Guy Berger Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I picked up this album during the Tower blowout. I like Bobo's playing quite a bit but have not made up my mind about it yet. I don't think it's as good as War Orphans, and in general I am somewhat ambivalent about this very-low-key, slow-tempo ECM piano trio style. (Bill Evans fans might like it more than I do.) Hopefully my assessment will improve after a few more listens. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I've been curious about this one. The idea of Stenson playing with Motian sounds facinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I've been curious about this one. The idea of Stenson playing with Motian sounds facinating. I think Motian is underutilized on this disc. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I've been curious about this one. The idea of Stenson playing with Motian sounds facinating. I think Motian is underutilized on this disc. Guy That's unfortunate, considering that he ususally contributes more to the music than most living drummers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Goodbye is good, but War Orphans is much better (IMO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I got this album for Christmas and love it already; it's on at least once a day. However, I think the fact that it's sequenced in a rather odd fashion means that it does appear harder to get 'into'. The melodic pieces are grouped together at the beginning of the album with some shorter, more disparate tracks at the end. I wouldn't personally say that Motian is underused though. Given the pace of the disc, he's more inclined to add colour sparingly rather than, for example, on Marilyn Crispells 'Amaryliss' or the disc I just picked up from Bol -- Change Of Heart, where he's definitely more 'urgent' and propulsive. Again, I love it. It has all the elements and dynamics of my favourite piano trio albums; bits of Mehldau, bits of Evans' classic trios, other ECMs like Serenity, War Orphans, The Ground etc. And as for Jormin. Is it just me or does he get a lower, deeper note than anyone else? Let it grow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I have chills thinking about this combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I have chills thinking about this combination. Wait till you hear them play "Send In The Clowns." It's like watching someone try to wash a pile of dog poop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest youmustbe Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 This trio was supposed to play Dizzy's last year, but after Paul played the club with Lovano, the club barred Paul from ever playing there again...club 'officials' said Paul does not play drums in what they consider a 'jazz' style. Bobo's gig was cancelled and the group went into Birdland, if I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 This trio was supposed to play Dizzy's last year, but after Paul played the club with Lovano, the club barred Paul from ever playing there again...club 'officials' said Paul does not play drums in what they consider a 'jazz' style. Yikes -- it's the Jazz Police! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Police my ass! It's the fucking Jazz Fascisnazis. Paul Motian being banned for life from a "high profile" gig for not playing in a "jazz style"? Paul Motian? Fuck peace and love - kill 'em all, then get back to peace and love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 What Jim said... May I ask who has the "right" to define whether something is a "jazz style" or not? Fucking idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 This trio was supposed to play Dizzy's last year, but after Paul played the club with Lovano, the club barred Paul from ever playing there again...club 'officials' said Paul does not play drums in what they consider a 'jazz' style. Bobo's gig was cancelled and the group went into Birdland, if I remember. This is one of the funniest+saddest (at the same time) things I've read on this board. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 the disc I just picked up from Bol -- Change Of Heart, where he's definitely more 'urgent' and propulsive. What do you think of this album? I decided not to pick it up in the Tower megasale -- there were a ton of copies. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fkimbrough Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I heard 'em at Birdland, and they sounded great - it was Dizzy's loss........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest youmustbe Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Bobo was going to make an album with Bendik Hofseth, with Anders and I forget drummer, and I think maybe Mike Mainieri, for another label, but Manfred Eicher stopped it, since Bobo is on ECM. I like Bobo, but I don't listen to ECM records anymore. Manfred has this new idea that the sound should be mixed like it's hanging in space or something. To me, and Manfred I admire for what he has done, a fucking genius, the ECM sound is passe. But it sells in Europe, or did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 the disc I just picked up from Bol -- Change Of Heart, where he's definitely more 'urgent' and propulsive. What do you think of this album? I decided not to pick it up in the Tower megasale -- there were a ton of copies. Guy Hmmmm!!!! Initially I passed on the album and a live gig which was very local but for unusual reasons.... A guy I know had played with Martin