Jim Alfredson Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I've gone to jazz clubs for quite a while and have seen some bad times before. But last week I worked at the bar for a gig where nobody showed up. Not one poor soul. And that on a Friday nite. Ouch! The weird thing is, the R&B band pulls good crowds and people like us, but we're not getting any gigs anymore. Last week we played a casino (3 hours away, one way) and this weekend we're at another casino (4 hours away, one way). Those are rough gigs... playing with a constant C major triad in the background, smoke everywhere, people walking around like zombies. And considering the drive, paying for food over three days, the bread isn't that good. I remember recently my dad, who made his living as a musician full-time up until about 1981 or so, asked me what I make with the R&B band. I told him my average take home is between $120 and $150 a night. He said, "Shit, I was making that in 1979!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) I'm actually am busier now I have been in a long while. Lately, I've been turning down a lot of work for the same reasons mentioned by others. I'm tired of being exploited. The money hasn't changed since 1986 (and before really). I play with a few older cats quite a bit. Not to mention names as to embarass any of them. But they've paid dues and had many high profile gigs.... But we're all playing a tip jar gig together every week!!! We always pull about 70-80 bucks each, but it upsets me that these well respected musicians can't get a guarantee from one of the best clubs in town. A shame. These club owners are spoiled, and whore musicians driving down prices don't help. Plus, I just think the demand isn't there anymore for anybody. Heck, when I was a kid...a popular rock band might sell out reunion arena in Dallas for 2 or 3 nights. Bands of that same popularity now might play at Stubbs here in Austin one night for 600 people. The best paying gigs are "background" music gigs for people eating. Flat out. Hands down. Rock, R&B, Funk gigs don't pay anymore. Oh yeah, and no New Years Eve gig this year. Which is strange since I'm connected to quite a few popular performers. But none have anything as of yet. Matter of fact, I don't know 1 musician with a NY eve gig this year! And I'm talking about musicians that are ALWAYS working. p.s.-In reference to Jim's comment....I'm hearing more and more about people playing casinos. My guitar player just played 2 casinos in Cali with Double Trouble (SRVs old band), and a singer I work with constantly flys to Minn. to play a casino there. Seems like these are the only places with money anymore. Edited December 16, 2004 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I remember recently my dad, who made his living as a musician full-time up until about 1981 or so, asked me what I make with the R&B band. I told him my average take home is between $120 and $150 a night. He said, "Shit, I was making that in 1979!" And if you look at the Consumer Price Index as a measure of inflation, that money gets you less than half (almost a third) of what your dad could buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) My "Weekend" asking price used to be about $100 in town and $150 out of town. It's tough to get that anymore, and I aways considered that around the usual bottem end of things. During the week 50 to 80 bucks is about the norm. But truth be told, the PATRONS aren't there like the used to be....it's hard to blame the club owner (although I will out of habit ). Live music is dead. P.S.-I've had to pay the babysitter more than I've made on the gig for a net loss. Edited December 16, 2004 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Drink prices are high - mainly because insurance costs have skyrocketed since the late 70s. Add to that the fact that many patrons are afraid to drink more than one or two drinks if driving is a factor. The days of barhopping in general are over. Too bad - it used to be nice to go to 3 or 4 joints in one night on an off night - and not go broke in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Damn, I think this is about the most depressing thread I've ever read on this site. I think it depends a little on whether the environment is urban, exurban or suburban, though; there's never a shortage of people out and drinking at places in (downtown) Philadelphia--places with live music or just bars. They're always packed--so I'm not willing to stick a fork in the barhopping scene just yet. As to the live music scene, well, I can't speak to that directly, because I don't play gigs. But I know it's tough to break into the scene just from trying to get some ears on Organissimo's CD here in town. I don't know whether bar owners are lazy, or swamped with people trying to get "heard," or what, but on my followups with places I've taken Jim's press kit, I just keep hearing "we haven't gotten to it yet," "we'll listen to it soon," "we get lots of submissions," etc. etc. etc. Aggravating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Well, here in Austin, the self-proclaimed "Live Music Capitol of The World"....the number of live music venues has been in steady decline for the last decade. Shot bars, Sports bars, and "hipster" bars (all sans live music) are the norm now. I haven't seen a new venue dedicated solely to live music open up here in the last few years to my knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 ... I don't know whether bar owners are lazy, or swamped with people