Is it too early for a baseball hot stove Thread???

[Dan Gould]

I can't see Minny taking on Lowell's contract.

I didn't mention that the rumor included the Sox picking up some of Lowell's contract. At the same time, I've also heard that Minnesota was interested in Lowell, with or without Burnett, when the Marlins were shopping those two at the trade deadline.

But it does look like Lowell is expected to stay and take over third base. I expect Renteria to return to his normal defensive level and that means we'll have two Gold Gloves on the left side of the infield. Of course, so do the Yanks, but still ...

[Dan Gould]

Well here's a damper for Red Sox Nation:

Ortiz says Manny's not returning to Red Sox

Associated Press

Posted: 5 minutes ago

SANTO DOMINGO (AP) - One of baseball's most fearsome offensive duos in 2005 — Red Sox's David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez — appears to be history.

According to Ortiz, "Manny is not returning to Boston."

"Manny is living through a difficult situation (in Boston) that only he and his family know and he no longer wants to play there," said Ortiz after arriving early Monday in the Dominican Republic.

Ramirez has asked for a trade in each of his five seasons with the Red Sox, but apparently this one is definite.

"I spoke with him last week before he left for Brazil and he told me that he wants to go to a team in the West," Ortiz, the Red Sox's designated hitter, said.

Ramirez has three years worth $160 million remaining on his contract and eight seasons with the Red Sox. Because of his status as a player with 10 seasons in the major leagues and five with the same team, he is allowed to approve any trade.

"I found out that that they are doing everything possible to trade him," Ortiz said.

The Los Angeles Angeles of Anaheim have been named as a possible destination for Ramirez, as well as the New York Mets.

And here I was figuring that if the Mets trade for Delgado, there's no place for Manny to go.

[Matthew]

Well here's a damper for Red Sox Nation:

Ortiz says Manny's not returning to Red Sox

Associated Press

Posted: 5 minutes ago

Ramirez has three years worth $160 million remaining on his contract and eight seasons with the Red Sox.

Boy, I knew salaries were high!!!!

Edited November 22, 2005 by Matthew

[Dave James]

Interesting article from Buster Olney on the ESPN website:

The departure of Theo Epstein was the topic of conversation between two Yankees executives recently, and they agreed: The flak over Epstein could come back and bite them in 2006, because the Red Sox's front office would go above and beyond to prove they could win without Epstein.

If Epstein had remained, the team would have continued on a more conservative and -- and in the long run, perhaps more effective -- route of player development, with the budget constraints hardened. But now the Red Sox ownership, the Yankees' executives agreed, will be more aggressive, in the wake of Epstein's departure. They'll take more chances, perhaps expand their budget, do more to make sure the team will win in 2006, the first year A.T. (After Theo).

Now the Red Sox are moving close to a first big strike, with the impending acquisition of Josh Beckett, and we are accustomed to seeing the Yankees hammering away in response. However, what the Yankees might do is bite the bullet, instead of firing back.

Sure, the Yankees would love to sign B.J. Ryan to be a set-up man, but don't have any real hope that is going to happen. They'd love to add Brian Giles to their outfield, but they're fully aware he could sign someplace else. But in this first winter since the organization has rededicated itself to the philosophy of developing and even keeping prospects -- an approach that led to the dynasty of 1996-2001 -- the Yankees might make only marginal changes. "There is a perception that things haven't gone our way this offseason," Brian Cashman said Tuesday morning. "But everything that's happened so far is not unexpected to me."

The Yankees could have dived into the Josh Beckett sweepstakes and could have lost, anyway, given Boston's willingness to dangle top prospect Hanley Ramirez. But once the Marlins asked for Chien-Ming Wang and other prospects, the Yankees checked out. They want to keep Wang, top pitching prospect Philip Hughes and second baseman Robinson Cano, and right now, they don't have the depth in their farm system that the Red Sox have to even consider those types of trades without further damaging the organization long-term.

