*** Frank Zappa ***

[StarThrower]

I bought the Uncle Meat remaster, it sounds great, but I still haven't done an A/B listening test yet.

According to this link, it's the same as the Ryko version.

http://www.gandsmusic.com/ZappaCD1.htm

[7/4]

I bought the Uncle Meat remaster, it sounds great, but I still haven't done an A/B listening test yet.

According to this link, it's the same as the Ryko version.

http://www.gandsmusic.com/ZappaCD1.htm

So I found out. I'll probably give it away to a friend.

[StarThrower]

That is a nice gift for a friend. Uncle Meat being an amazing album! The added movie dialog notwithstanding.

[Д.Д.]

These have been confirmed to be new remasters:

Absolutely Free

Burnt Weeny Sandwich

Weasels Ripped My Flesh

Chunga's Revenge

Fillmore East, June 1971

Just Another Band From L.A.

Waka/Jawaka

The Grand Wazoo

Over-nite Sensation

Apostrophe(‘)

One Size Fits All

Bongo Fury

Zoot Allures

Studio Tan

Sleep Dirt

Sheik Yerbouti

Joe's Garage Acts 1, 2 & 3

Tinseltown Rebellion

Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar

You Are What You Is

Them or Us

The rest are straight Ryko reissues.

[StarThrower]

Remastering is not the issue with many of these titles, it's the mixes. Hot Rats is not a "straight" Ryko reissue, the new one is the original vinyl version.

[AllenLowe]

just remember, 7/4, when you do the A/B listening test, to compare the same recordings - remember last time when you tried to say that Hot Rats didn't sound as good as Last Train to Clarksville.

[Head Man]

just remember, 7/4, when you do the A/B listening test, to compare the same recordings - remember last time when you tried to say that Hot Rats didn't sound as good as Last Train to Clarksville.

Well....it doesn't.

[Д.Д.]

Remastering is not the issue with many of these titles, it's the mixes.

Not really. Adding digital reverb and messing with EQ (which is what was done to earlier Rykos) does not constitute a remix. Real remixes were a few - Hot Rats, Sleep Dirt, etc. Good summary has been already prepared here: http://lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html

[StarThrower]

Yeah, I realize that. I don't want remixes, I want the original Sleep Dirt. Anyway, good to know they improved Chunga's Revenge, and Burnt Weeny Sandwich too.

[jlhoots]

FWIW, I saw / heard a group on the Santa Fe plaza last night with 2 sons of Jimmy Carl Black playing guitar & drums. They were pretty good.

[Big Wheel]

Virtually all of the Zappa catalog is now available for streaming on Rdio/Spotify. Not sure if they are the new remasters. I've been going through in chronological order and listening to the ones I don't have...so far I'm almost done with Shut Up N' Play Yer Guitar.

Much better than I expected/remembered: Overnite Sensation (which I liked the first time I heard bits of it, just not as much)

Better than I expected: Apostrophe (which I thought was blah at best on a first hearing awhile back)

About as good as I expected: Freak Out, Fillmore East, Waka Jawaka, Bongo Fury (not meaning to damn them with faint praise, they're all very good to great), Sheik Yerbouti, Joe's Garage, Tinsel Town Rebellion

Disappointments: Studio Tan and Sleep Dirt - I know a lot of people here love these records....so far I thought Greggery Peccary was sort of an inferior version of Billy the Mountain and the records lacked any coherent focus, which is unsurprising because they weren't really supposed to be standalone albums anyway.

Skipped over for now: Orchestral Favorites

Soldiering through: Shut Up N' Play Yer Guitar - fine solos, just very monotonous

[Quincy]

Virtually all of the Zappa catalog is now available for streaming on Rdio/Spotify. Not sure if they are the new remasters.

The 2012 date next to the titles suggests they are. I'm checking to see how the times matched up on the couple where I kept the Ryko and bought again. And the 1 second time difference on "Peaches" also suggests Spotify is using the remasters. IIRC the stated time for "Gumbo" on LPs & CDs is off by about 4 minutes compared to actual playing time.

Shut Up N' Play Yer Guitar works better if you think of it in its vinyl form and as a collection of 78s. In other words, just nibble, don't gorge.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Quincy

[mjzee]

The parts of SUNPYG that work best are the more composed works, that function best as stand-alone tunes: five-five-FIVE, Treacherous Cretins, Canarsie, and Ship Ahoy (perhaps my favorite). The rest are the guitar solo portions of other performances or unstructured jams that seem aimless. If you're soldiering through SUNPYG, wait till you encounter "Guitar." I don't envy you there.

[Big Wheel]

Yeah, I've heard a track or two off Guitar before. Oy.

Saw recently a discussion of how Dweezil asked FZ which of his compositions he thought were his "signature" tunes. The three he picked were Zoot Allures, Watermelon in Easter Hay, and Black Napkins. Which to me is fairly revealing (especially the latter two) - all are sort of searching and a bit sad/wistful. At his core, under all the goofing, Zappa seems to have identified most with a deep, heartfelt loneliness.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Big Wheel

[Big Wheel]

Just finished up Make a Jazz Noise Here. Not counting the archival tapes and so forth like You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore 1-6, the only original records I have left are:

The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life

The Yellow Shark

The last 30 or so tracks of Guitar

[mjzee]

I'll be curious to hear your impressions, especially about the overall arc of his career. I formed my opinions long ago, and it'll be interesting to hear from someone listening with fresh ears.

