Viva Prog Rock

[A Lark Ascending]

Listened to this for the first time since the late 70s yesterday.

Enjoyed it far more than I did at the time. I remember the whole album was played on the radio just before release - a group of mates sat, listened and we were all horrified. I bought a copy...just in case...but never warmed to it.

Enjoyed it far far more yesterday. It doesn't seem that well recorded, Anderson's voice seems strained and it lacks the melting melodies (apart from 'Soon') that were at the heart of the group previously. The songs themselves sound even more cut-and-paste than usual - fragments stiched together.

But Steve Howe seemed to be having a wail of a time - it really does seem to be his record with a level of grittiness and menace he had rarely shown before. Maybe it was their 'punk' record, two years before punk!!!!!

Happy to have been reaquainted.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Bev Stapleton

[7/4]

But Steve Howe seemed to be having a wail of a time - it really does seem to be his record with a level of grittiness and menace he had rarely shown before. Maybe it was their 'punk' record, two years before punk!!!!!

I always felt it was his reaction to early Mahavishnu, maybe their heaviest album.

[A Lark Ascending]

But Steve Howe seemed to be having a wail of a time - it really does seem to be his record with a level of grittiness and menace he had rarely shown before. Maybe it was their 'punk' record, two years before punk!!!!!

I always felt it was his reaction to early Mahavishnu, maybe their heaviest album.

Mahavishnu had stunned everyone a couple of years earlier. I'd say the opening few minutes of 'Close to the Edge' come from that. Maybe his playing on 'Relayer' was taking that further...it just sees dirtier, less neat than previously. Which might be McLaughlin again.

I recall interviews with Phil Collins c.1974 where he was insistent that 'more Mahavishnu' was the direction he wanted Genesis to go in. The strange time-signatured, long instrumental section towards the end of 'Supper's Ready' was his response. Ironic when you consider the direction that both he and they eventually took. But then Mahavishnu became unfashionable almost as quickly as they became flavour of the month.

[jazzbo]

Opeth however are beyond comparison.

x2

Opeth is an astonishingly good band.

[Shawn]

Maybe not Prog Rock....but I think this band had some influence in that area...

Gary Burton Quartet - Berlin 1967

[7/4]

But then Mahavishnu became unfashionable almost as quickly as they became flavour of the month.

Yes...& prog-rock too a while longer.

Maybe not Prog Rock....but I think this band had some influence in that area...

Gary Burton Quartet - Berlin 1967

probably a bigger influence on Pat Metheny!

[7/4]

I always loved this artwork:

Camel - Moonmadness

spinning this right now.

melodic, no guitar/keyboard/percussion heroes on this one.

[A Lark Ascending]

Camel I could never cope with. They do that thing that drives me nuts in the weaker areas of prog-rock (and metal!) - play a phrase, then play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

I really wanted to like the line-up with Richard Sinclair, but...

[7/4]

Camel I could never cope with. They do that thing that drives me nuts in the weaker areas of prog-rock (and metal!) - play a phrase, then play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

I really wanted to like the line-up with Richard Sinclair, but...

some call it minimalism, some call it prog..it's just some lightweight instrumental pop.

Edited June 20, 2010 by 7/4

[7/4]

On Relayer:

The songs themselves sound even more cut-and-paste than usual - fragments stiched together.

I thought that was the classical influence, The Rite of Spring and Petrushka are like that too. Relayer may be the album where they got the closest to that music, they barely got there* with Wakeman in the band.

*there = sort of like Stravinsky. they opened most concerts with a recording of the Firebird, but did they really show his influence in their music?

Edited June 21, 2010 by 7/4

[Shawn]

They do that thing that drives me nuts in the weaker areas of prog-rock (and metal!) - play a phrase, then play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

...unless I'm mistaken, this perfectly sums up the blues. play a phrase, play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

[Jim Alfredson]

They do that thing that drives me nuts in the weaker areas of prog-rock (and metal!) - play a phrase, then play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

...unless I'm mistaken, this perfectly sums up the blues. play a phrase, play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

Right and prog rock is supposed to get away from traditional forms, so perhaps that's Bev's beef with Camel.

Concerning Relayer, it took me a long time to warm up to it. Yes, I think the quality of the recording itself is partly to blame but I get the feeling now that the band wanted it to be aggressive and gritty and the recording reflects that. It has some great melodies in there but they tend to get buried in the instrumentation, which again may be the point considering the subject matter of the lyrics.

I wish they had done another record with Moraz. What did he do afterwards? Anything worthwhile?

[Shawn]

I wish they had done another record with Moraz. What did he do afterwards? Anything worthwhile?

The Moody Blues primarily.

