session on Fantasy FCD-24730-2 are mono, too, although their source is given as the 8085 stereo issue, but it is faked stereo, just some reverb on the right channel, but tastefully done. But this is the only case where they recompiled for a stereo issue, AFAIK. All other stereo issues seem to feature the same tracks as the mono LPs. There is one stereo LP without a mono counterpoint, and that is Latino! Fantasy 8079 which compiles tracks from 4 different sessions with Mongo Santamaria and Willie Bobo as the common denominator. (edited to correct mono/stereo attribution errors) Edited February 8, 2005 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 (edited) This afternoon I wrote a table of the Tjader mono LPs from the 3-200 series and their corresponding stereo issues in the 8000 series. Some of the mono issues never had a stereo counterpoint. Obviously two were sessions recorded in genuine stereo in September 1954! But after that, I couldn't found any stereo recordings on the available CDs until the Blackhawk recordings on 3-241 from 1956. Table of mono issues in the 3-200 series and corresponding stereo issues in the 8000 series (including sideman dates): (- means there is no corresponding issue) mono issue corresponding stereo issue 3-202 Mambo With Tjader 8019 Latin For Dancers (partially) 3-204 Dave Brubeck Trio Vol. 1 - - 3-205 Dave Brubeck Trio Vol. 2 - - 3-211 Tjader Plays Jazz, Volume 1 - - 3-216 Ritmo Caliente - - 3-221 Tjader Plays Mambo 8019 Latin For Dancers (partially) 3-227 Cal Tjader Quartet - - 3-232 Cal Tjader Quintet 8085 Cal Tjader Quintet 3-233 Introducing Gus Mancuso - - 3-239 Dave Brubeck Octet - - 3-241 Jazz At The Blackhawk 8096 Jazz At The Blackhawk 3-250 Latin Kick 8033 Latin Kick 3-253 Cal Tjader - - 3-262 Mas Ritmo Caliente 8003 Mas Ritmo Caliente 3-264 Brew Moore - - 3-266 Cal Tjader/Stan Getz Sextet 8005 Cal Tjader/Stan Getz Sextet 3-271 San Francisco Moods 8017 San Francisco Moods 3-275 Latin Concert 8014 Latin Concert 3-278 Tjader Plays Jazz, Volume 1 (reissue) - - 3-279 Latin For Lovers 8016 Latin For Lovers 3-283 A Night At The Blackhawk 8026 A Night At The Blackhawk 3-289 Tjader Goes Latin 8030 Tjader Goes Latin 3-291 Mongo 8032 Mongo 3-295 Concert By The Sea 8038 Concert By The Sea 3-299 Concert On The Campus 8044 Concert On The Campus 3-307 Cal Tjader Quartet (reissue) - - 3-309 Demasiado Caliente 8053 Demasiado Caliente 3-310 West Side Story 8054 West Side Story 3-315 Live and Direct 8059 Live and Direct 3-325 Cal Tjader Plays, Mary Stallings Sings 8068 Cal Tjader Plays, Mary Stallings Sings 3-326 Mambo With Tjader (reissue) 9424 Mambo With Tjader 3-330 The Harold Arlen Songbook 8072 The Harold Arlen Songbook 3-331 Dave Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader Vol.1 8073 Dave Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader Vol.1 3-332 Dave Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader Vol.2 8074 Dave Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader Vol.2 - - 8079 Latino! 3-341 Concert by the Sea, Vol.2 8098 Concert by the Sea, Vol. 2 3-366 Cal Tjader's Greatest Hits 8366 , 4527 Cal Tjader's Greatest Hits 3-374 Cal Tjader's Greatest Hits, Vol. 2 8374, 4530 Cal Tjader's Greatest Hits, Vol. 2 Edited February 8, 2005 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 I would guess they structured 8019 the way they did because that some of the tunes, the four that were orignally on EP for example, were not recorded in stereo. I don't own either of the OJC reissues of those two albums (shame on me). Are they in stereo or mono? Now that I relistened to this material on headphones I think you're right, Bill. Only Guarachi Guaro from the 3-221 OJC conterpoint OJCCD-274-2 is mono, as well as the 1956 tracks. But the other 1954 quintet tracks from September 1954 that are available on OJCCD-271-2 Mambo with Tjader are all mono, even those supposedly issued in stereo on the 8019 LP. Stereojack, have you re-listened to the LP: Are all tracks in stereo? And that Squeeze Me track puzzles me, as it isn't mentioned anywhere else. I will have to get me a copy of 8019 some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 If they recorded in genuine