[StarThrower]

The parts of SUNPYG that work best are the more composed works, that function best as stand-alone tunes: five-five-FIVE, Treacherous Cretins, Canarsie, and Ship Ahoy (perhaps my favorite). The rest are the guitar solo portions of other performances or unstructured jams that seem aimless. If you're soldiering through SUNPYG, wait till you encounter "Guitar." I don't envy you there.

I've seen this "aimless" description applied to some of these solos by others, and I don't agree in the slightest. They are not unstructured jams. If you listen to the three title tracks, you can hear that they are highly melodic and imaginative variations performed in the tune Inca Roads. Pink Napkins is another brilliant performance, and obviously a different "Black Napkins" solo.

I don't know how much time you've spent with the music, but the more you listen, the more this will become apparent to your ears. I encourage Big Wheel not to brush off Studio Tan; Sleep Dirt; and Orchestral Favorites. These albums contain loads of great music.

Edited March 13, 2013 by starthrower

[StarThrower]

Yeah, I've heard a track or two off Guitar before. Oy.

Saw recently a discussion of how Dweezil asked FZ which of his compositions he thought were his "signature" tunes. The three he picked were Zoot Allures, Watermelon in Easter Hay, and Black Napkins. Which to me is fairly revealing (especially the latter two) - all are sort of searching and a bit sad/wistful. At his core, under all the goofing, Zappa seems to have identified most with a deep, heartfelt loneliness.

"Loneliness is the next best thing to solitude." -Frank Zappa

[Big Wheel]

The jams themselves on Shut Up are not unstructured, the problem is the lack of any real context which takes away any structure from the record as a whole. Like the Bird Benedetti box I guess I'd rather have them than have nothing at all, but simply hearing these clipped chunks of Inca Roads doesn't really do it for me. Was the rest of the tune really not interesting enough to be issued?

I'm done with the last 3 studio records, now working my way through You Can't Do That on Stage vol. 2. In a bit I'll post my impressions of the whole sweep.

[StarThrower]

The whole point of the Shut Up records was to feature FZ's guitar improvisations. And IMO, they stand up great on their own. You seem to be going through a bunch of Zappa recordings at a swift pace. Like I asked before, how much time have you spent listening to each piece of music?

As for Inca Roads, several different complete versions of the composition have been released. The guitar solo from Inca Roads on Vol. 2 is the one that was used in the studio version on the One Size Fits All album. It was edited for the album, but the full solo can be heard on the Helsinki concert.

To my ears, the Shut Up records were very carefully sequenced and edited, and they don't sound unstructured at all. Of course, it helps if you are already familiar with FZ's music when you come around to this set. And in the end, these records aren't going to have a very broad appeal. As FZ used to say, they are for guitar fetishists. But if you can forget about the guitar and focus on the musical content, there's plenty of inventive stuff here to enjoy.

[GregK]

The whole point of the Shut Up records was to feature FZ's guitar improvisations. And IMO, they stand up great on their own. You seem to be going through a bunch of Zappa recordings at a swift pace. Like I asked before, how much time have you spent listening to each piece of music?

As for Inca Roads, several different complete versions of the composition have been released. The guitar solo from Inca Roads on Vol. 2 is the one that was used in the studio version on the One Size Fits All album. It was edited for the album, but the full solo can be heard on the Helsinki concert.

To my ears, the Shut Up records were very carefully sequenced and edited, and they don't sound unstructured at all. Of course, it helps if you are already familiar with FZ's music when you come around to this set. And in the end, these records aren't going to have a very broad appeal. As FZ used to say, they are for guitar fetishists. But if you can forget about the guitar and focus on the musical content, there's plenty of inventive stuff here to enjoy.

You're exactly right. Shut Up... easily stands alone as a great record on its own, never mind some of the recycled material. Taken out of their original context, tunes like Inca Roads spun off a different tune altogether. And the guitar playing is obviously the highlight anyway. Project/Object!

[Big Wheel]

Of course, it helps if you are already familiar with FZ's music when you come around to this set. And in the end, these records aren't going to have a very broad appeal.

Who are you trying to convince that this is the optimal way of presenting this music: me, or yourself?

FYI, I've had 2/3 of the records up to Zappa in New York for several years. It's everything after that point that I am only familiar with in bits and pieces.

[StarThrower]

I don't need any convincing. I've been listening to Shut Up for almost 30 years. As Zappa fans know, the solo sections of the tunes are compositions within themselves. This is why these solos are so remarkable. It's spontaneous composition that is melodic, inventive, and has continuity.

[Big Wheel]

That's nice. After all, it's not like Zappa had this keyboard player in the band who was an equally capable improviser or anything. Good thing he made sure to excise that hack's shitty solos so those who are more metal Zappa than me don't have to put up with them!

[StarThrower]

You don't know what you're talking about. Zappa had some of the finest keyboard players in modern music.

George Duke, Tommy Mars, Don Preston, Peter Wolf, Allan Zavod, etc...