[A Lark Ascending]

They do that thing that drives me nuts in the weaker areas of prog-rock (and metal!) - play a phrase, then play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

...unless I'm mistaken, this perfectly sums up the blues. play a phrase, play it again; play another phrase, then play it again.

Well, I'm sure it happens in any instrumental music where the players improvisational abilities (or imaginations!) are limited. I'm talking mainly here about instrumental passages presented as 'solos' - the skilled improvisers seem almost incapable of playing the phrase the second time without varying it to a greater or lesser extent.

There are a number of fascinating cheap box sets from Island, Harvest and Decca that collect examples of the wide swathe of the music of the late 60s and early 70s. An awful lot of it has not worn well - wooden rhythm sections, dreadful vocals (and lyrics) and those repeated phrases I'm talking about. In fact I played a disc from one of the two Decca sets a few days back - on two occasions I was taken aback at how wooden the tracks sounded. Camel on both occasions.

There's a reason the likes of King Crimson, Yes and Genesis are still being listened to and these chaps aren't.

[A Lark Ascending]

On Relayer:

The songs themselves sound even more cut-and-paste than usual - fragments stiched together.

I thought that was the classical influence, The Rite of Spring and Petrushka are like that too. Relayer may be the album where they got the closest to that music, they barely got there* with Wakeman in the band.

Perhaps. Though with Stravinsky's 'cut and paste' there's a melodic, harmonic or rhythmic logic that unites the disparate parts. They might seem episodic but it hangs together and I'm sure anyone with a score and an analytical brain could trace the links. I don't get that sense with Yes (understandably...they were working in a quite different environment) - seems more 'This sounds good, lets add this bit, how about this."

[Shawn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfISkpibSCY

One of the ELP tracks I actually like, never seen this video before either. Lake looked very young.

[7/4]

On Relayer:

The songs themselves sound even more cut-and-paste than usual - fragments stiched together.

I thought that was the classical influence, The Rite of Spring and Petrushka are like that too. Relayer may be the album where they got the closest to that music, they barely got there* with Wakeman in the band.

Perhaps. Though with Stravinsky's 'cut and paste' there's a melodic, harmonic or rhythmic logic that unites the disparate parts. They might seem episodic but it hangs together and I'm sure anyone with a score and an analytical brain could trace the links. I don't get that sense with Yes (understandably...they were working in a quite different environment) - seems more 'This sounds good, lets add this bit, how about this."

It always sounded natural to me. I remember seeing on the net - years ago- how someone had analysed Close to the Edge and decided it was in the same form as a sonata/concerto. I don't know enough about that sort of thing to know if it's true.

[7/4]

Nice vid of Knife Edge! I love that first album.

[Tom Cat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8V-ueepk9s

Brilliant

Yes!!! Opeth, what do you tell me about damnation? great album

I always loved this artwork:

Camel - Moonmadness

spinning this right now.

melodic, no guitar/keyboard/percussion heroes on this one.

yeah nice, not his best but still good, i like chord change on that

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

hey bev, THIS was yes at their most punk>>>> "Release Release" (1978)!! omg!!!!!

[A Lark Ascending]

Nice vid of Knife Edge! I love that first album.

Yes, easily their best. Lots of instrumental piano/bas/drums with no added synths. And where the synth does come in, it is such a steam-driven thing it sounds quite glorious. Though large swathes of that album are lifted from classical music. I didn't know that at the time so it hardly mattered; still sounds good now.

Common practice at the time. You get the impression that the classically trained keyboard players were stitching in their practice pieces from college!

Made for some nice 'now where did I hear that before' moments later on. 'La Cathedrale Engloutie' (Debussy Preludes) in particular, which was used on a Renaissance album. I think they 'borrowed' a whole chunk of a Beethoven piano sonata another album.

hey bev, THIS was yes at their most punk>>>> "Release Release" (1978)!! omg!!!!!

Is there a link there, chewy?

[Aggie87]

Any Yes fans ever hear the Buggles' version of "Into the Lens" (aka I am a Camera)? Interesting to hear how Horn/Downes re-did the song after doing it on Drama with Howe/Squire/White...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcjHi6-bpdQ

Here is Yes' version (w/cheesy homemade video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvz6cUWsw9w

[Shawn]

I really like the Drama album. Especially all the extra bonus cuts on the reissue. There's a great instrumental called Song #4 (Satellite) with some killer Howe.

The other reason I like that album, is because the majority of the sound is the power trio, Howe & Squire really crank it up on that album. Machine Messiah has some brilliant segments.

[PHILLYQ]

Opeth however are beyond comparison.

x2

Can either of you recomend a disc or two of Opeth for a newbie? Many thanks.

[jazzbo]

I"m neither of those two, but I'd highly recommend Damnation, Watershed, or Ghost Reveries.