Are you really listening?

[sonic1]

Anticipating the arrival of my own copy of the Albert Ayler box set, and reading up again on Ayler to refresh my memory of his history I have been playing a lot of the Ayler records I have, as well as a lot of other jazz albums I have of this kind-whatever you want to call it.

I noticed a pattern I have developed in my listening habits. Within the idiom of jazz and other related improvised musics I find that I tend to swing back and forth between what is generally considered the “classics” of jazz, to the “outskirts” making pit-stops each time in music that is somehow settled between “out” music and “in” music. All these categories are synthetic to me, created by critics and an audience that needs to group and taxonomize their interests. But I used the map myself. I just have to remind myself that most important is what the artist intended-not what the critics decide about the artists.

That said, I find myself oscillating between the extremes. But the effect is positive. When I listen to Ayler (who is really playing folk music) it makes me love and understand Sidney Bechet more. When I play Duke Ellington, I find myself searching out Brötzmann. When I play Keith Rowe I understand more the music of Rollins. These musicians don’t reference each other that much (though Sidney Bechet was a huge influence on Ayler). Instead they cleanse my ears. Instead of expecting or anticipating the next line from Cecil Taylor’s piano, because I immersed myself just previous in the language of Django Reinhart, I find my ears are freshened and ready to really hear Cecil.

I find that sometimes when I drench myself in a particular type of music, or artist, I begin to stop listening-because I already “know” what is happening or if I am conscious of this happening, I struggle not to anticipate-an action which itself is already stealing energy from my listening ability.

But when I keep my listening varied and (as I often say) promiscuous, it allows me to effortlessly listen without distraction or imposition.

Has anyone else experienced this to be true? The only exception to this rule is if I am trying to learn something (transcribing) or if I have discovered something totally new (as I have with EAI over the last year or so). I have an excellent memory for music and it becomes familiar very quickly. This has some good effects, but mostly I damn my memory because it takes away from the sheer enjoyment of music.

I suspect that this is what keeps me back as a musician myself-besides my current lack of time. Familiarity quickly diminishes the power of music, makes it dead to me quickly-UNLESS I do as I described above. That is hard to do with my playing. I quickly become bored and struggle to do something else. Often I put down my horn and play months later-in which time I have recharged. I have not touched my guitar in way too long-over a year.

So I have been pulling out albums lately I have not played in a while (Brötzmann, Ayler, McPhee, Shepp, Saunders, Late Coltrane, etc) and realizing how much I have NOT listened to these albums. It is either THAT or that I have forgotten having heard what I am now hearing in the music- how diverse it is, all the various corners, etc. I realized really that I am just hearing the music again. I am for a moment turning off my “knowledge” and truly being lucid, awake, alive to the music.

We all think we know so much about all this music, because we all listen sooooo much, collect sooooo many albums, but really I wonder how much we are all listening? How much of this shit is just talk? I say this as someone who has spent a lot of time intently listening to music, not as a lay listener. I really mean, among all us here-how often honestly are we really there, and not tuning out, or just jotting down landmarks for an album review?

Jared

[Jazzmoose]

Well, I don't know if this is the same thing you're describing, but I've found that the album I listened to three years ago is not necessarily the same album I hear today even though it's the same album. I've only been listening to jazz for a little over six years now, so I'm not sure I can assume I know any work, even one I've listened to many times. So if I'm talking about a work that I haven't listened to in a couple of years, I don't know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, I imagine this musical growth will keep up, so I don't know what I'm talking about now from the standpoint of three years in the future. Look, just to be safe, assume I don't know what I'm talking about...

[catesta]

I don't know what to say after reading that.

[wolff]

Interesting. What is the purpose of music? What's the purpose the musicians had when playing?

Familiarity may be one the reasons for the loss of music's power. The recording has it's limitations. More good live dates could refresh.

After a hike does the music not sound as familiar?

Edited February 27, 2005 by wolff

[sonic1]

Jazzmoose, I agree that the more we learn about music the more that we hear in the music. But I also think our "knowledge" of music can get in the way of hearing music too. Our assumptions about what we are hearing because we have heard it before begin to take place of actually hearing the music. Especially if a lot has been written about music.

I also find that when I listen to music, in different settings, or around different people, that will also have an effect on the music. Particularly if I try to play music that requires more attention for people who don't have the ability to give such.

And I also wonder how my own moods, states of mind effect the music.

It is much like going hiking: I spend a lot of time hiking here in Arizona. When I come home, my house feels different to me. Sometimes even my neighborhood looks different.

It is much the same with music. And so I wonder how much of my own mind is imposed in that which I experience-like in this discussion, music.

[AfricaBrass]

Jarod, your post was really interesting. I'm not really sure if I understand where you're coming from, but thinking on what you said has got me thinking.

There was a time when my listening was more narrow. If the music went out of a certain comfort zone; I would think there was something wrong with it. Now, I try as hard as I can to come to each piece of music with FRESH ears. When I buy a cd, I won't read the liners or reviews until I've given the CD a few plays (hopefully more). I really want to get into the music and face it on its' terms.