In addition, the Yankees would've had to absorb Mike Lowell, who would've been just one more high-priced older player thrown onto the pile of similar players the team has accumulated -- and the Yankees wouldn't have even had a natural place for Lowell to play.

There will be similar opportunities in the weeks ahead, such as a potential deal for Carlos Delgado, but for now, the Yankees intend to hold fast to their current course of rebuilding the farm system and passing up the opportunity for expensive stars. The weak free-agent market appears to provide only imperfect solutions: They have no interest in A.J. Burnett because of the enormous gamble he might represent, at a $50 million price tag, and they have little interest in Johnny Damon unless he's willing to sign with New York at a bargain rate, which is highly unlikely.

That could mean going into next spring training with Bubba Crosby penciled in as the center fielder. That could mean Jaret Wright will be switched into middle relief, with the Yankees hoping that either Wright or Tanyon Sturtze or Scott Proctor develops into the needed frontline set-up man. That could mean "operating like Billy Beane runs the Athletics -- finding solutions in spring training, or during the season," says one club official.

After getting such surprising results from Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon last season, club officials feel better about taking chances like that. Right now, the team is not operating with the manic need to fill every roster spot with an ex-All-Star.

They've still got a deep wealth of talent, that lethal lineup of Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Gary Sheffield, Hideki Matsui and the developing Cano, and whether or not they spend money this winter, the Yankees will still be in position to make midseason deals (for a Mike Cameron, for example).

But for once, the Yankees might actually pass on the compulsion to immediately fire back in their war against the Red Sox. They're trying to build and save their ammunition for another day.

Up over and out

[Dan Gould]

Let me ask you this, Dave:

Will you be happy going into next year with Bubba Crosby as the starting centerfielder?

And in the wake of the Marlins trade, there are indications that Cano could go to Florida for Delgado. Does that gibe with the supposed "new approach"?

[Chalupa]

Whoa. Check this out....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...yson&id=2232133

Mets, many others, can enjoy tax-free offseason

By Jayson Stark

ESPN.com

Archive

Since finals are approaching, it's time for a little baseball-economics quiz to help us make sure you're fully educated on a key development in the 2005-06 offseason:

If the Mets' payroll inflates to, say, $150 million next season, how much luxury tax would they have to pay -- if the 2006 tax threshold is $136.5 million?

A) $3.04 million (22.5 percent)?

B) $4.05 million (30 percent)?

C) $5.4 million (40 percent)?

D) Way more than that, just because they're making Bud Selig really nervous?

E) Zero dollars (nada percent), because of a little-known technicality in the Basic Agreement?

OK, kids. Pencils down. All those answering "E" pass this test.

And if you answered that correctly, either you've spent way too much time reading the Basic Agreement online (and feel free; it's here) ... or you cheated.

But it's true. No matter how much cash the Mets insert in the wallets of free agents, Manny Ramirez, Carlos Delgado or all those talented and charming players they already have added this winter, their luxury tax next year is guaranteed to be exactly ... zilch.

Same with the Angels, who were No. 4 (just behind the Mets) in the 2005 payroll standings. Or the Phillies, who were No. 5. Or any other team not known as the Yankees or Red Sox.

That's because -- as first noted by CNN.com's Chris Isidore -- back in the crazed pre-agreement hours leading to the 2002 labor deal, the frenzied labor negotiators inserted a mysterious clause into the impending deal.

That clause says, essentially (in language way more complicated than this) that any team that didn't pay luxury tax in the 2005 season is 100 percent off the hook in 2006.

Doesn't matter by how much that team blows by the payroll threshold. Doesn't matter how many different tax rates are listed in the agreement for next season. Doesn't matter whether that team paid the luxury tax in any previous season. None of that matters.

So, unbeknownst to most of the sport, the only teams that face a potential tax bill next year are the Yankees (guaranteed to be taxed at 40 percent, as four-time offenders) and the Red Sox (who paid this year but probably won't pay next year unless their payroll goes up by $13 million). But that's it.

