Grant Green

[bertrand]

In his liner notes to Grant Green's First Session CD, Bob Belden seems to imply that the track entitled 'Grant's First Stand' is redone (presumably under another title) on what was Grant's first official album as a leader, also entitled Grant's First Stand. None of the three Green originals on the latter album has that title, and none match the song with that title from the First Session album.

So what was Belden referring to? Is this a piece Grant recorded on another album, and he just got mixed up?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think Belden was mixed up. None of the originals on "Grant's first stand sounds anything like "Grant's first stand" on "First session". And, according to the 1988 edition of the Blue Note discography, there were no unissued tracks from the 28 Jan 1961 session.

To my ear, "Grant's first stand" sounds a lot like "He's a real gone guy"!

MG

[Soul Stream]

Yeah, "Grant's First Stand" from the "First Session" CD is a singular composition. Just a throwaway head played on that day it sounds like to my ears, never to be played again. Grant probably forgot it by the time they left the studio that day. Actually, the song it reminds me of the most is Jimmy Smiths "The Boss" which was done 10 years later.

[bertrand]

So I guess Belden was confused. I'll assume that's the case, unless someone else comes in with an explanation. I agree it's hardly an intricate composition.

Another question: when Lou Donaldson's Man With A Horn came out, someone pointed out that 'The Hipty Hop' was the same as another tune. Does anyone remember which?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

[Soul Stream]

So I guess Belden was confused. I'll assume that's the case, unless someone else comes in with an explanation. I agree it's hardly an intricate composition.

Another question: when Lou Donaldson's Man With A Horn came out, someone pointed out that 'The Hipty Hop' was the same as another tune. Does anyone remember which?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

Hey Bertrand, it's the same song as "The Thang" on Lou's "Fried Buzzard".

Edited May 1, 2006 by Soul Stream

[bertrand]

Oh OK, I don't have that one.

In case you guys are wondering why I'm asking all this, I just finished putting together a playlist on my iPod of the complete Grant Green/John Patton collaboration. 94 tunes in all!

I've been digging it this morning. It's amazing how you discover these hidden gems that you missed the first time around. One example is Don Wilkerson's 'Movin' Out' from Shoutin'! This is a great little composition, in a somewhat whimsical vein. It fits perfectly with this screenplay I've been mentally writing, so much that I'm thinking the whole soundtrack should be Green/Patton. I wish I had connections in the movie biz

Next time I see Wayne Shorter (probably in September at the Monk competition), I am tempted to chastise him for his off-hand dismissal of Grant Green in Michelle Mercer's book ('grits and gravy' or something like that - I'll look it up at home). I'm sure he's not listened to that much. I'm tempted to buy him a copy of Got A Good Thing Goin' to set him straight. Someone please talk me out of this before I make a fool of myself!

Bertrand.

[Soul Stream]

Next time I see Wayne Shorter (probably in September at the Monk competition), I am tempted to chastise him for his off-hand dismissal of Grant Green in Michelle Mercer's book ('grits and gravy' or something like that - I'll look it up at home). I'm sure he's not listened to that much. I'm tempted to buy him a copy of Got A Good Thing Goin' to set him straight. Someone please talk me out of this before I make a fool of myself!

Bertrand.

I haven't seen that book or heard his comment. I'd be interested in it if you have the quote.

I'm sure there are many musicians who don't think much of Grant, or for that matter, someone like George Benson either. I wouldn't be surprised if Wayne was one of them. Takes all kinds, doesn't make me enjoy Wayne any less, OR Grant.

I also remember Wayne saying something in his book to the effect that some jazz patrons just wanted to you play earthy-type stuff "Yeah, I got to have me some blues, man" was his comment....I think Wayne doesn't really dig a lot of what he was forced to play in bars on the way up perhaps and sees Grant as maybe a product of that.