Speake not long before this was released and had commented on, ahem, his ego. I know it's common for high achievers to have quite high opinions of themselves but what he had told me sounded rude and obnoxious. (mind you, I'm still a big Getz fan, so if the stories are true then I'm guilty of double standards....) Anyway the band, as featured on the disc, played a series of rural gigs, one of which was only 10 miles down the road in a small village -- say 300-400 people --- at the village hall. I only found out about it that morning but still could've made it. The above put me off a bit. Anyhow, I like the album from what I've heard. It only came earlier this week so I can't really say anything critical about it yet. Later on, I'll post and try to shed some light on what's going on. Like I said though, Motian seems more direct and urgent than on the Stenson disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Manfred has this new idea that the sound should be mixed like it's hanging in space or something. This is a new idea of Eicher's? Haven't most, or a good many, ECM records been mixed this way from the beginning? On the other hand, maybe there was a point when it began to get even weirder than it was initially. I recall the first time I listened to Kenny Wheeler's "Angel Song" -- rec. almost exactly ten years ago, in Feb. 1996 -- and wondering whether the players were hanging from guy wires in the studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Manfred has this new idea that the sound should be mixed like it's hanging in space or something. This is a new idea of Eicher's? Haven't most, or a good many, ECM records been mixed this way from the beginning? On the other hand, maybe there was a point when it began to get even weirder than it was initially. I recall the first time I listened to Kenny Wheeler's "Angel Song" -- rec. almost exactly ten years ago, in Feb. 1996 -- and wondering whether the players were hanging from guy wires in the studio. Apart from the obvious Health & Safety issues, is there anything wrong with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I have chills thinking about this combination. Wait till you hear them play "Send In The Clowns." It's like watching someone try to wash a pile of dog poop. I'm not sure if this phrase equates to the oft used, 'trying to polish a turd', but, yes....if the song is a bit cheesy this band's attempts at giving it credibility have to be admired. Or you think not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I have chills thinking about this combination. Wait till you hear them play "Send In The Clowns." It's like watching someone try to wash a pile of dog poop. I'm not sure if this phrase equates to the oft used, 'trying to polish a turd', but, yes....if the song is a bit cheesy this band's attempts at giving it credibility have to be admired. Or you think not? I think not, because the hook progression in the song is so annoying/nagging that any "tasteful" attempt to play "Send In The Clowns" must attempt to significantly modify that phrase or skate away from it altogether, but when you do that, either there's nothing left or you're not even playing the song. I have a copy of "Goodbye" (don't ask why), and, as I recall, the interpretation there is close to both of those alternatives, but that damn phrase finally turns out to be unavoidable. I'd say that the only way to handle it is the way Albert Ayler might have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Or Joe Venuti? There's a version on the late album with Dave McKenna.... though I'll have to re-spin it to see how well it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the mommy Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 everyone blames eicher but also...i mean aren't most of the musicians just getting older and more boring? doesn't this happen to most people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Maybe, but we don't have recording contracts ..... But I wouldn't call the disc boring--I haven't got it at the moment (a bassist friend borrowed it) but I remember it as being quite good, even "Send in the Clowns" (awful tune that it is). -- Talking about Motian, I found him a lot better on here than on the Rava Tati album, which was such tedious Miles Davis pastiche I couldn't get to the end of it. Very disappointing, given my esteem for Rava (his earlier ECM discs like the one with Rudd are great). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Wait till you hear them play "Send In The Clowns." It's like watching someone try to wash a pile of dog poop. I'm not sure if this phrase equates to the oft used, 'trying to polish a turd', but, yes....if the song is a bit cheesy this band's attempts at giving it credibility have to be admired. Or you think not? I think not, because the hook progression in the song is so annoying/nagging that any "tasteful" attempt to play "Send In The Clowns" must attempt to significantly modify that phrase or skate away from it altogether, but when you do that, either there's nothing left or you're not even playing the song. I have a copy of "Goodbye" (don't ask why), and, as I recall, the interpretation there is close to both of those alternatives, but that damn phrase finally turns out to be unavoidable. I'd say that the only way to handle it is the way Albert Ayler might have. I guess I am lucky not to be familiar with the original song. I think their interpretation is really nice. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.