All righty then. We know what you're thinking: How the heck did a strange rule like this find its way into this labor agreement -- with just about nobody noticing?

Well, here's the story, as we've heard it:

You might remember that in the previous labor deal -- the first one to contain one of these payroll taxes -- the last year of the agreement was completely tax-free.

OK, even if you don't remember, trust us. It was.

Well, because of that wrinkle in the old deal, the union was pressing for the same free ride to be included in the current agreement. The idea was to give the market a year to adjust, in case the tax turned out to suppress player salaries more than anticipated.

Oh, and one more thing: That one-year gap was supposed to establish the principle that the two sides weren't necessarily committed to this tax forever and ever.

So naturally, as negotiations heated up, this issue remained a thorny little tug o' war. The owners didn't want any year to have no tax. The union was digging in. So in the end, they did what negotiators are supposed to do: They compromised.

And this was the compromise: No matter how much tax a team paid in 2003 or 2004, if it dipped under the threshold in 2005, it was safe from the tax man in 2006.

"I admit it's kind of quirky," says one baseball man who was involved in those talks. "But that's the compromise we came up with."

So now here we are, more than three years later. And here's that compromise, ready to take hold for this, the final year of the labor deal. But when we polled high-ranking officials of four teams last week, only one had ever even heard of this rule.

Why? Because MLB never mentioned it at the time the deal was done -- and hasn't advertised it since, even now that the time to apply that rule has arrived.

Matter of fact, MLB has never even advised the Mets (or the Angels or Phillies, either) that it could directly affect them -- and save them millions of bucks. Why? Because it obviously was hoping nobody would bother to read the fine print.

Oops. Somebody did. We didn't mean to blow anybody's cover. But someone needs to read this stuff -- and let the world know the rules. Sorry about that.

Meanwhile, there's one more reason this rule could be even more significant than it might appear:

We've been hearing murmuring beneath the surface that enough people in the sport are so happy with the current labor deal that they'd be interested in taking advantage of another clause in the agreement -- a clause that allows the two sides simply to extend the deal for 2007.

But if they just extend it, they would be extending another tax-free year along with it (a potentially monstrous advantage for the Red Sox in 2007 if they pay no tax in 2006). Or they could negotiate yet another compromise on that particular issue.

Now it isn't likely the Mets will actually add enough dollars to their payroll (which was about $101 million this year) to have this wrinkle kick in. But it's possible.

Which means that, with a new TV network ready to hit the air, Mets GM Omar Minaya and his good friends, the Wilpons, have been handed the right to go on their very own fun-filled free-agent supermarket sweep.

All thanks to the Wacky World of Labor Deals. Gotta love it.

[BERIGAN]

Carlos Delgado wouldn't stand up for the national anthem when he played for Toronto, how could he play for Steinbrenner????

[Johnny E]

Carlos Delgado wouldn't stand up for the national anthem when he played for Toronto, how could he play for Steinbrenner????

Exactly! That's why he's gonna be a Mariner next season.

[Dave James]

I've been knocked over by feathers before, but do it to me one more time if the Yanks let Cano get away. Sure, Delgato will generate massive offensive numbers, but if Cashman has a story and he's stickin' to it, this won't happen. Delgato would just be more of the same...adding superstars and not caring about chemistry. Of course I wouldn't be very happy with Crosby starting in center, but if it gets the Yanks moving in a better direction over the long run, I can deal with it.

I'll tell you one thing. To spite the Red Sox and take some of the wind out of their sails, I wouldn't be surprised to see George up the ante on Damon. Yes, he's that vindictive.

Up over and out.

[chris olivarez]

I hear the Dodgers are in the mix. I've got an idea-Delgado for Hee Sop Choi. A course the fish would want a ton of prospects for Delgado and I don't think he's worth it. At best he'll be a year or two rental like J.D. Drew and he'll probably be on the DL as much. I've got another idea let LA throw Milton Bradley in the mix and we'll call it good.