trying to get "heard," or what, but on my followups with places I've taken Jim's press kit, I just keep hearing "we haven't gotten to it yet," "we'll listen to it soon," "we get lots of submissions," etc. etc. etc. Aggravating! This is what guys trying to book gigs face. They have to devote a LOT of time to land ...what....ONE gig at ONE place. If the cash register doesn't ring that night, no matter what the reason, snowstorm, rain, whatever... forget about another gig. I'm always a sideman - I never got involved in doing that - but the guys who hire me have to. They get burned out after a while - I don't blame them - and another band folds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 But I know it's tough to break into the scene just from trying to get some ears on Organissimo's CD here in town. I don't know whether bar owners are lazy, or swamped with people trying to get "heard," or what, but on my followups with places I've taken Jim's press kit, I just keep hearing "we haven't gotten to it yet," "we'll listen to it soon," "we get lots of submissions," etc. etc. etc. Aggravating! Thank you much for trying, bro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Thank you much for trying, bro! Jim, Joe, Randy, it's the LEAST I can do after you all put this community together. And don't worry--I'm not giving up, I'm just trying to walk that fine line between being a royal pain in the ass and persistent, getting these folks to realize there's something sweet going on with this trio from Michigan. I won't sleep until I know they've listened, dammit!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Yes, thanks Peter for your hard work. I really appreciate it. I'm hoping we're at the bottom of a cycle and that things will start to pick up. This summer was actually pretty good, but since August it's been absolutely horrible. It's all about getting people to listen to the disc. Seriously. That's the only reason we got that fantastic gig with the Clearwater Jazz Holiday in 2003... the guy just happened to pick up our package from the pile of 100's of packages and he just happened to open it and think the artwork was cool so he popped it in.... and (he told me this himself, before we even played) he heard 30 seconds of the disc and said to himself, "These guys are perfect." He had no idea we weren't on the national scene, he had no idea we'd never played a gig that big before... he just liked what he heard. Argh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 It's all about getting people to listen to the disc. Seriously. That's the only reason we got that fantastic gig with the Clearwater Jazz Holiday in 2003... the guy just happened to pick up our package from the pile of 100's of packages and he just happened to open it and think the artwork was cool so he popped it in.... and (he told me this himself, before we even played) he heard 30 seconds of the disc and said to himself, "These guys are perfect." He had no idea we weren't on the national scene, he had no idea we'd never played a gig that big before... he just liked what he heard. Argh!!! And I was there afterwards, and you know he was at least as happy then, too. Maybe there's hope to get an invite back in 2005, since it will be two years since the one you played? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 It's all about getting people to listen to the disc. Seriously. That's the only reason we got that fantastic gig with the Clearwater Jazz Holiday in 2003... the guy just happened to pick up our package from the pile of 100's of packages and he just happened to open it and think the artwork was cool so he popped it in.... and (he told me this himself, before we even played) he heard 30 seconds of the disc and said to himself, "These guys are perfect." He had no idea we weren't on the national scene, he had no idea we'd never played a gig that big before... he just liked what he heard. Argh!!! And I was there afterwards, and you know he was at least as happy then, too. Maybe there's hope to get an invite back in 2005, since it will be two years since the one you played? He's not booking the festival anymore, but it's still worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I can think of lots of bookers and agents who would be worth a shot. Or two. Or threee. Ot how many ever it takes to get a clean hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 There's only one thing worse than a booking agent....and that's a booking agent that used to be a musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 How about a booking agent that still is a musician and takes all the good gigs for his band? We have two of those in Lansing. They are worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 He's not booking the festival anymore, but it's still worth a shot. Definitely! Just remind him how well-received your set was, you should have a definite advantage over all the people who are just trying to catch their attention for the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 How about a booking agent that still is a musician and takes all the good gigs for his band? We have two of those in Lansing. They are worthless. Yes, it's either they take all the gigs themselves or give them to their past musician buddies. Or, they'll just resent any musician who passed them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 How about a booking agent that still is a musician and takes all the good gigs for his band? We have two of those in Lansing. They are worthless. Just two? We