jazzkrow Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 As someone who has both the lp and CD of "Blue Train", I've been wondering if it is truly a "must buy" to get the SACD version being released tomorrow? Looking forward to hearing just "how good" the SACD is... Thanks, folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 I haven't yet heard this ---and would only be able to report on the cd layer anyway. . . . But I do have a copy of the JRVG and really like the remastering there best of the cd versions before it, even though the stereo spread is a little on the narrow side for most tastes. . . I bet this is widened in this release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 But I do have a copy of the JRVG and really like the remastering there best of the cd versions before it, even though the stereo spread is a little on the narrow side for most tastes. . . I fully agree that the JRVG is the best of the Blue Train reissues. I don't have any problem with the narrower stereo of many of the JRVGs. I don't know if I will pick up the SACD. Is it mutichannel? Too many of the older recordings in mutichannel sound unnatural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 I don't know if I will pick up the SACD. Is it mutichannel? Too many of the older recordings in mutichannel sound unnatural. Description of Blue Train on the Blue Note site. CDUniverse is selling it for $12.59 plus shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 (edited) I have doubts that the the info on the Blue Note website is accurate. This specialized SACD page says Blue Train is stereo only, while the other Blue Note SACDs also have a multichannel mix: Blue Note Sets June 10th For Five SACD Releases Edited June 9, 2003 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 Cuscuna told me a while back that "Blue Train" would be stereo. I agree with Claude that the Blue Note web site is most likely in error. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 This site as well lists it as a Stereo http://www.sacdinfo.com/showtitle.php?title=918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I have the original mono release (W.63rd deepgroove) of 'Blue Train'. This one is still way above the various CD reissues I have heard including the Ultimate Blue Train that I bought for its additional alternate tracks. I'll skip the SACD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 (edited) what timing....i just received the JRVG of "blue train" and compared it last evening to my regular, somewhat noisey tape wise, TOCJ pressing. help me out here y'all. this thing sounds like ready mix tinnitus. open, pour, listen if you can, take three aspirin and play the TOCJ in the morning. ouch!!!! yes the spread and all that is fine but i find that kind of thing a bit more easy to rectify within one's sytsem than having to kill all the treble to make this van gelderized version even tolerable. and who needs to hear lee morgan with warmth anyway? sure, drew is a bit more propped up and chambers does sound sweeter but any of his masters with philly joe have that shrill-ness that i'm sure was not intended back in '57. van gelder has turned this thing from the nice old "blue" of what i imagine that deep groove sounds like into the aural equivalent of those obnoxious icey lights on that BMW following me home. seriously!! how can you guys say you like this???? BTW, i bought it for the cover anyway! please help me out. is this a polarity flipper? Edited June 12, 2003 by Man with the Golden Arm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 It IS a polarity flipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 (edited) I have never been able to hear that. I've only compared it so far to the original US cd release and the Ultimate release. I guess I should have qualified that in my first post on this thread. Though I have preferred JRVGs to TOCJs. . . I just like the JRVG/RVG sound. Edited June 10, 2003 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzkrow Posted June 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 Anybody bought/ or heard the Blue Train SACD yet? Still wondering about how good it sounds!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 I've got it and surprise!...it sound like RVG up to no good again! Still way, way too much treble. And I've come to the conclusion...THIS IS JUST A CRAPPY RECORDING!!! Not only the trebly sound, but there is just something WRONG with the reverb added to ALL of the horns, especially the trumpet and trombone. It is most evident, to me, on the title track (both takes). I was really hoping that DSD, as it is not PCM but PSM rather, would be able to do something about this as I was hoping it was not in the original recording but some type of digital artifact in the PCM chain. Now, I'M CONVINCED that this just is a bad RVG, that he was having reverb problems that day. The text available on the disc reads "The Ultimate Blue Train". But I don't believe it contains any multimedia, and has no reference to a web-link offering such. So, to me, it's just "Blue Train" with two alternate takes. I really wish my display on my SACD player read just "Blue Train", instead of just "The Ultimate" after it has finished scrolling... So, the people who don't like RVGs and JRVGs, you've been warned: You will find much to not like here. (Hans, this means you! ). Conversely, I also picked up Black Dahlia & Come Away With Me, both of which are top drawer. Especially Black Dahlia. Someone's comment on another thread about someone at Blue Note saying that the SACD of Norah's is no big improvement over the regular CD may not be too off mark. Don't get me wrong; it's sounds marvelous. But it's very spare instrumentation was represented well on the regular CD. The multichannel mix isn't that big of a deal. But Black Dahlia is a tour-de-force!!! I like this set, as it seems like a movie score without the movie! The sound is sumptuous (sp?)!!! This multichannel mix really makes use of the entire surround setup. That's all for now...hope I helped. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzkrow Posted June 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Thanks Scott for the review! Re: Black Dahlia, a question: How is just the SACD stereo mix?