Indian Music and Jazz

[mjazzg]

I don't find that Ganavya overly studious in the slightest, I only listened to it yesterday and thought what a marvellously organic album it is.

Arooj Aftab on the other hand I completely agree with you, pretty lifeless

As for Iyer, we all know your thoughts on him some of which I agree with but if you listen to 'Defiant Life' and think there's no future in Jazz then I'll worry about you...

[Rabshakeh]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

I don't find that Ganavya overly studious in the slightest, I only listened to it yesterday and thought what a marvellously organic album it is.

Arooj Aftab on the other hand I completely agree with you, pretty lifeless

As for Iyer, we all know your thoughts on him some of which I agree with but if you listen to 'Defiant Life' and think there's no future in Jazz then I'll worry about you...

As I say, I liked that Ganavya overall.  Clever idea and well executed, I thought. It is interesting that, outside of some rather auterish Alice Coltrane records, that particular mix of devotional carnatic chant and jazz has not yet been tried. (Or if it has I don't know it or I have forgotten it.) It really is "spiritual jazz".

I didn't find it "organic" though - in fact that Don Cherry "organic music" ingredient is precisely what I thought the record most missed: to my ears it had a self-aware institutional feel in place of the free-spirited hippy one I wanted. But as I write that comment I see that it represents a reaction so subjective as to be basically irrelevant. Where I really didn't like the record was the multi-part covers towards the end, and that was to what the "overly studious" comment was meant to apply. I thought those were weak, and that was largely because I thought that they were so considered. The rest of the album was good and I might have included it in my list above were it not for those closing tracks, which to me cost the record its A grade. I'll be looking out for more of her releases though.

On Aftab, Love In Exile was for me the actual nadir, and is the Iyer record that really did make me ready to give up. I may be guilty of moaning about Iyer a bit much since it came out, for which I apologise. Listening to it felt like attending a lecture. There was also something about how bad I thought the record was combined with the eulogies it triggered in the jazz press (and the vicious smack downs of the few dissenting voices) which really flicked a nerve. I perhaps wrongly see latter day Iyer as a scenemaker in a sinister position of (comparative) institutional power, who is taking the genre as a whole in the wrong direction, like a modern day Crouch / Marsalis. That is why I keep wibbling on about him. 

I do actually like Night Rain by Aftab though. Night Rain is far too mature for its own good and has Iyer in a prominent role but to my ears it works as a mature album in the manner of 1990s ECMs. 

I also don't want to suggest that I don't rate earlier Iyer. Historicity is obviously enthroned as one of the great classics for a reason. 

I have not listened to Defiant Life yet. The combo of ECM, Iyer and Wadada Leo Smith (who I respect greatly but rarely connect with) made me assume that I would not like it but given your recommendation I shall definitely give it a listen. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Rabshakeh

[mjazzg]

Funnily, as I listened to that Ganavya yesterday I was particularly taken by the covers and particularly that of 'A Love Supreme' and thought how natural it sounded, a logical, but not in a cold way, realisation of her overall sound and approach. It made want to listen to JC's recording not to compare or contrast but to complement.

This really is all about subjectivity in the end as we all know but don't always admit. I'm as guilty as anyone on that front and not asserting that you are in this instance at all.

Now, Wadada Leo Smith, it now becomes my mission in life to help you 'connect' to his music as no music lover such as you should live without that connection and the joy it brings. Off to think about my strategy 😀

[Rabshakeh]

47 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Funnily, as I listened to that Ganavya yesterday I was particularly taken by the covers and particularly that of 'A Love Supreme' and thought how natural it sounded, a logical, but not in a cold way, realisation of her overall sound and approach. It made want to listen to JC's recording not to compare or contrast but to complement.

This really is all about subjectivity in the end as we all know but don't always admit. I'm as guilty as anyone on that front and not asserting that you are in this instance at all.

The discussion almost seems to be as much about our respective responses to perceived social cues rather than musical ones. (Academic / Institutional Vs Natural / Organic). Interesting that we hear the same musicians so differently. 

48 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Now, Wadada Leo Smith, it now becomes my mission in life to help you 'connect' to his music as no music lover such as you should live without that connection and the joy it brings. Off to think about my strategy 😀

I would love to connect with Smith! I always thought I would like his music and have never understood why I don't connect with it. I do feel it is a deficiency in my musical listening, so I look forward to the lesson plan. 

Strangely, given my dislike of large box sets, Ten Freedom Summers and Sacred Ceremonies are my favourite Smith I have heard so far. Maybe they have a bit more role for rhythm than most Smith or maybe it is the compositional space? I don't know. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Rabshakeh

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

The discussion almost seems to be as much about our respective responses to perceived social cues rather than musical ones. (Academic / Institutional Vs Natural / Organic). Interesting that we hear the same musicians so differently. 

I would love to connect with Smith! I always thought I would like his music and have never understood why I don't connect with it. I do feel it is a deficiency in my musical listening, so I look forward to the lesson plan. 

Strangely, given my dislike of large box sets, Ten Freedom Summers and Sacred Ceremonies are my favourite Smith I have heard so far. Maybe they have a bit more role for rhythm than most Smith or maybe it is the compositional space? I don't know. 

I think "space" and silence is my key to understanding WLS, he uses both to great effect as I hear it.

It's such a huge discography now that it seems faintly ridiculous to pluck single albums out to recommend. I might suggest a dive into the Tzadik box set, if it's now streamable

https://www.discogs.com/release/583787-Wadada-Leo-Smith-Kabell-Years-1971-1979

Early small group and solo pieces that I fell in love with when it was released. Immerse and live with it for a bit, if life allows. There's so much being said musically in what I hear as a very original way. Would love to have come across it real time but even I'm too young for that.

I don't think the TUM label is streamable which is shame as they've released his most recent work. I have a soft spot for the string quartet box amongst others.

Interestingly, I admire 'Ten Freedom Summers' more than likely it. I did see an astonishing performance of part of it at Oto.

Go and see him live if you can (he's at Wigmore Hall in October but with you know who)

[Rabshakeh]

13 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

https://www.discogs.com/release/583787-Wadada-Leo-Smith-Kabell-Years-1971-1979

Early small group and solo pieces that I fell in love with when it was released. Immerse and live with it for a bit, if life allows. There's so much being said musically in what I hear as a very original way. Would love to have come across it real time but even I'm too young for that.

I'm listening now and enjoying more than when I first approached it. It is perhaps one that I went to too early in my AACM forays and then haven't returned to since.

At the risk of completely derailing this thread, I'll pick up elsewhere later in the day. 

[mjazzg]

32 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

I'm listening now and enjoying more than when I first approached it. It is perhaps one that I went to too early in my AACM forays and then haven't returned to since.

At the risk of completely derailing this thread, I'll pick up elsewhere later in the day. 

👍

[clifford_thornton]

7 hours ago, mjazzg said:

 

Arooj Aftab on the other hand I completely agree with you, pretty lifeless

As for Iyer, we all know your thoughts on him some of which I agree with but if you listen to 'Defiant Life' and think there's no future in Jazz then I'll worry about you...

I saw Iyer, Aftab, and Moor Mother in concert with Tyshawn and it was absolutely intense. Certainly the best time I saw Vijay.