It's strange, I find that as I listen to music that I know inside and out already, I can really enjoy it if I try to throw out my previous thoughts, experiences, connections with the music, I can often get into a new space with it.

I know I probably sound nuts, but like Jazzmoose said, an album isn't the same as it was three years ago. The only difference is the listener. So... how do I avoid getting trapped in a listening rut with too many preconceptions.

This is an interesting thread, thanks for starting it.

[sonic1]

Interesting. What is the purpose of music? Listen and find out.

Purpose?

That is a good question. I think the answer varies:

-what is the purpose/intent of the artist?

-what is the purpose/intent of the listener?

I can only speak for myself, but I listen for a lot of reasons. I think music expresses what is impossible in words. I am not in it just for the purpose of entertainment-though at times I admit I do want to be entertained.

I listen because I love music, love the way it makes me feel, love the way it helps me learn, love the way artists cull from nothing, something beautiful. Boy, this a big question and I run into problems already with my own thinking here. I will have to get back to you on this.

[AfricaBrass]

Jazzmoose, I agree that the more we learn about music the more that we hear in the music. But I also think our "knowledge" of music can get in the way of hearing music too. Our assumptions about what we are hearing because we have heard it before begin to take place of actually hearing the music. Especially if a lot has been written about music.

I also find that when I listen to music, in different settings, or around different people, that will also have an effect on the music. Particularly if I try to play music that requires more attention for people who don't have the ability to give such.

And I also wonder how my own moods, states of mind effect the music.

It is much like going hiking: I spend a lot of time hiking here in Arizona. When I come home, my house feels different to me. Sometimes even my neighborhood looks different.

It is much the same with music. And so I wonder how much of my own mind is imposed in that which I experience-like in this discussion, music.

I was typing my last post when you posted this one.

I guess we are in similar frames of mind.

[wolff]

Here we go....

A thread not about the analytical, but the aesthetic of music.

[wolff]

I can often get into a new space with it.

I'd call it a new moment of time, but I agree, that is the key and often hard to arrive at.

Edited February 27, 2005 by wolff

[sonic1]

Here we go....

A thread not about the analytical, but the aesthetic of music.

How is this not analytical?

I am speaking on terms more than just regarding the lay listener. I mean, amongst us who really do spend a lot of time with music, how much are we listening and how much do a variety of filters (including "analytical") interrupt our experience of the music?

Edited February 27, 2005 by sonic1

[wolff]

I listen because I love music, love the way it makes me feel, love the way it helps me learn, love the way artists cull from nothing, something beautiful. Boy, this a big question and I run into problems already with my own thinking here. I will have to get back to you on this.

No problems with your thinking as far as I can see. Sometimes, less is more.

[AfricaBrass]

I can often get into a new space with it.

I'd call it a new moment of time, but I agree, that is the key and often hard to arrive at.

I agree.

I guess the challenge I sometimes enjoy is to really embrace a piece of music without my preconceptions coloring what I hear. It seems as I have more experiences with a piece of music, I lay more filters over that music.

I guess in the end, there's really no way to hear the music without my own filters, but my desire is to be as open as I can to the music. I find it happens all the time; I get a CD and it really doesn't sit with me very well at first. An example of that would be the newest Jason Moran album; but by the fifth listen or so, I really was into the music.

[Noj]

There is a heavy contrast between the moment to moment improvisation involved in creating jazz and the meditative, repetitive, dissective listening of jazz recordings.

[wolff]

I'm pretty sure the purpose of the music/musicians was/is to experience the aesthetic and not to analyze. Let yourself be moved and touched and changed, etc., etc.. The critical or over analyzing comes in to play when you are influenced by others and not being yourself and open to the music/musicianship.

Or, you just do not like it.

Simple, but it works for me. YMMV

[AfricaBrass]

There is a heavy contrast between the moment to moment improvisation involved in creating jazz and the meditative, repetitive, dissective listening of jazz recordings.

Very good point!

I agree with you, Wolff; being true to yourself is the best way to be.

[joeface]

"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. And you can never...

capture it...

again"

:>

j

Edited February 27, 2005 by joeface

[JSngry]

Mr. Dolphy makes a good point.

[sonic1]

I'm pretty sure the purpose of the music/musicians was/is to experience the aesthetic and not to analyze. Let yourself be moved and touched and changed, etc., etc.. The critical or over analyzing comes in to play when you are influenced by others and not being yourself and open to the music/musicianship.

Or, you just do not like it.

Simple, but it works for me. YMMV

But my point is that we mindlessly impose things onto music. We all have natural filters that alter our experience of the music, aside of whatever the intent of the musicians are.

I for one would like to remove as many of those filters as much as possible. I don't think that is being too "heady" about the music.

I think there are times to be analytical, especially as a musician wanting to learn a tune, or understand what a player is doing. Then there are times when I just want to lie back and let the music pour over me without having my filters at work.

I certainly don't want to lazily let these inappropriate filters invade my experience of the music. I really do think, often, people DO let this happen, myself included.