Can I Get Some Help!

[HWright]

During 1996-1998 Polydor/Universal/whatever put out a series of funk reissues under the Chronicles banner. Included in this series were a set of James Brown collections. I have managed to find copies of the first three discs (disc one covers 1964-1969, disc two is 1970 and disc three is 1971-1975) but find that the fourth set (covering 1975-1983) called "Dead on the Heavy Funk" is not only out of print but going for about $60 online.

I wonder if anyone on the Board would be willing to trade a copy (used or new) with me in exchange for something else or knows how I could get hold of a used copy for a reasonable price.

I would also be interested to hear if anyone knows why this set is rarer than the others from the series.

Thanks.

"Dead on the Heavy Funk, 1975-1983"

Disc: 1

1. Sex Machine Part I & Part II

2. Hustle!!! (Dead On It)

3. Your Love

4. Hot (I Need To Be Loved, Loved, Loved, Loved)

5. Woman

6. Medley: Get Up Offa That Thing/Release The Pressure

7. I Refuse To Lose (7 Inch Mix)

8. Bodyheat

9. Kiss In '77 (Previously Unreleased Live Version)

10. Give Me Some Skin

11. Bessie

12. If You Don't Give A Doggone About It

Disc: 2

1. Jam 1980's (Live Version)

2. The Spank

3. Nature Part 1

4. Eyesight

5. I Never, Never Will Forget (Previously Unreleased Long Version)

6. For Goodness Sakes, Look At Those Cakes

7. A Man Understands

8. It's Too Funky In Here (12 Inch Version)

9. Regrets

10. Rapp Payback (Where Iz Moses?) (12 Inch Version)

11. Bring It On...Bring It On

Edited November 16, 2005 by HWright

[Stefan Wood]

I just recently sold a copy on ebay. Damn, I wish your email came 1 week sooner.......

There is also the 2 cd set called the JB's.

A 2 cd set called Funky Divas.

And a 2 cd set of James Brown instrumentals.

The funny thing about the Dead on the Heavy Funk set is that the music isn't all that hot -- JB had peaked before this, and these tunes were mostly fair to middling, with a few exceptions.

Edited November 16, 2005 by Stefan Wood

[HWright]

I just recently sold a copy on ebay.  Damn, I wish your email came 1 week sooner.......

There is also the 2 cd set called the JB's. 

A 2 cd set called Funky Divas.

And a 2 cd set of James Brown instrumentals.

The funny thing about the Dead on the Heavy Funk set is that the music isn't all that hot -- JB had peaked before this, and these tunes were mostly fair to middling, with a few exceptions.

←

Yeah, he was in decline during that period. I have the "Star Time" box set and there are some tracks from that period on the fourth disc and I agree with your assessment ("mostly fair to middling, with a few exceptions")

Still, I'm always curious about these things...a great artist is at his peak..then he goes into a gradual, irreversible decline...how did it happen? why did it happen? when did it happen? etc. and that's why I like to hear more.

I have the 2-disc JBs set and have seen the Funky Divas set. I once had a copy of the instrumental collection (but sold it). It's called "Soul Pride" as I recall and is now pretty rare as well. Don't recall how much it's going for these days though...

Edited November 16, 2005 by HWright

[Harold_Z]

I once had a copy of the instrumental collection (but sold it). It's called "Soul Pride" as I recall and is now pretty rare as well. Don't recall how much it's going for these days though...

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Is that the instrumental set that consited of 2 lps originally on Smash where JB played organ?

[HWright]

I once had a copy of the instrumental collection (but sold it). It's called "Soul Pride" as I recall and is now pretty rare as well. Don't recall how much it's going for these days though...

←

Is that the instrumental set that consited of 2 lps originally on Smash where JB played organ?

