Paul Chambers

[Soul Stream]

Paul Chambers is simply unbelievable. That's a given. However, I was unaware just how YOUNG he was.

NINETEEN years old when he came to NYC and TWENTY when he joined the infamous Miles Davis group...

That's just mind blowing.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Soul Stream

[Soul Stream]

I keep thinking that I need to get his Mosaic Select set.

←

I don't know much about the rest of the select...but I USED to have "Bass On Top"...actually, one of my first Blue Notes...and I always loved it.

[B. Goren.]

Paul Chambers played 8 years with Miles, much more than any other player. Miles knew why he hired him. Regarding the MS, one of the best imho.

Edited August 12, 2005 by B. Goren.

[Jazz Kat]

Simply, my favorite bass player of all time! I like the story of when him, Miles, and Philly Joe were at some restaurant and Paul put on too much sauce on his spaghetti, Philly Joe and Miles were talking, next thing you know Paul had his head in his plate, past out.

('m getting these from the Miles book BTW)

Also, when Miles was playing some variety show, Paul asked some old women, "What are you doing tonight?"

Besides, incredible bass player. He's probaly on more than 85 % of my recordings.

[7/4]

Simply, my favorite bass player of all time! I like the story of when him, Miles, and Philly Joe were at some restaurant and Paul put on too much sauce on his spaghetti, Philly Joe and Miles were talking, next thing you know Paul had his head in his plate, past out.

Sounds like he had too much sauce.

[ValerieB]

would you believe that he used to live across the street from me in nyc?!?

[Stereojack]

Paul Chambers is simply unbelievable.  That's a given. However, I was unaware just how YOUNG he was.

NINETEEN years old when he came to NYC and TWENTY when he joined the infamous Miles Davis group...

That's just mind blowing.

←

And only 33 when he died.

[Kalo]

Chambers was really something else. I'm a big fan.

Wasn't Tony Williams even younger when he joined Miles?

[marcello]

Paul Chambers, Lee Morgan, Tony Williams........

Compared to many that are touted today, isn't it amazing how each one of these artists had their own personality and concept at a young age?

It speaks volumns of their early dedication to the music. Serious , gifted and hard-working artists.

[Soulstation1]

i like this cover

[wigwise]

It's interesting, there really isn't much written about his personal life (that I've found). I'd be interested in knowing more about his life outside of music. I know that he came to Detroit when he was 14 and that he was 20 when Miles hired him. I've also read that he died of tuberculosis and had serious problem with drugs, that's about it. A Detroit Jazz Musician (who knew and played with him) once told me that he was constantly being picked up (during rehearsals) by the police for non-payment of child support. I tried to ask him more questions about Paul, but he didn't want to go there, for some unknown reason. I wonder how many children he had...

Where can one find such information on this interesting Jazz virtuoso? Is there a bio in the works?

[montg]

mention of a bio here

aaj

[Guest]

I've only heard stories and not directly from people who would know, but I think in addition to having a really bad drug problem, he tended to keep others in drugs. Brownie had a reputation of getting people clean and P.C. had a reputation of keeping people hooked. I of course, don't know if that is deserved.

From a bassist standpoint, he's a very significant musician. Inarguably one of the most significant for our music based on his discography if nothing else. He also is generally credited with bringing the arco solo to the forefront, although most modern bassist don't like that sound. His arco tone had a lot to do with the strings he used and how it was recorded, but compared to someone like John Clayton he was a terrific pioneer, but not an arco master by any means. For his time...

His playing was great at times and inconsistent at others. Maybe because of the junk, but there are some interesting...I don't know, I won't say "flaws"...how about "suspect things" occasionally in the notes he chose and his time feel. In places on certain recordings. On others, he's the text book of how-to. I love his pizzicato tone and he played some very hip stuff.

He MUST have been great to work with, just based on how often he was hired.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm new to the board and don't know if it's cool here to counter people's praise. When he was good, he was great.