stereo as early as 1954, they were pretty advanced at Fantasy ... and it sounds great! But then why did they stop recording in stereo? It is known that stereo tape machines in those days were not very reliable, and there was not much of a market for stereo LPs in these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I can't find any other Tjader recording of Squeeze Me for Fantasy than the one on the 1957 Mary Stallings LP - but this seems to be Just squeeze me - a different tune. Is this a mistitling? Have you played the track and is this really that tune? If it is, the 8019 LP would be the only issue of this track! I have listened to the track, and although the composers are given as Waller & Williams (composers of Squeeze Me), the tune is actually Just Squeeze Me, the Ellington composition. I don't have the Stallings LP - is the version on that an instrumental? If so, we have solved the mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Stereojack, have you re-listened to the LP: Are all tracks in stereo? Yes, they are all true stereo. Most unusual. We have all encountered isolated stereo recordings that predate the acknowledged (late 1957) stereo era, but this is the first time I've found one on Fantasy. And while I'm on the subject, there is more than one OJC that plays mono where the original LP was stereo: Dave Brubecks's "Reunion" (Fantasy 8007) and Gigi Gryce "& the Jazz Lab Quintet" (Riverside 1110) are two that come to mind. Both were recorded in early 1957. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I have listened to the track, and although the composers are given as Waller & Williams (composers of Squeeze Me), the tune is actually Just Squeeze Me, the Ellington composition. I don't have the Stallings LP - is the version on that an instrumental? If so, we have solved the mystery. I haven't heard the Stallings LP so far - missed the OJC LP reissue several years ago. The CD is due out in April, I will get me this at once. There may be an instrumental or two on that LP. The Stallings LP was 3-325 / 8068 - that seems too far removed from 8019, unlees they held back release for a years or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Probably nothing - but Lord CDROM shows Brubeck recorded Squeeze Me with Tjader for Fantasy way back in 1950. And Tjader recorded Just Squeeze Me for Fantasy in 1961, live at the Black Hawk, it seems. Like I said, probably nothing. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Probably nothing - but Lord CDROM shows Brubeck recorded Squeeze Me with Tjader for Fantasy way back in 1950. And Tjader recorded Just Squeeze Me for Fantasy in 1961, live at the Black Hawk, it seems. Well, not quite nothing .... I doubt they used the Brubeck Trio version for a later stereo LP - but this is again the Ellington tune, not the Waller/Williams Now that 1961 version ... I thought the last Tjader Blackhawk recording of his first tenure with Fantasy had taken in place in 1960 - the Live And Direct and Demasiado Caliente LPs had material from this session. But Bruyninckx lists just this one track "Just Squeeze Me" as issued on a Fantasy LPS (!) 8057, and I have no idea what this LP was. The Stallings LP was recorded in 1961, OTOH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I just typed in Fantasy 8057 at GEMM.com, and what did I get? An album titled Mambo with Tjader ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 I finally located and ordered a copy of Fantasy 8019 ..... I will post my comments after listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Okay, I received my copy of Fantasy 8019 today ..... All tracks are in true stereo, tracks are as listed by Stereojack in his post above. The Squeeze Me, although credited to Waller/Williams on the label, is really (a very nice arrangement of) the Ellington tune. This track was never issued on any other Fantasy release I know of. Mary Stallings, BTW, also sings the Ellington tune. The cover photo posted above is by Chuck Stewart, of all people ..... Okay, the next mysterious Tjader item crossed of my list . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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