Patton even said that when he and Grant split, part of the reason was that John wanted to go off into more of a Trane-type playing on the bandstand and Grant said that they had to stick to the blues, ect. so the bar owners would have them back.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oh OK, I don't have that one.

In case you guys are wondering why I'm asking all this, I just finished putting together a playlist on my iPod of the complete Grant Green/John Patton collaboration. 94 tunes in all!

I've been digging it this morning. It's amazing how you discover these hidden gems that you missed the first time around. One example is Don Wilkerson's 'Movin' Out' from Shoutin'! This is a great little composition, in a somewhat whimsical vein. It fits perfectly with this screenplay I've been mentally writing, so much that I'm thinking the whole soundtrack should be Green/Patton. I wish I had connections in the movie biz

Next time I see Wayne Shorter (probably in September at the Monk competition), I am tempted to chastise him for his off-hand dismissal of Grant Green in Michelle Mercer's book ('grits and gravy' or something like that - I'll look it up at home). I'm sure he's not listened to that much. I'm tempted to buy him a copy of Got A Good Thing Goin' to set him straight. Someone please talk me out of this before I make a fool of myself!

Bertrand.

"Hipty hop" was also in Lou's album "Musty Rusty".

By the way, I hope that your Patton/Green compilation doesn't exclude Art Blakey's album "Hold on, I'm coming", in which John Patton appears as Malcolm Bass.

MG

[Daniel A]

I also remember Wayne saying something in his book to the effect that some jazz patrons just wanted to you play earthy-type stuff "Yeah, I got to have me some blues, man" was his comment....I think Wayne doesn't really dig a lot of what he was forced to play in bars on the way up perhaps and sees Grant as maybe a product of that.

Which book are you referring to? Not the bio mentioned by Bertand I take it.

BTW, still during his later Blue Note years, it would appear that sometimes others made - as it turned out, unwise - desicions about which tunes Wayne would play. Hearing him solo on Lennon-McCartney's "Yesterday" (from Lee Morgan's "Delightfulee") always brings out a sad smile...

[bertrand]

Dang - forgot about the Malcolm Bass thing. Are we ABSOLUTELY sure it's him?

Don't plan to buy this one - everyone says it sucks. But then my playlist is incomplete; what's an obsessive-compulsive completist to do?

I'm surprised no one asked about how I chose to handle Iron City!

Bertrand.

Edited May 1, 2006 by bertrand

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Dang - forgot about the Malcolm Bass thing. Are we ABSOLUTELY sure it's him?

Don't plan to buy this one - everyone says it sucks. But then my playlist is incomplete; what's an obsessive-compulsive completist to do?

I'm surprised no one asked about how I chose to handle Iron City!

Bertrand.

I don't think it sucks. True, the material is mostly dunggggg! True, the tracks are too short for real digging in solos. But an old swing musician once told me, "if you can't say something in four bars, you can't say anything in 17 choruses". And Grant, John (I'm sure it IS him, but don't positively KNOW) and Frank Mitchell do say something in their short solos. Particularly Frank who, on "Walkin' my cat named dog" (I think), produces a solo that any of the big honking saxmen would be proud of; that solo is worth the entrance fee.

MG

[Soul Stream]

I've never heard this album, or the notion that Patton's on it. I'll have to get it and listen.

[bertrand]

I just spent 10 minutes flipping through Footprints because Grant Green is not listed in the index. I know there's a quote. I'll try again later.

Shoddy workmanship.

Bertrand.

Edited May 4, 2006 by bertrand

[bertrand]

The discography at georgebraith.com gets the personnel mixed-up between Braith's two Prestige records, Laughing Soul and Musart. My understanding is neither Patton nor Green are on Musart, correct?

Bertrand.

[Soul Stream]

The discography at georgebraith.com gets the personnel mixed-up between Braith's two Prestige records, Laughing Soul and Musart. My understanding is neither Patton nor Green are on Musart, correct?

Bertrand.

That's right, neither are on Muzart.