ghost of miles Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 After all, what is the point of having a jazz radio station if not to appreciate the whole jazz tradition. Ornette and Paul Desmond, Monk and Duke, Lee Morgan and Don Cherry, Pee Wee Russell and Jimmy Giuffre, Stan Getz and Lucky Thompson!!! ← Crazy radical! Which program is yours? What time does it air? You should promote it here in the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert J Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Here's the problem. On KNTU's site it says: The managerial staff of KTCU is currently on "Summer Break" and will be returning fall 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Hey...let's all make Ornette Coleman requests....here's the place to do it.... KNTUjukebox@unt.edu ← We should form a pool and do one or two missives a day... a steady, summer-long barrage of Ornette requests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Here's the problem. On KNTU's site it says: The managerial staff of KTCU is currently on "Summer Break" and will be returning fall 2005. ← Eh? The managerial "staff" all went on summer break? Nice work if you can get it... or should I invoke a less "out" tune? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesp Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) Ghost - My show is called The Jazz Lab and is on Tuesdays from 7:00 pm - 8:00 pm Central. charles Edited June 28, 2005 by charlesp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 While you're at it, maybe you can convince the Story of Texas museum in Austin to include Ornette on its Texan musician "wall of fame". No offesne to Red Garland, of course, but I would argue that, among the two of them, only one unquestionably revolutionized an Amercian artform... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 So Jim, whose fault is that? A The station for not having it? B The labels for not giving it to them? C The listeners for never requesting it before? My guess is B, I don't think the labels care enough about jazz (ie not enough money in it) to bother promoting it. And the "jazz" they do promote SUCKS. This a corollary to my "Jazz doesn't sell because it's not for sale" ramblings. ← No love from the labels is definitely part of the problem. In many instances if you don't "report" to some publication or recognized radio publication-like radio and records-the labels won't give you the time of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 So Jim, whose fault is that? A The station for not having it? B The labels for not giving it to them? C The listeners for never requesting it before? My guess is B, I don't think the labels care enough about jazz (ie not enough money in it) to bother promoting it. And the "jazz" they do promote SUCKS. This a corollary to my "Jazz doesn't sell because it's not for sale" ramblings. ← No love from the labels is definitely part of the problem. In many instances if you don't "report" to some publication or recognized radio publication-like radio and records-the labels won't give you the time of day. ← I've also found that Blue Note in particular is much less likely to send promos of re-issues, as opposed to new releases (unless the re-issue is a new compilation of some sort--those they'll usually send). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 This really sucks, but not surprising...radio has become so homogenized, even college and public stations. In Sacramento, Capitol Public Radio features mostly jazz programming for music (a lot of talk/news/etc too), but it's typically only the most "innoffensive" stuff...not that SOME of it isn't excellent fare - you do hear for example people like Renee Rosnes and other artists who have a lot on the ball musically but present themselves in a mainsteam, "quiet" manner as a rule - but after about an hour my eyes start to glaze over. The sameness is deadly, and also much of what they play is basically (IMHO) MOR dreck with a jazzy veneer. You'd rarely if ever hear Ornette. I knew I was in trouble when, shortly after I first arrived, I e-mailed the programming director to ask whether they might find time for stuff like Jackie McLean's prime period Blue Notes, Archie Shepp, etc. He e-mailed back with something like (paraphrasing) "our demographic isn't into McLean except maybe some later ballads, and certainly not Archie Shepp." He said in the past they had supposedly tried having dedicated shows/time slots where more adventurous stuff was played and nobody listened. Well, maybe...but I'm not at all sure that this isn't just a really lazy approach to programming...and that with a little creative effort one might find a way to present the music. They manage to dedicate an entire show to "acid jazz," which to be honest I generally find to be a terrible bore and precious little to do with jazz at all...and beyond that I don't even think it's a "hip" marketing label anymore as it was for a hot minute a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 I think this is a combination of "student help" and a corporate radio mentality that could be creeping into the mix. However,if the management is on "summer vacation" it might be premature to lay the corporate radio label on their doorstep.If the radio stations "leadership" are all on summer vacation-that is asking for trouble and I'd bet good money they will get trouble. KNTU seems like your basic Mickey Mouse operation IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 So Jim, whose fault is that? A The station for not having it? B The labels for not giving it to them? C The listeners for never requesting it before? My guess is B, I don't think the labels care enough about jazz (ie not enough money in it) to bother promoting it. And the "jazz" they do promote SUCKS. This a corollary to my "Jazz doesn't sell because it's not for sale" ramblings. ← No love from the labels is definitely part of the problem. In many instances if you don't "report" to some publication or recognized radio publication-like radio and records-the labels won't give you the time of day. ← I've also found that Blue Note in particular is much less likely to send promos of re-issues, as opposed to new releases (unless the re-issue is a new compilation of some sort--those they'll usually send). ← Ghost your getting more love from Blue Note than I am.The bastards wouldn't even return my calls. I agree with you about placement for an artist like Ornette. It should be done with some care and thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Well, just pop Ornette in your CD player. I haven't listened to radio for my music in years. Sad but true. Last time I listened to a radio station was KUT's Paul Ray's Jazz in the afternoon. Used to run 2 or 3 hours every weekday. That got cancelled a few years back, and I've since turned the radio off. CDs only these days. However, that San Antonio jazz station kicks ass. Wish I could hear them up here in Austin in my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Ya know, it just occurred to me that the title of this thread would have a whole 'nother meaning for British listeners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Ya know, it just occurred to me that the title of this thread would have a whole 'nother meaning for British listeners... ← I'll drink to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesp Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 ....so our British friends might expect this thread to be Mr Sangrey's heartfelt tribute to Nick and Nora Charles, and Asta too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Soul Stream Today, 02:16 PM Post #37 Well, just pop Ornette in your CD player. That's JUST what I do...but it illustrates my point. Maybe our public radio station gains some listeners by being the aural equivalent of wallpaper, but it also loses a lot of potential listeners by doing this too...me included. Basically I listen to some morning news, Fresh Air (when I can), and Weekend Edition and then pop in CDs because the jazz programming is so dull. I wonder if they tell potential advertisers buying time during the jazz programming about THAT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 I don't know about all the management, but the cat I talksed to was a familiar voice who does morning drive and fundraisers year-round. The funny thing is, his rap was so damn predictable. It's like he was reading off a script, or had been programmed in his sleep, or something. But it's no surprise - UNT has always been averse to certain elements of musical society. It's really institutionalized, which is why I shouldn't be surprised. But it was just so blatant. It was like this guy had a manual in front of him with a chapter entitled "What To Say When A Listener Requests Something We Don't Approve Of", and after he had read everything there, he hung up. Didn't (couldn't?) come up with anything other than the party line. Thinking for yourself must not be a prerequisite for that gig. But then again, his future in Korporate Amerikka is surely to be BRITE!!!! Hey, I know that sometimes things get a little snippy around here amonst various musical factions. Just try and understand that for some of us, it's not you we see/hear when "you" make comments, pointed or otherwise, about music beyond the "mainstream". It's years, literally years, of frustration of dealing with the type of mentality that removes CDs from a station so the DJs won't play them because nobody wants to hear them, not even the people who request them or the people who have never heard them... It builds up inside, man, it builds up. And sometimes it explodes and hits civilians. Please forgive us when it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 What's funny to me is.... In my experience recently, the most appealing form of jazz to college kids IS avant guarde!!!! Bring Tom Harrell down to Austin and they got a decent crowd in the small jazz club here. Bring Ken Vandermark and it's packed down at the big rock venue!!!! ← My experience, also. I work with a lot of younger folks, the tatooed, pierced crowd. And they know who Albert Ayler is! KNTU's program director's position on Ornette, an international treasure who happens to hail from Denton's georaphic neighbor - Ft. Worth, indicates that KNTU has forfeit any claim that it is a jazz radio station. What is it they say about prophets getting little respect in their home lands? After all, what is the point of having a jazz radio station if not to appreciate the whole jazz tradition. Ornette and Paul Desmond, Monk and Duke, Lee Morgan and Don Cherry, Pee Wee Russell and Jimmy Giuffre, Stan Getz and Lucky Thompson!!! ← That's what it's ALL about, as far as I'm concerned. Public broadcasting, unfortunately, is going the way of ALL broadcasting, attempting to appeal to the lowest common denominator, albeit one somewhat higher than average. Look at public TV, which runs, for god's sake, the likes of John Tesh and Peter, Paul and Mary during pledge periods. I recall reading that Gary Giddins first encountered Cecil Taylor's music on television! Gone are those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) Ya know, it just occurred to me that the title of this thread would have a whole 'nother meaning for British listeners... ← The reason for this thread is exactly why I'm TEMPTED to stay pissed in the U.K. sense. Edited June 28, 2005 by Kalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Oh, btw - kudos to Dan Gould for his stance in this. Dan is obviously not an Ornette man, but his postion towards what is a good programming policy for a station such as KNTU is to be commended, and shows that it is possible to seperate personal taste from the "bigger picture" when called for. Dan gets a lot of flack (much of it good-natures, I hope!) for his highly-focused tastes, but hey - I for one appreciate him very much for calling 'em as he sees 'em, whether I agree or not. And on this thread, we defintiely agree! The rest of y'all, hey - I'll not be a prick and post the MD's direct office #, but I will post the staion's e-mail: kntu@unt.edu Direct it to Mark, and let him know that you're a Metroplex resident who's been a staunch supporter of KNTU, including making regular donations, for many years, but now you're having rather serious doubts. In other words, lie like hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Ya know, it just occurred to me that the title of this thread would have a whole 'nother meaning for British listeners... ← The reason for this thread is exactly why I'm TEMPTED to stay pissed in the U.K. sense. ← Precisely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 The rest of y'all, hey - I'll not be a prick and post the MD's direct office #, but I will post the staion's e-mail: kntu@unt.edu Direct it to Mark, and let him know that you're a Metroplex resident who's been a staunch supporter of KNTU, including making regular donations, for many years, but now you're having rather serious doubts. In other words, lie like hell! ← Some truths transcend others... There should be an Ornette statue in Fort Worth. Hell, in Washington D.C., too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gslade Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Ya know, it just occurred to me that the title of this thread would have a whole 'nother meaning for British listeners... ← Yes I also thought that maybe it was time for an intervention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 JSngry you asked for forgiveness for your outrage(if that's the correct word)but you didn't say anything that needs forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Here in Wilmington, NPR used to be the station that played the music you wouldn't ever hear unless you were playing it from your own collection. I just moved back after 6 years and NPR seems to be moving in the direction this thread describes. The good news is there is a new station, local commercials and all, sweepstakes, ticket giveaways, everything you'd expect from a pop station or what have you. They mainly focus on roots music and alt-country style stuff (this is North Carolina after all), but every once in a while they'll play a Charles Mingus tune! It is so funny. I haven't heard any other jazz on this station in the four weeks I've been back exept Charles Mingus tunes! And they are programmed in with everything else. WUIN The Penguin "A Different Kind of Bird" "We've Got the Music Down Cold." .:. I would certainly expect more from a college station though. I will definitely email KNTU re: Ornette. The college radio that I am used to is basically a free for all the majority of the time. The last person I would expect to find at the PD desk of a college station is a book burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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