←

It may contain tracks from those sessions (although I don't think so), but it's by no means a straight reissue of those two lps (one of which is called "Grits and Soul," I think). It's more of a best of collection containing material from all his instrumental albums (many of which he played organ on) and best instrumental tracks from albums that had instrumentals and non-instrumentals...(Strangely enough they did not include JB's version of "The Sidewinder." ) Here is the track listing:

Soul Pride: The Instrumentals (1960-69)

1 Hold It Butler, Scott 2:09

2 The Scratch Alston 1:44

3 Suds Kendrick 2:19

4 Cross Firing Brown 2:21

5 Limbo Jimbo Brown 3:13

6 Joggin' Along Brown 2:24

7 Doin' the Limbo Brown 2:27

8 Choo-Choo (Locomotion) Brown 2:53

9 (Can You) Feel It, Pt. 1 Brown 2:54

10 Soul Food, Pt. 1 & 2 Wright 4:05

11 Evil Wright 2:46

12 Infatuation Wright 4:28

13 Headache Wright 2:21

14 Every Beat of My Heart Otis 5:00

15 Try Me Brown 3:06

16 New Breed Brown, Jones 3:46

17 Jabo Brown, Jones 2:57

18 Fat Bag Brown, Jones 4:18

19 Sumpin' Else Brown, Jones 5:58

20 Devil's Den [live] Wright 5:56

21 The King Brown, Jones 6:18

22 Mashed Potatoes '66 Brown 5:04

23 Gittin' a Little Hipper Brown, Ellis, Hobgood 2:47

24 Go on Now Brown 5:51

25 In the Middle, Pt. 1 Ellis, Hobgood 2:41

26 Tighten Up [live] Bell, Buttier 7:16

27 The Popcorn Brown 3:01

28 Soul Pride, Pt, 1 & 2 Brown, Ellis 4:28

29 Sudsy Brown, Ellis 4:41

30 The Chicken Ellis 4:04

31 The Chase Brown, Hobgood :29

32 Come on in the House Ellis 2:30

33 Lowdown Popcorn [buttered Version] Brown 4:29

34 Top of the Stack Brown, Ellis 2:48

35 Ain't It Funky Now, Pts. 1 & 2 Brown 7:11

36 Funky Drummer [The Original Tambourine Mix] Brown 9:27

Edited November 16, 2005 by HWright

[Harold_Z]

Thanks, HWright.

Sidewinder is on the lp I have (one of those two Smash lps). I'm not home now, but I think the title of the lp is Today and Tomorrow. The one I DON'T have of those two is Grits And Soul - which I think was the name of the cd reissue with both of those lps on. In any event I wish I had picked it up when I saw it. Now I'll be on the lookout for both of that AND Soul Pride.

[JSngry]

Yeah, he was in decline during that period. I have the "Star Time" box set and there are some tracks from that period on the fourth disc and I agree with your assessment ("mostly fair to middling, with a few exceptions")

Still, I'm always curious about these things...a great artist is at his peak..then he goes into a gradual, irreversible decline...how did it happen? why did it happen? when did it happen? etc.  and that's why I like to hear more.

←

Well, I've got most of the original LPs from this period, and the compilation, which I also have (dorry, just the one copy, had no idea it was such a "hot" item, I'll keep my eyes open for another copy for you) is actually a godsend in terms of culling all the good stuff from the period. I think that the best of it is pretty damn fine, anf that there's more of it than just a few cuts, but the point that this was a pretty damn depressing period for JB is well taken nevertheless. Some of those albums, entire albums mind you, are pretty awful.

How did it happen? I think it was a combination of Brown's oversized ego not letting him accept the fact that the music he helped spawn was becoming more sophisticated musically, the natural evolution of public tastes, and just plain ol' running out of ideas. Put them all together, and you a classic case of "loss of direction".

Brown was pretty vocal during the latter part of the 70s in blaming his record label for forcing him into some kind of different bag, but the evidence suggests that he was still calling the shots, and that he mostly didn't have a clue as to what he needed to do to respond to the changing market. On the occasions when he did get it right, the results were either a hit ("Get Up Off That Thing" was a pretty big hit as a single) or else too rawly produced for the market's tastes of the time.

I mean, 70s albums like Sex Machine Today & Take A Look At Those Cakes will groove you to death as much as the old stuff, but they're still full of the same old same old - nonstop vamps with next to no "literal" lyrics other than a few catch phrases and JB rapping to the band. At first, this formula worked because it was some intense shit - you got the feeling that you were listening to a man harnessing the power of the universe in real time and then doling as much of it out at once as his mind and body coud stand at any one second. But as time went by, it sounded more and more like he had gotten comfortable with the routine, and what once was a burning slice of spontaniety had become a formula, and a pretty basic one at that.

