why didnt wes m. record as a sideman

[Guest ariceffron]

besides the mastersounds, etc--- also does anyone have a disco. link?

[Free For All]

[robviti]

Wes recorded several times with Lionel Hamptom's Quintet and Orchestra from 1948-1950. In addition to the Nat Adderley date already cited, he appeared on Jon Hendricks's A Good Git-Together (World Pacific Records WP 1283) and Harold Land's West Coast Blues (Riverside 920).

wes montgomery discography project

Edited February 13, 2005 by jazzshrink

[vibes]

[Christiern]

• Now that we have established the fact that Wes did record as a sideman, perhaps we might wonder why Charlie Christian only recorded as a sideman.
  

[MartyJazz]

Cannonball with Victor Feldman, Ray Brown, Louis Hayes and WES:

[JSngry]

• Now that we have established the fact that Wes did record as a sideman, perhaps we might wonder why Charlie Christian only recorded as a sideman.
  

Death?

[Jim R]

[kh1958]

I was wondering if Wes recorded as a co-leader?

[Jim R]

I dunno. It's listed in all the guides I have under Jackson only...

[Christiern]

• Now that we have established the fact that Wes did record as a sideman, perhaps we might wonder why Charlie Christian only recorded as a sideman. 
  
  
  

Death?

That's an easy, but, IMO, not convincing explanation.

John Hammond (who admitted to "discovering" Christian after Mary Lou Williams pointed him out), often spoke of having recognized his "genius" immediately. Well, John also had the power to do something about it, besides placing Christian with his brother-in-law. Why didn't he? Why did he not give Charlie Christian sessions of his own? I once asked him about this and he hemmed and hawed before giving me some lame explanation that had to do with the difficulty of interesting a record company in an unknown artist. That, of course, was a lot of BS. Christian was o the NY scene for some two years, which would have given John (or someone else) ample time to recognize his uniqueness and give him the prominent role his artistry deserved.

Sorry Aric, I did not mean to sidetrack your thread, but you asked a question, it was answered, and I did not see a great future for the thread. Mind you, there isn't much more to be said about Charlie Christian's permanent relegation to sideman status, so we may simply have hit a dead end. BTW, I think we can agree that Wes and Christian both deserve a thread dedicated to their work.

Edited February 13, 2005 by Christiern

[mikeweil]

That, of course, was a lot of BS. Christian was o the NY scene for some two years, which would have given John (or someone else) ample time to recognize his uniqueness and give him the prominent role his artistry deserved.

I can't help but smell a bit of exploitation - AFAIK several tunes copyrighted under Goodman's name were at least co-composed by Christian.

[Jim R]

BTW, I think we can agree that Wes and Christian both deserve a thread dedicated to their work.

I noticed earlier that member "O37" was reading here, and that reminded me that I wanted to check for previous discussions here about C.C. There ain't much (no "C.C. Corner", at least). There's this, which is probably a good start: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10977

[JSngry]

• Now that we have established the fact that Wes did record as a sideman, perhaps we might wonder why Charlie Christian only recorded as a sideman. 
  
  
  
  

Death?

That's an easy, but, IMO, not convincing explanation.

John Hammond (who admitted to "discovering" Christian after Mary Lou Williams pointed him out), often spoke of having recognized his "genius" immediately. Well, John also had the power to do something about it, besides placing Christian with his brother-in-law. Why didn't he? Why did he not give Charlie Christian sessions of his own? I once asked him about this and he hemmed and hawed before giving me some lame explanation that had to do with the difficulty of interesting a record company in an unknown artist. That, of course, was a lot of BS. Christian was o the NY scene for some two years, which would have given John (or someone else) ample time to recognize his uniqueness and give him the prominent role his artistry deserved.

That's an equally easy explanation.

And a helluva lot more convincing!

[John L]

I don't know that Aric's question is all that simple. Wes' sideman apprearances were extremely few if compared to other top jazz guitarists of the time. Why is that the case?

Didn't you work with him at Riverside, Chris? Was he difficult for other musicians to work with? Did he play hard to get?

Now if only those recordings as a sideman with Coltrane would see the light of day!

[Guest ariceffron]

yes what he said-- why didnty wes make too many sideman dates?

[marcello]

Re: Christian..

Chris, could part of the reason for so few recordings, not only ones where he could be a leader but over all, be one of lifestyle? That is was his nightlife and traveling a hinder to him establishing himself as a leader and to be available to record as one? In the overall, there really are not that many recording of him in total. Correct?

Being on the scene and giging around, and being a leader in the studio or clubs, are different jazz animals.

[Free For All]

yes what he said-- why didnty wes make too many sideman dates?

I think passing at the age of 43 was a contributing factor.

[JSngry]

I'd hazard a guess that staying local for so long, and then going from that right into a leader's role (and always being on the road as such) gave him little opportunity and/or inclination to do a lot of sideman sessions.