Blue Train SACD-opinions

[Shrdlu]

Dmitry, re the multimedia stuff on the "Ultimate" CD, I could never get it to run properly with Windows 98, but my son's computer has XP; if you set XP to emulate Windows 95, with fewer colors (I forget how many colors) it runs perfectly.

Hey, y'all. If the various CD versions of this album (an album which is discussed far out of proportion with its actual importance, in my opinion), why not get the Classics LP and be done with it? Or, grub around for an old BN LP - many copies were sold and I would imagine that decent copies can still be found for a reasonable price.

I am happy with both the JRVG and the "Ultimate" CDs, and will never venture into the world of SACD. These CDs, and the TOCJ range, will more than suffice for the rest of my time here on earth.

[Guest GregM]

I am happy with both the JRVG and the "Ultimate" CDs, and will never venture into the world of SACD.

You will undoubtedly enter that world as more key catalog segments are released as single-inventory hybrids. Consider: anyone buying the rolling stones Hot Rocks or dylan's blood on the tracks from here on out will be buying an SACD whether they want to or not.

Why Blue Note didn't produce the BT SACD as the RVG disc is totally mystifying. It's like releasing an Ultimate BT CD with video content and then another one identical but without the video content. Same exact sounds whether the video is accessed or not.

Edited August 19, 2003 by GregM

[Shrdlu]

Well, I just said that as my jazz collection is just about complete now. Most recent acquisitions have been TOCJ upgrades of older BN CDs.

I won't be wanting any Rolling Stones albums, thanks. I hated their music in the 60s when it was new (long before I got saved), and I hate it now. Mainly because, purely from a musical viewpoint, the stuff is garbage, but also because I don't especially like a guy who writes a piece called "Sympathy For The Devil" (or was it Symphony?).

[Guest GregM]

Gonna buy any of the remastered Dylan albums? Then you'll be buying SACDs. Overall though it seems like your record collecting days are winding down which means you won't be buying much of any music. Too bad, though, as anyone enjoying the RVG and TOCJ upgrades over the original domestic BN titles would enjoy SACD immensely.

[Claude]

Blue Note Says they Won't be Doing any SACDs In The Near Future

[Morganized]

Do not know how I missed this thread originally. I had occasion to A/B The Ultimate Blue Train and Blue Train RVG recently at the record shop. I was determined to see if I could hear any improvement. The conditions were very good. Identical CD players, headphones etc. I must adimit that I agree with what many on the board have previously said about the remastering. The RVG sounded "bright" but not in a necessarily improved way. In the end I determined that Ultimate BT was the more natural sounding of the two. My criteria was to try to determine which of the two recordings sounded more lifelike. I think the RVG sound was over produced to the point where it did not sound like you would expect to hear in a live performance.

Just my opinion. I do not know what the SCAD sounds like but I am glad that it is nto something Blue Note is going to pursue at this time. It is for anti-copying purposes in my book and has little to do with significant improvement in sound quality. A long time ago I read where the record companies had learned to add a second layer of the exact same recorded material on top of the original but slow it done a fraction of a second. It supposedly resulted in a fuller sound but the real beauty was that it could not easily be duplicated. The original research had nothing to do with improved sound. I suspect that SACD is the resulting technology from that early research with maybe some extra tweaks. The couple of SACD's that I have heard do not have a fuller sound, but a slightly muddied sound, IMHO.

I am sure there are folks on this board that know more about this than I do and I am not trying to pick a fight with Greg or anyone else over this hotly debated format. But everyone has a right to an opinion and in my opinion Blue Note is making the right decision.

[DrJ]

Morganized, I'm not sure how your post relates to the issue at hand - you won't be able to even hope to hear any of the possible advantages of SACD without actually hearing the SACD layer. It isn't just "slowing down" the regular CD layer, it's a whole other technology that allows a much higher resolution signal with expanded dynamic range.

Some times I will agree that on certain sessions I don't hear a dramatic improvement, but for most A/B'd, there is a sizeable difference from regular CD layer. I'll be interested to see if I still feel this way once I pick up a higher end standard CD player that upsamples etc - but I suspect there will still be a difference, because no matter how much you upsample you're still limited ultimately by the resolution of the source signal.

So that brings me to the BLUE TRAIN SACD which I finally was able to pick up. So far, I'm pretty impressed and not sure what all the flap was about. It sounds pretty outstanding to me...definitely some improvements in the sonic detail over both the ULTIMATE CD and the CD layer on this disc (which is quite good), it's much more like the sound of a real trombone for example when Curtis Fuller plays, an instrument that is particularly hard to capture well on recordings unless they're really good ones. As I've observed for most SACDs, the sound is just, well, "smoother" or rounder and more vinyl-like - there none of the harshness you get even with some very well done CD remasterings, no doubt a result of the DSD technology. But with the added bonus of the incredible detail you get with digital and which I find lacking in even very high end vinyl.

Perhaps there were some "lemon" versions that got out early, but this copy sure sounds great and I'm thrilled to have it, particularly at $14 something - a bargain given you can enjoy it in the listening room or on the road in the car player.

Edited April 23, 2004 by DrJ