Blue Train Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Mr. Nessa: Sorry to read that....while I admit to liking a good deal of his work....the man was pretty much an asshole in general back then from what I understand. The ratio of great musicians/composers who were/are assholes to non-assholes unfortunately leans heavily to the first. I just find it strange he wouldn't have known about Mr. Bowie & Mitchell or least listened to anything by the AACM before you showed up. He knew his Jazz. You would think whomever set it up would have at least gave him something to listen too. Edited June 27, 2012 by Blue Train Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 FWIW, this took place at Aaron Russo's Electric Theater (if that was the name at the time - it kept changing). IIRC the Mothers were alternating sets with Canned Heat. Quote
Blue Train Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Mr. Nessa: I could be wrong (and I don't have the book anywhere near where I am right now.)....but I swear I read in George Lewis' book....that he mentioned the AACM shared a bill with Zappa in Europe and had a great time. Like I said, I could be wrong. I haven't read it since it came out. Edited June 27, 2012 by Blue Train Quote
romualdo Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 Mr. Nessa: I could be wrong (and I don't have the book anywhere near where I am right now.)....but I swear I read in George Lewis' book....that he mentioned the AACM shared a bill with Zappa in Europe and had a great time. Like I said, I could be wrong. I haven't read it since it came out. was given a copy of this book recently (A Power Stronger Than Itself) - havn't had a chance to read it yet but there is no mention of Zappa or Mothers in the Index (doesn't mean it's not in the text though) Quote
Д.Д. Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 Mr. Nessa: I could be wrong (and I don't have the book anywhere near where I am right now.)....but I swear I read in George Lewis' book....that he mentioned the AACM shared a bill with Zappa in Europe and had a great time. Like I said, I could be wrong. I haven't read it since it came out. Could have been the Actuel Festival in October 1969 in Amougies: http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Actuel_Festival Quote
Blue Train Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 Found it. No way of knowing what Zappa actually thought of them, or if he was even around at the time from this. http://books.google.com/books?id=fUbCMeCrxa0C&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=%22Frank+Zappa%22+%22AACM%22&source=bl&ots=GhL8Y7Vyo9&sig=ehddSiVKMU6XGNnlz5TeTiV4F28&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KozrT6GkBIiYrAHJvLTVBQ&ved=0CIUEEOgBMAA#v=onepage&q=%22Frank%20Zappa%22%20%22AACM%22&f=false Quote
romualdo Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 Found it. No way of knowing what Zappa actually thought of them, or if he was even around at the time from this. http://books.google.com/books?id=fUbCMeCrxa0C&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=%22Frank+Zappa%22+%22AACM%22&source=bl&ots=GhL8Y7Vyo9&sig=ehddSiVKMU6XGNnlz5TeTiV4F28&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KozrT6GkBIiYrAHJvLTVBQ&ved=0CIUEEOgBMAA#v=onepage&q=%22Frank%20Zappa%22%20%22AACM%22&f=false Thanks - now noted in the book's index! Quote
robertoart Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Mr. Nessa: Sorry to read that....while I admit to liking a good deal of his work....the man was pretty much an asshole in general back then from what I understand. The ratio of great musicians/composers who were/are assholes to non-assholes unfortunately leans heavily to the first. I just find it strange he wouldn't have known about Mr. Bowie & Mitchell or least listened to anything by the AACM before you showed up. He knew his Jazz. You would think whomever set it up would have at least gave him something to listen too. Zappa was into Johnny Guitar Watson and the music concrete thing as far as I know. I doubt he would have had much awareness at all of radical Black Music as early as then. If ever. And he continued to remain on the 'fusion' side of things when it came to all things improvised. Ian Underwood's quirky avant garde malapropisms not withstanding. Sounds like the meeting may have been a desire from the publicist to bring her two worlds together and score some brownie points. Edited June 28, 2012 by freelancer Quote