[Chalupa]

ESPN is eporting the Mets and the Marlins have worked out a deal for Delgado.

[Johnny E]

Manny targets Angels, M’s

November 23

Boston Herald: "Manny Ramirez’ fondest wish – currently – is to play for the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim or the Seattle Mariners. "

Edited November 23, 2005 by Johnny E

[Quincy]

Manny targets Angels, M’s

November 23

Boston Herald: "Manny Ramirez’ fondest wish – currently – is to play for the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim or the Seattle Mariners. "

Get out! I guess he wants to be far away from the eastern media. Or something.

Whew, I'm trying to imagine Manny patrolling LF in Safeco. Huh...I just can't picture him in a Mariner uniform. Pretty shocking news, I had no idea he felt that way about us.

[Saint Vitus]

How's this for a trade?

Manny for Barry

[Dan Gould]

The Red Sox have a problem.  Manny says he wants to go, so they've lost bargaining room there already, the Angels have apparently lost interest and the Mets appear to be the only game in town.  The Sox have a problem as to what they can get back.  I'd rather not gut my team to get him.  I'd rather build slowly.

←

Man, I wish the guys in the White Sox front office would quit sitting on their wallets and at least make an offer. I mean hell, to see Manny in a pair of clean sox would just be heaven.

This idea of speed, defense and hot pitching is great until a pitcher gets hurt. And then what? We go to Marte or some other guy who sits on the bench most of the time for a reason?

Sheesh.

This Juan Pierre guy looks interesting though. Hits for average and runs like Pods? Too bad the Marlins want Rowand in return.

Who said you can't get a big bopper for your lineup?

Looks like Jurassic Carl is history:

Thome dealt to White Sox for Rowand

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2234843

Guess you're in the market for a centerfielder now.

I'm assuming that Thome becomes DH, not first baseman. Maybe they traded for him as insurance against Konerko flying the coop.

And I think its clear Manny ain't going to New York now, with Delgado on his way, unless that is Minaya is truly willing to break the bank.

[Dan Gould]

Seems like I'm talking to myself lately, but I gotta say I am pleased with how the Josh Beckett trade worked itself out. Not clear yet if the Sox played hardball or if they were legitimately concerned about Beckett's medical records, but getting the Marlins to throw in Guillermo Mota for a Single A prospect is a pretty good add-on:

1. Before he was traded to the Marlins, Mota was one of the best set-up men in the NL, posting an ERA under 2 in one season, and just over 2 in the next for the Dodgers.

2. The Yanks were targetting Mota for a trade, but we got him instead.

So, the Sox have added Beckett, Mota and Lowell.

The Yanks have held on to Sturtze and Matsui.

It may be early, but I like how the off-season has shaped up so far, even with Theo's unceremonial departure.

[Matthew]

Carlos Delgado wouldn't stand up for the national anthem when he played for Toronto, how could he play for Steinbrenner????

Exactly! That's why he's gonna be a Mariner next season.

Guess Carlos realized that it was a no-win situation if he didn't stand in New York..

NEW YORK -- Now that he's been traded to the New York Mets, Carlos Delgado says he is willing to stand on the field during the playing of "God Bless America."

After putting on a Mets jersey at a Shea Stadium news conference Monday, Delgado said he spoke about his anti-war protest with New York chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon.

"I gave him my views on that subject and I also said I would not put myself in front of the team," Delgado said. "The Mets have a policy that everybody should stand for 'God Bless America' and I will be there. I will not cause any distractions to the ballclub."

While playing for the Toronto Blue Jays and then with the Florida Marlins last year, Delgado avoided standing on the field when "God Bless America" was played, staying in the dugout, runway or clubhouse.

"The reason why I didn't stand for 'God Bless America' was because I didn't like the way they tied 'God Bless America' and 9-11 to the war in Iraq, in baseball," he said when he joined the Marlins in January.