TroyK

Edited December 10, 2005 by TroyK

[ValerieB]

". . . and P.C. had a reputation of keeping people hooked. . ."

yeah, troyk, i think that statement is offensive. in 40 years, i've never heard anything like that about him before.

[Guest]

". . . and P.C. had a reputation of keeping people hooked. . ."

yeah, troyk, i think that statement is offensive. in 40 years, i've never heard anything like that about him before.

Then I apologize. I certainly don't have 1st hand knowledge. I do know of a biography in progress. Maybe when it comes out, we'll all know more about him.

troy

[7/4]

". . . and P.C. had a reputation of keeping people hooked. . ."

yeah, troyk, i think that statement is offensive. in 40 years, i've never heard anything like that about him before.

Then I apologize. I certainly don't have 1st hand knowledge. I do know of a biography in progress. Maybe when it comes out, we'll all know more about him.

troy

iz ok, I'm interested in rumors.

[Guest akanalog]

do you have firsthand knowledge, valerieb?

are you someone close enough to this situation to know whether what troyk said is true or not?

just curious...

[ValerieB]

do you have firsthand knowledge, valerieb?

are you someone close enough to this situation to know whether what troyk said is true or not?

just curious...

i knew paul long ago, my girlfriend lived with him for years, he lived across the street from me, i went to his funeral. all that to say that i cannot swear one way or another. what i did say was that i had never heard that said about paul before - in 40 years!

[JamesJazz]

Scuse me, akanalog, I think the question here is if Troyk has 'solid knowledge' about PCs drug habits, not whether ValerieB does. What is the point of spreading gossip about the music/musicians we love?

[Guest akanalog]

i was curious what valerieb's connection was.

he or she explained and it was actually a pretty interesting explanation.

and based on this answer it seems like he or she might know what's up.

getting back to you, james...i think it is pretty beat if people are going to jump on each others butts for diseminating ancedotal information and stories about jazz musicians they like or dislike.

i mean i don't think anyone posting on this website that paul chambers might have hooked people up with smack is really going to sully his name.

where i'm coming from, any information-first second or third hand is always welcome in presenting me with a fuller picture of musicians i might only know from the music.

then of course when someone like valerieb can then give even more valid info, all the better.

[Guest akanalog]

also james, troyk never claime to have "solid' knowledge.

he wasn't telling the story like it was something he experienced firsthand.

[Guest]

O.K., let's back up. My name's Troy. I'm new here. I hate upsetting people and hate even more offending people. The internet is a strange media, because you can chat with total strangers like you're friends, but in fact, you don't know anything about each other. I understand that many people on this board have been for a while and have a feel for what each other is about. I don't have proper context for who I'm talking to and none of you have context for me yet. I deeply regret that I started off by offending someone close to Mr. Chambers. Please accept my apology.

Here are the facts: I didn't know him. I'm not from his generation, I have no "solid information" about the intimate details of his life. Therefore, we're in violent agreement that I shouldn't have come here and put into writing what I did. As jazz fans/freaks we sometimes think we have a connection with our heros because we've listenned to every note they've recorded over and over, read every word we can find in print and discussed them in a million late night conversations.

Let me go back and say again that P.C. is a very significant person in the development of BeBop and jazz bass, which I love enough to play myself. I have tremendous respect for his playing. I also said a few negative things about his playing in my post, which I don't really regret, because I feel like I do have some first hand knowledge to base those opinions on, but I wish I hadn't posted them on my first day on the forum. I've been listenning to "1st Bassman" for about 2 days straight and it's a really solid session. When he was good he was unbelievably great.

Now, just to kind of defend myself a little bit. What I was reacting to was this:

I tried to ask him more questions about Paul, but he didn't want to go there, for some unknown reason.