Д.Д. Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"? My favorite is Burnt Weeny Sandwich which for some reason isn't listed in the first dozen. it's there: http://www.amazon.com/Burnt-Weeny-Sandwich-Frank-Zappa/dp/B008BDZOZ4/ref=pd_sim_m_3 , one of my favorite FZ albums too. However, the '95 edition sounds just fine to me. Quote
Quincy Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"? My favorite is Burnt Weeny Sandwich which for some reason isn't listed in the first dozen. it's there: http://www.amazon.com/Burnt-Weeny-Sandwich-Frank-Zappa/dp/B008BDZOZ4/ref=pd_sim_m_3 , one of my favorite FZ albums too. However, the '95 edition sounds just fine to me. Ah thanks, I was basing my reply on a thread a few weeks ago on a another board about the release list. That's good to see! I agree the '95 sounds fine so I don't see getting it again. Well, unless there are reports that it sounds like fairy dust sprinkled about the ears or some fabulous unimaginable glorious improvement as I do so love the album. Quote
GregK Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 Hmmm.... In late 1967 or early 1968 when the Mothers were first breaking on the scene, someone in the Zappa management team, working for Tom Wilson suggested I take Lester Bowie and Roscoe Mitchell to meet Frank when they came to town for a gig. It took a bit of convincing to get them to drive to the North side for this meeting. Frank came out from the dressing room and dismissed me as a white guy exploiting black artists and dismissed Lester and Roscoe because they were my n...ers. I have never been able to take him seriously or listen to his music. He was an ASSHOLE of the first order. What were Lester's and Roscoe's reactions? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 Hmmm.... In late 1967 or early 1968 when the Mothers were first breaking on the scene, someone in the Zappa management team, working for Tom Wilson suggested I take Lester Bowie and Roscoe Mitchell to meet Frank when they came to town for a gig. It took a bit of convincing to get them to drive to the North side for this meeting. Frank came out from the dressing room and dismissed me as a white guy exploiting black artists and dismissed Lester and Roscoe because they were my n...ers. I have never been able to take him seriously or listen to his music. He was an ASSHOLE of the first order. What were Lester's and Roscoe's reactions? We all looked at each other and went away. Not an unusual reaction in the '60s. Quote
jlhoots Posted June 29, 2012 Report Posted June 29, 2012 Weasels Ripped My Flesh. Still may have been (probably was ) an idiot. Quote
mjzee Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 FYI, I see the next batch of Zappa releases has been added to Amazon, with a release date of August 28. Strangely, the label listed is "Xenon", but the descriptions have the "official release" #. This batch seems to go through One Size Fits All. Quote
thedwork Posted July 20, 2012 Report Posted July 20, 2012 Hmmm.... In late 1967 or early 1968 when the Mothers were first breaking on the scene, someone in the Zappa management team, working for Tom Wilson suggested I take Lester Bowie and Roscoe Mitchell to meet Frank when they came to town for a gig. It took a bit of convincing to get them to drive to the North side for this meeting. Frank came out from the dressing room and dismissed me as a white guy exploiting black artists and dismissed Lester and Roscoe because they were my n...ers. I have never been able to take him seriously or listen to his music. He was an ASSHOLE of the first order. wow. that's quite an anecdote. do you remember what he actually said, as in a quote? could you paraphrase it? i'd be interested. Quote
Д.Д. Posted August 7, 2012 Report Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) First reviews of the new remasters are glowing, so I placed an order for "Hot Rats" at amazon.it, and noticed it is at #51 of the amazon.it top CD sellers - in between Police's "Regatta..." and Joe Henderson's "Mode for Joe" . I assume amazon.it sells CDs in low volumes, so a few odd orders can skew the 'Top' list, but it's amusing nonetheless. Edited August 7, 2012 by Д.Д. Quote
7/4 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Posted August 8, 2012 I bought the Uncle Meat remaster, it sounds great, but I still haven't done an A/B listening test yet. Quote