Wilpon said the matter had been discussed during negotiations when Delgado was a free agent after the 2004 season. Wilpon said Delgado promised to follow whatever policy was set by manager Willie Randolph.

"His comment was: If Willie and the Mets have rules, he will follow the team rule," Wilpon said Monday. "He's not going to put himself before the team. So he's going to have his own political views, which he's going to keep to himself."

Delgado said there will be a transition for New York fans and their feelings about him.

"I'm sure there are going to be times where they're going to cheer, I'm sure they're going to be times when they're going to boo," he said.

BTW: I'm sooooo tired of football, bring on spring training

[Johnny E]

BTW: I'm sooooo tired of football, bring on spring training

I hear ya' brotha. Football blows.

[PHILLYQ]

BTW: I'm sooooo tired of football, bring on spring training

I hear ya' brotha. Football blows.

About 60 days to pitchers and catchers?

[Brad]

Looks like the Mets may be almost ready to challenge the Braves. I hear they're still hoping for Manny. Notwithstanding two good signings, they still need to fix the catcher and second base situations and get another outfielder. The bullpen is a problem but then whose isn't? They also lost their premier pinch hitter so they have made strides but I don't know that they're there yet.

[Matthew]

It'll be interesting to see what the loss of Leo Mazzone will mean for the Braves, the Mets just might take the division this year, which would be great -- I'm tired of the Braves' flaming out every October.

[Dave James]

Here's an interesting speculative piece from the ESPN website:

The story came and went in a cyber-second, like some massive wave crashing onto the beach, full of sound and fury only to retreat without a sound. Derek Jeter or Alex Rodriguez to center field? A crazy, organization-rattling idea, for sure, except that Yankees manager Joe Torre made it disappear by claiming his comments to a Reuters reporter were taken out of context.

By the end of the news cycle everyone was convinced Jeter and A-Rod are staying put, and another day was crossed off the Yankees' winter calendar. But their center-field crisis is still no closer to being resolved.

From his shortstop position, Derek Jeter has been relentless in his pursuit of popups.Brian Giles apparently is not going to New York, never was. Johnny Damon is asking for seven years, to which one Yankee executive says he and agent Scott Boras "have their heads in the clouds." Milton Bradley is a long shot -- "obviously, the guy's got issues," says the insider -- and as long as the Bombers are holding onto Chien-Ming Wang and Robinson Cano, they have no shot of prying Torii Hunter away from the Twins.

And if all else fails, there's always Bubba Crosby. That brings the Yankees back to Torre's hypothetical quip about moving one of his shortstops to center field. What's really so crazy about the idea, given that the Yankees are almost out of options?

Jeter and A-Rod are gifted athletes who could make the switch and actually improve the Yankees' overall defense. Both are quicker than Crosby with superior throwing arms. But without saying so, it was Jeter whom Torre was imagining as his next center fielder.

At 31, he's one year older than A-Rod but still faster in an all-out sprint, more graceful leaving his feet and has that extraordinary radar for fly balls and pop-ups, even with his back to the ball.

Of course, we hear the voices of protest, the loudest of which belongs to GM Brian Cashman. "The guy's a Gold Glove winner, why would we make a switch?" he said by telephone on Tuesday. The reason is because Jeter is that talented, and, for all Cashman's efforts to begin the post-Bernie Williams era, no one else looks quite as good as the Yankee captain.

It all goes back to that obsessive need to catch everything in the air -- evidenced by his crashing into the stands for a foul ball against the Red Sox on July 1, 2004. Jeter, bloodied and bruised, all but won the Gold Glove that year in a single play. He was just as consumed in a May 25 collision with Robinson Cano, climbing all over the rookie second baseman to grab a Marcus Thames soft flare into shallow center, snuffing out a Tigers rally.