-as I use only the Stereo layer on my SACD player-I have only 2 speakers, so multi-channel is of no use to me. Thanks, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Jeff, I haven't listened to that mix yet. I'll try it and will post my findings, unless someone beats me to it. I'd be willing to bet that it's gonna be great as well, as the original cd had great sound from the start... Oh, and BTW, I do like the "A Love Supreme" SACD Rudy did. I don't have a real grudge against his work; some of his remasters are good, some are less than perfect. I can try to ignore these things; I was able to enjoy the Blue Train SACD whilst not giving it total concentrated listening. Ya know, while puttering around the house, etc... Oh, and I have relistened to the MCH mix of "Come Away With Me" and there's some things happening toward the rear channels. Like Norah's piano seems to hang somewhere in between front and rear, probably a little more to the rear. And there are guitars in the rear channels as well. The mix sounds great, it's just a really mellow recording. It does have quite an ambience...lot's of air...but it's soooo melloooow. It's good music for headin' to bed. Sleepy-time time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 So, the people who don't like RVGs and JRVGs, you've been warned: You will find much to not like here. (Hans, this means you! ). Thanks for the warning, Scott B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn·m Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Just got my copy. haven’t listened to it yet, but… The bottom of the tray card reads; “This is a Hybrid SACD designed to play in both CD and SACD players, as well as SACD-compatible DVD players. This product is provided AS IS, without any express or implied warranties.” (uppercase “AS IS” is BN’s doing). Boy, that sure read like a hearty slap in the face. Considering Crest’s trouble with cracking spindle-holes, I’ll be replacing the original tray with an older, softer black plastic tray –just to be on the safe side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn·m Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 (edited) Well, Blue Train is rendered with more body and detail on the SACD layer, but Parkertown’s right; there’s an unnatural treble boost. Beyond that, RVG is back to his old over-compression tricks. This also goes toward what Parkertown describes as reverb artifacts: Reverb may not be apparent when Lee Morgan plays relatively quietly, but it increases as his playing becomes louder. But compression makes Lee’s playing sound like it’s all at the same volume so it’s as if somebody is arbitrarily switching reverb on and off. I just don’t understand why RVG is doing this. I suppose an argument can be made for Redbook’s resolution benefiting from high compression, but that argument doesn’t hold water with DSD. What’s more? McMaster’s ’97 Ultimate has superior dynamic range. I’ve compressed the following image about as far as I can to conserve bandwidth for our hosts. The top graphic shows the left and right channels of the SACD layer of “Blue Train,” while the lower image displays the left and right channels of Ultimate’s “Blue Train.” Both were recorded through analog outputs. Edited June 14, 2003 by kartoffel·hadi blues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mnytime Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 (edited) I don't suppose you feel like explaining what we are looking at? I can see the differences but what they represent exactly I am not sure. Edited June 14, 2003 by Mnytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn·m Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 (edited) A graphic representation of the entire “Blue Train” song from start to finish. Loud moments reach toward vertical boundaries (1s) while quieter moments stay closer to center lines (0s). Er, does this help? Edited June 14, 2003 by kartoffel·hadi blues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STAX Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 I heard the sacd last week and I was not as impressed as I thought I would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 I've got it and surprise!...it sound like RVG up to no good again! Still way, way too much treble. And I've come to the conclusion...THIS IS JUST A CRAPPY RECORDING!!! It's not true. I used to have a 70s blue label Stereo pressing and it was excellent, much better than the cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 (edited) The only CD issue that sounds decent compared to the others, at least in my opinion, is the TOCJ. Edited June 14, 2003 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.D. Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Just got my copy. haven’t listened to it yet, but… The bottom of the tray card reads; “This is a Hybrid SACD designed to play in both CD and SACD players, as well as SACD-compatible DVD players. This product is provided AS IS, without any express or implied warranties.” (uppercase “AS IS” is BN’s doing). Boy, that sure read like a hearty slap in the face. Considering Crest’s trouble with cracking spindle-holes, I’ll be replacing the original tray with an older, softer black plastic tray –just to be on the safe side. Just out of curiosity, does this mean that you don't see the "AS IS " statement until you open and presumably remove the disc from the case?? Seems a liitle odd if so. Shouldn't such statements be on the outside of the package??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 (edited) The only CD issue that sounds decent compared to the others, at least in my opinion, is the TOCJ. Hans, does that include the Mobile Fidelity CD? I have it and I find the sound to be very good. The same with Art Blakey "Night in Tunesia" reissued by MoFi (these are CDs from the early 90's). Both sessions seem to have been recorded very loud, so there is slight bass distortion and tape saturation on loud passages, and a certain lack of dynamics. However the treble response is far less agressive than on RVG's remasterings. Edited June 14, 2003 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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