I don't know what this particular unnammed musician's aversion to say more was, but it reminded me of a number of conversations I've had with musicians, some of whom may have been there, some of whom were repeating what they heard. I say that only so that you don't start believing that I say things based on nothing. I hang out, I love jazz, I play a little and I have an unquenchable thirst of the history of the music. I read jazz biographies and when someone with knowledge and context talks about the music and the history and the people, I listen and prod them for more. I remember reading or being told that Joe Henderson credited Clifford Brown for influencing him to be clean, but I don't remember where I got that or if it's true. Assuming it is, I don't know if he meant with his example or from actually helping him. I've also heard, usually in hushed voices and with sad eyes, stories about some of the troubles Mr. Chambers had. Not from spiteful people, but people who love the music, respect his contribution to it and were talking about the problems that many of those great musicians had. I've had good conversations about the reasons that drugs got so many of those people. It was a hard life and a hard time. It's still a hard life and not sleeping, keeping horible hours and making no money can influence you to look for help in things that aren't in the end helpful, then and now. It's not a judgement.

I've heard Prestige referred to as the "junkie label" because they reportedly paid cash (very little) for some of the greatest musicians ever to come in and play, but not rehearse, not record enough takes to get really great records out and not tune that freaking piano. I've heard/read that many of the people who played on Prestige did so at times in their lives and careers where drugs had big influence on them and a little cash was supportive to their habit. But, I don't know if it's true, it's part of the aural history of jazz. (I have some favorite Prestige records, by the way.) In fact, I can't really claim that any of the stories that I've heard and read about jazz are true. It's just history as told now. I read Mingus's autobiography and I've read critisisms that it was largely fiction, even though the man wrote it himself. Unless you were there, you don't know. I do have some good 2nd gerneration stories passed to me through people who were close to people like Ray Brown and Don Lamphere that I have no reason to doubt, but that's the best I'll do in my lifetime with respect to stories about the era of Jazz I love the most, the 40's-60's.

My wife's a journalist, by her professional standards I shouldn't have typed what I typed. If it hadn't been quoted in a response, I would go back and delete it now to erase it from record. So, please accept my apology. I plan to hang around and banter with you guys for a while, so over time, I think you'll see that I'm not into a sullying reputations and cutting down people who I respect. I got off to a bad start. I'm sure that I will hear what I'll hear again, because that story does seem to come around every so often, but I will be careful what I repeat, especially when it is negative.

When there is a P.C. biography available, I will read it and be better informed. However, I won't really know then if what I read is true either. I'll never have a first hand account of anything from the records I love. For those of you who were there and have what I don't, I look forward to reading what you have to say about your experiences.

peace and bop,

Troy

Edited December 11, 2005 by TroyK

[JSngry]

Troy, you're cool from what I read in this thread. Some people here get really bugged about any mention of drugs and jazz, but afaic, it's a part of the history and should be dealt with as such, objectively, truthfully, and without sensationalism (which also means no moral indignation on either side). The still living, that's a different dynamic. But history is history.

There's no shortage of rumors in this music. Some are actually true, some are exaggerations of truths, some are myths built on truth, some take an isolate incident or two and extrapolate it out into a personality profile, on and on and on. If you weren't there, you can't know. so you ask questions, put what you've heard out for discussion, and see what comes back. It's the only way to learn.

I though that Valerie was actually pretty civil in her response, and she told you what she knew. Others have done the same, it seems, and the results seem contradictory. Just keep in mind that we all have many faces, and that seldom do we show them all to any one person. We're all complicated creatures, some more than others, so judgement is not something to be rendered lightly, if at all.

[Guest]

We're all complicated creatures, some more than others, so judgement is not something to be rendered lightly, if at all.

Thanks for your nice response. I regret that what I said implied judgement. None was intended. It is about an obsession of the past, present and future history of the art.

[ValerieB]

thanks for your thoughtful response, troyk. you're obviously a cool cat and i look forward to your future posts!

just for the record, i have no problem hearing about musicians and drugs or discussing it. just don't like reading something that sounds very negative about someone who can't defend themself and where there's no substance or confirmation. paul was a very sweet cat even with all his problems.