"Phenomenal" is what A-Rod said of Jeter that night, shaking his head in admiration. The shortstop pursues fly balls with the frenzy of a man chasing after a bus. That's a trait few shortstops possess. Not many center fielders have it, either, but if Jeter can work that magic diving into the stands or behind second base, you could imagine him navigating the wall in right- and left-center, getting to balls that outdistanced Williams in 2005.

The question, naturally, is whether the Yankees could possibly convince Jeter to begin a new life in the outfield. The answer is, of course not. They won't even ask.

He's branded as their leader, no mere man but The Man. Jeter is the franchise's most marketable commodity playing the most challenging position. If he wouldn't surrender shortstop for A-Rod in 2004, why would he do it now?

Even broaching the subject would be political suicide for anyone in the organization, Torre included. The Yankees learned a lesson watching the war that was waged at Camden Yards before Cal Ripken finally realized his diminishing range made a move to third base a necessity -- for his sake, not the Orioles.

Only great athletes can play center field. And if it was good enough for Mickey Mantle to go from shortstop to center field, why not Derek Jeter?

In this case, though, Jeter wouldn't be abandoning short because of any deficiency. Nor would it represent a concession to A-Rod. Instead, Jeter is a solution to a problem the Yankees haven't been able to solve. And, while Jeter would (naturally) be opposed to the idea, the Yankees could spin the switch thusly:

Only great athletes can play center field. And if it was good enough for Mickey Mantle to go from shortstop to center field, why not Derek Jeter?

After all, it was Torre himself who invoked this precedent during his interview with Reuters. Whether the manager was speaking off the top of his head or giving away in-house secrets, his logic was flawless. And notice that Torre spoke of Jeter and A-Rod as his "shortstops." Two of them. That's the other weapon at the Yankees' disposal -- move Jeter to the outfield, where he'll excel, and Torre has another Gold Glover to replace him.

So who would the Yankees chase for the infield vacancy? Nomar Garciaparra would be a possibility, having played 34 games at third base last year. So is Troy Glaus, who is being shopped by the Diamondbacks. Or else the Yankees can clear a path for prospect Eric Duncan, although he struggled last year at Double-A Trenton.

Point is, the Yankees do have options at third, which is more than they can say about center field. If Jeter-to-center field was really that crazy, Torre shouldn't have allowed himself to be drawn into a conversation about it.

Then again, maybe Torre knew exactly what he was saying. If so, the trial balloon is hereby afloat.

Up over and out.

[chris olivarez]

AP reports that the Chicago White Sox have signed Paul Konerko to a $60 million,five year contract.

[Dan Gould]

If the White Sox have signed Konerko, the Sox really have no choice but to keep Manny. Konerko was the only other player I could see giving at least some protection to Big Papi, especially at Fenway.

As far as Jeter to centerfield, the Times had a much better suggestion of what to do for third base: Sign Billy Mueller. Excellent defense, won a batting title, and a guy who plays the game right. Without the histrionics, he'd bring some professionalism they've lacked since Cry Baby O'Neil retired.

At the same time, I am not at all convinced that Jeter has the better arm over Crosby. Few converted infielders turn into Dwight Evens (although its true that Sheffield started out an infielder), and Crosby has always been an outfielder. But certainly Jeter would handle the position as well as or better, and you wouldn't have the blackhole otherwise known as Bubba's Bat in the lineup.

The Yanks will deny, deny, deny ... but I think this story has legs at least until they find an acceptable alternative to starting the season with Bubba Crosby in the lineup every day.

[Matthew]

Actually, I like the idea of ARod in center.. He as a better arm that Jeter, and the Yankee suck-ups can go into nirvana saying how "ARod enters the long line of Yankee greats in centefieldr, Dimaggio, Mantle, Bobby Mercer. Centerfield at Yankee Stadium is the most difficult outfield position in baseball because of the wide expanse of grass, blah, blah, blah..."

It's nice that even in the winter I can still hate the Yankee's.