have an entire BAND that's formed their own agency and does exactly that. Plus, they sucker bands into signing "exclusive representation" contracts. Then they advertise them in promo materials and web sites. THEN, when a prospective client for these other groups call, they hear that the group they called about is already booked or otherwise unavbailable, and would they be interested in the group that owns the agency? Now, if it turns out that the client is not really deep-pocketed or otherwise unlucrative, the client recieves a call back in a few days that the group they originally asked about has suddenly come available, and AT A REDUCED PRICE! To make matters worse, each member of the core band/agency has satellite bands that all have the same book and go out under the same name. So on any given night, there are five bands working under the same name, playing the same book, with all the net going back into the core group's agency. That's just smart business (and hardly unprecedented), but the signing of other bands to exclusive representation contracts and then screwing them like that is plain ol' slimy, if not exactly unprecedented. There's at least four other musician/agencies in this town who play the "call for them/end up booking me" game, but none have gone so far as to play the exclusive representation game. Yet. A big reason why my commercial work is down is because I was working with bands that didn't hook up with these sharks. The strangulation of the work flow took its toll, and most of these bands gave up. I've been called a few times to work for these fuckers, and have always been booked elsewhere. One time, they offered me double what I was already making to cancel out of a gig at the very last minute. They were obviously (and I DO mean obviously...) trying to fuck with the "competition". This would have meant a $550 check, but I refused. just on principle. I don't back out of a previous commitment like that. Especially not on the day of the gig. Now, I've been "branded" as a wildcard of some sort, somebody who won't go along with the program and all that, and you know what that means - I'm now a sorry no-playing motherfucker who's unreliable and unprofessional. Yep, that's me! Guess that's why they offered me double to bust up that other band's gig... Oh well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryCurleyMoe Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 (edited) Hi all - I'm in the Champaign-Urbana, Illinois area and we have got a happening scene here...U of Illinois' jazz studies program has helped kick things up a bit - 3-4 nightclubs that host jazz AND jam sessions on a regular basis including my favorite, THE IRON POST in Urbana... JEFF HELGESEN, a local trumpet rage, plays frequently. This cat was with Ray Charles' band for a while, but prefers to be local and boy am I glad! Jeff TEARS IT UP - consistently - and I just love his playing! He could EASILY hold his own with Hargrove, Rotondi, Hagans, etc., but is content to be HERE! ...I sure am thankful! Jeff is super-cool too and it's a pleasure to rap to him.... I posted his web site below- Y'ALL WANNA CHECK IT OUT!!!! In addition to local listings for Champaign-Urbana clubs, Jeff's Web Site is one of THE BEST music web sites I've encountered! IF YOU'RE A TRUMPET PLAYER YOU'RE GONNA REALLY DIG the transcriptions of solos by Fagerquist, Hubbard, Conte, et al., plus all the articles and useful information... ENJOY! Jeff Helgesen's web page Edited December 21, 2004 by LarryCurleyMoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 I think I'll try & remember this thread next time I'm in two minds whether to go to a jazz gig or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 A few of the members here are musicians with a national or international profile. Now that we've heard from many of the local warriors, I'd be interested to hear how things are shaping up at that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randissimo Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 There's only one thing worse than a booking agent....and that's a booking agent that used to be a musician. Most of the booking agents I have encountered who claim to be musicians are typically weekend lightweights with very little talent but lots of bullshit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted December 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 (edited) There's only one thing worse than a booking agent....and that's a booking agent that used to be a musician. Most of the booking agents I have encountered who claim to be musicians are typically weekend lightweights with very little talent but lots of bullshit.. Ex-musician booking agents have this to contend with. Usually, they find out along the way..."Hey, I'm making 50 bucks 2 nights a week...why not book the bands and make 50 bucks 7 nights a week and I don't have to haul my crap around and play 3 or 4 sets a night." Which, to be honest, seems to make a hell of a lot of sense. However, then they realize...."Hey, as far as making money goes...this booking job sucks too...and now I don't even get to play!" THAT'S the problem. Then they get hostile to a degree with all the guys that still play and have toughed it out with music. Those bookers/musicians sold out and now they're grumpy. That's my take on it anyway.... Not that I know anything about the music business anyway... Edited December 22, 2004 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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