Quincy Posted August 8, 2012 Report Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) From what I've read the ones to get are those from the original analog tape: Absolutely Free - No more Ryko digital reverb. Hot Rats - Lacks extended versions of Ryko (along w/ the reverb). Burnt Weeny Sandwich - I never had a problem w/ the Ryko but many are saying it's a big improvement. If you first heard it on Ryko you might not be as gaga about the lack of reverb. I'll have to get it since it's BWS. Chunkga's Revenge - Sounds better than anything, even the original LP. Weasel's Rip My Flesh - Again, original mix w/out digital reverb. Just Another Band From LA - More good reports as above. Fillmore East - Better sound and both parts of Willie The Pimp are on it though with fades. ----- Same as the Rykos - Freak Out, We're Only In It For The Money, Lumpy Gravy, Uncle Meat, Ruben & The Jets. If there's any difference between the Rykos it's very small. I believe the waveforms say they're the same. The next batch is supposed to be similar. Some will be remasters, some will be the same old Rykos in new clothing. Edited August 8, 2012 by Quincy Quote
Head Man Posted August 8, 2012 Report Posted August 8, 2012 The sound of Hot Rats is fantastic compared to my existing CD copy. It was like hearing it for the first time again. Pity I don't have my original vinyl to compare it against. Quote
Д.Д. Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) The sound of Hot Rats is fantastic compared to my existing CD copy. It was like hearing it for the first time again. Pity I don't have my original vinyl to compare it against. Got Hot Rats today, and it indeed sounds good - better than the Ryko edition. However, I miss the 1987 mix - better guitar solo edits on Willie, additional instruments on a few tracks (Little Umbrellas really sounds 'empty'), and the long Ian Underwood alto sax solo. Ideally, I would have the 1987 mix mastered properly . Edited August 10, 2012 by Д.Д. Quote
ATR Posted August 10, 2012 Report Posted August 10, 2012 The sound of Hot Rats is fantastic compared to my existing CD copy. It was like hearing it for the first time again. Pity I don't have my original vinyl to compare it against. Got Hot Rats today, and it indeed sounds good - better than the Ryko edition. However, I miss the 1987 mix - better guitar solo edits on Willie, additional instruments on a few tracks (Little Umbrellas really sounds 'empty'), and the long Ian Underwood alto sax solo. Ideally, I would have the 1987 mix mastered properly . I would split the difference. Gumbo Variations sounds better to me without the countdown, bass/drum intro, and long sax solo (Although I'm fascinated by the seamlessness of the editing. It almost sounds as if those have to be different takes) but keep the other '87 edits and balance of the instruments. Lose the digital reverb. That was probably added to the mix, not in the mastering. I like having both the '87 and current CD editions to compare. Quote
Д.Д. Posted August 11, 2012 Report Posted August 11, 2012 I would split the difference. Gumbo Variations sounds better to me without the countdown, bass/drum intro, and long sax solo (Although I'm fascinated by the seamlessness of the editing. It almost sounds as if those have to be different takes) but keep the other '87 edits and balance of the instruments. Lose the digital reverb. That was probably added to the mix, not in the mastering. I like having both the '87 and current CD editions to compare. Particularly given that these were scissor and adhesive tape edits. In general, FZ was great with editing and you realize it in particular when you hear the source live material and what Zappa made out of it on released records. For example, the guitar tour de force from Sheik Yerbouti, Rat Tomago (4'43'') - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuDLlgRuI6Y is an edited version of a Torture Never Stops solo from the '78 performance in Berlin (6'39'') - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6fKl-huexE . When you compare them you realize how masterfully the edits were done and how much better the edited version sounds. Quote
robertoart Posted August 11, 2012 Report Posted August 11, 2012 First reviews of the new remasters are glowing, so I placed an order for "Hot Rats" at amazon.it, and noticed it is at #51 of the amazon.it top CD sellers - in between Police's "Regatta..." and Joe Henderson's "Mode for Joe" . I assume amazon.it sells CDs in low volumes, so a few odd orders can skew the 'Top' list, but it's amusing nonetheless. Must be payola. Quote
StarThrower Posted August 12, 2012 Report Posted August 12, 2012 Did they fix that horrible sounding Transylvania Boogie on Chunga's Revenge? The Ryko version sounds like the band recorded in a locker room. Quote
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