Truthfully, I think you can hear the ennui beginning to settle in towards the end of the Fred Wesley era, but there was still enough residual mojo to make it work for all concerned for a little while. But once the edge was fully gone, so was the magic, and people began to laugh at the simplistic nature of it all (Franklyn Ajaye had a brutal bit about JB on one of his albums back in the day. Not as brutal as his bit on Barry White, though...). In a few short years, James Brown had gone from Force Of Nature to Laughing Stock in the eyes of his community. Other bands were bringing the funk just as hard (well, harder than JB was, not harder than JB had), and they also delivered the "pleasures" of real lyrics and musical diversity in terms of arrangements and production values.

Brown at first responded by not responding, and then by grafting the most superficial elements of disco/new funk onto his same basic formula. Whatever the reasons - his own musical ignorance, his own personal stubborness (which I suspect to be the main reason), or a lack of budgetary support from Polydor (unlikely at first, but more likely as the decade wore on and sales continued to plummet), Brown's output in the 70s was mostly a series of one album after another of poor material equally poorly executed. "Dire" doesn't begin to sum up some of these albums...

Still, there were moments, and a (very) few really fine whole albums, such as the two mentioned above and most of Jam/1980's, that made up for in cold stone groove what they lack in edge. This compilation collects most of them. Find yourself a copy of it and the severely overlooked live set Hot On The One, and you'll have pretty much all you really need from this period of Brown's career.

[Harold_Z]

I pretty much agree with everything Jim said there, except maybe I think the decline started a little earlier.

The lp on Smash was Today And Yesterday.

I was close.

[JSngry]

Well, yeah. The Polydor contract (huge, iirc) started of w/"Hot Pants" and yielded a lot of good singles as well as some dynamite, if at times "sprawling", albums (Hell in particular stands out as one that is equal parts masterpiece and crap, although the cover is about as classic as it could be), but I agree that in retrospect you can hear the decline beginning pretty early on into it. The cat was seemingly releasing a new single every thirty minutes, and radio was playing all of 'em for just about as long, with the good/great ones sticking around. But LORD was there a bunch of filler getting hyped. Sooner or later, the trance was bound to burst.

[HWright]

I think Jim's comments are very well put.

Another explanation that I've at times considered is that JB's style of leadership tended to drive away a lot of talented musicians in the long run and while some came back (Fred Wesley and Maceo both quit only to later return), others such as Bootsy Collins would never return. And this represented, ultimately, a great loss for JB.

Based on my memory of the credits from the fourth disc of "Star Time," it seems to me that the real breaking point was when Fred and Maceo left JB to join George Clinton and Parliament around 1975. I don't think his band was ever the same after that...and that this was a real blow to JB because outside of being two excellent musicians with whom JB had a great rapport, Fred was JB's musical director. I don't know who replaced him after that, by the way...It's not something I recall having read about one way or another...It seems also that the trend that began in 1971 of using studio musicians (some of them jazz musicians) instead of the touring band continued in the years that followed too and while I don't think the results were always bad, in the long run this must have had an impact on the results and on JB's creativity.

Edited November 17, 2005 by HWright

[JSngry]

Another explanation that I've at times considered is that JB's style of leadership tended to drive away a lot of talented musicians in the long run and while some came back (Fred Wesley and Maceo both quit only to later return), others such as Bootsy Collins would never return. And this represented, ultimately, a great loss for JB. 

Based on my memory of the credits from the fourth disc of "Star Time," it seems to me that the real breaking point was when Fred and Maceo left JB to join George Clinton and Parliament around 1975...

←

Have you read this book?

Highly recommended if you haven't. It goes into a lot of detail about the Bootsy excursion, which really only lasted about a year. And it goes into detail about a lot of other things as well. A fasinating read.

Consider also that when Fred left JB for P-Funk, the hits had already stopped coming for Brown. "Get Up Off That Thing" was a bit of a "comeback" hit, and that ws in 1976. Before that, you gotta go back to 1974 and "Papa don't Take No Mess" for a genuine, bona-fide James Brown hit. A lot had happened in those two years, and the bottom fell out of the Brown operation real quickly. The most infamous incident was the trip to Africa for the Ali-Foreman spectacular. Brown had the plane so overloaded that it couldn't take off safely, yet he insisted that it do so anyway. Cooler heads finally prevailed, iirc, but it became clear to many of the people around him that the run was over and that the leader had lost his mind once and for all. MAss defections followed, and, without any momentum, replacements were not of the same caliber. Jimmy Nolan stuck around, God bless him (although not entirely for altrusistic reasons, as Wesley's book reveals), as did St. Clair Pickney, but otherwise, it soon became a ship adrift, with nobody really interested in setting it aright.

[HWright]

Jim:

I think I browsed Fred's book in the library at one point, but I never bought a copy when it came out. I'll see if I can get one now. Apart from JB's autobiography which seems to be everywhere, books about JB and his band seem to be hard to find, unless one looks on line.

Henry.

Edited November 17, 2005 by HWright

[Stefan Wood]

JB also had some serious tax problems at that point in time, so that certainly contributed to his creative decline. A guilty pleasure though, is the entire lp "For Goodness Sakes Take a Look at Them Cakes" with its cheesecake cover, but man the entire album smokes! I consider this to be his last great lp, a successful blend of his funk with the more popular disco.

[JSngry]

A good deal on Fred's book: http://www.dustygroove.com/books.htm#371349

[danasgoodstuff]

Artistic decline can indeed be a fascinatingly complex, if frustrating, thing (see my postings on the Band). Personally I feel that James and the band peaked in late '69, with much greatness both before and after, what say you?

[Harold_Z]

I wouldn't narrow it down into such a narrow period. Somewhere around 1970 or in the early 70s does it for me - and I agree...MUCH greatness before and after.

[John L]

It would be hard for me to agree that James Brown was in decline until after Payback, in fact probably until after Papa Don't Take No Mess. Then there is the incredible groove on Get Up Off of That Thing.

Edited November 17, 2005 by John L

[danasgoodstuff]

While I could agree that James was operating on a pretty high level up through Papa Don't Take No Mess, it's only recently that I'd go as late as 69 for the peak playing period. It could be argued that the last really visionary inovation was Cold Sweat and everything thereafter was just funky recapitulation. In some ways I like the first Live at the Apollo (Oct '62) as well as anything he ever did and that's years before he introduced the brand new bag, although the seeds are there...

[JSngry]

It could be argued that the last really visionary inovation was Cold Sweat...

←

I'd give that honor (if only in strictly musical terms) to "I Got The Feelin'", which broke the beat up a helluva lot more than did "Cold Sweat", which in turn had broken the beat up a helluva lot more than did "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag". "Give It Up Or Turnit A Loose" palyed the same games, but that was more spontaneous a creation, and not as tight ensemble-wise.

Thing is, if you believe Wesley's book, Brown just came at the band with very rough concepts, and it fell to the M.D. to make them literal. You can hear this on the first take of "Cold Sweat" where Brown's going on and on about hitting it "on the one", when it's obvious that, although he wants to FEEL it on the one that he actually wants it PLAYED on the two.

Now, to make this relevant to the point at hand, most of those 66-69 classics were "translated" by Pee Wee Ellis. After he left, you had the Collins Brothers Crew for a year, and then Fred took the reigns. I personally think that Pee Wee was overall the hippest of the bunch, and had the most vision in terms of breaking up the beat. Once he left, the stuff was still funky as hell, but in a less radical manner.

[danasgoodstuff]

Pee Wee may well be the hippest MD james ever had, but for me the peak of the band as a well-oiled machine is the breif period in late 69 after Pee Wee left and vefore the Collins bros. come in in early 70. This period that produced "Funky Drummer", "It's a New Day", "Brother Rap", and "Ain't It Funky Now". Maceo and Kush were co-MDs but the impression I have is that they were functioning in a more or less co-op mode. Then they all bailed on the godfather to form Maceo and All the Kings Men and the Collins bros. and friends from Cincinati got the call, walked onstage in front of an audience who'd been waiting for hours for the band to show up and James yells out "Cold Sweat, hit it!".