2007 Hot Stove League Thread

[BERIGAN]

Diamondbacks traded for Dan Haren, and traded away their closer for some reason!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3155417

[Patrick]

Interesting deal for Haren. One rumor had the Indians pursuing Haren. I thought this was just a weird idea to fill up the baseball rumor vacuum (at least in Cleveland), but supposedly there were talks. Tribe also rumored to be considering trading for Bedard. Supposedly the idea is to counter the stacked Tiger lineup with what would arguably be the best rotation in the league (Sabathia, Carmona, Haren/Bedard, Westbrook, Byrd). Ultimately, I think Mark Shapiro is just shopping for bargains after talks for Jason Bay and Scott Rolen ended without a deal.

[Dan Gould]

And everyone said Beane was waiting for Santana to be dealt, then Haren would go. I wonder if Minnesota is serious about keeping him, or else the report in the Minneapolis paper might be correct - its not that they want Ellsbury and Lester in the same deal, its Ellsbury and Buchholz they want together.

There ain't a damn chance in hell that Theo will make that move, and if they still think they should get Lowry or Masterson on top of that haul, F them. We'll compete for Santana on nothing other than money a year from now.

[Matthew]

And everyone said Beane was waiting for Santana to be dealt, then Haren would go. I wonder if Minnesota is serious about keeping him, or else the report in the Minneapolis paper might be correct - its not that they want Ellsbury and Lester in the same deal, its Ellsbury and Buchholz they want together.

There ain't a damn chance in hell that Theo will make that move, and if they still think they should get Lowry or Masterson on top of that haul, F them. We'll compete for Santana on nothing other than money a year from now.

Spoken like a true Yankee, oops, I mean Red Sox fan.

[Matthew]

Looks like Jim Edmonds is going to the Padres for a minor leaguer and ca$h. Too bad it isn't the Edmonds of even three years ago. Now, Edmonds is veering towards the JD Drew Zone.

[Aggie87]

I have no idea how the Astros are going to end up looking, but they've been pretty busy this offseason, at least. Except for Berkman, Lee, & Pence, basically the rest of their (non-pitching) starters are new. Their pitching still looks suspect to me, but they did pick up Jose Valverde as closer from the DBacks.

CF Michael Bourn

2B Kaz Matsui

SS Miguel Tejada

1B Lance Berkman

LF Carlos Lee

RF Hunter Pence

3B Ty Wigginton

C J.R. Towles

Edited December 15, 2007 by Aggie87

[ghost of miles]

I was already skeptical about the ultimate worth of the Mitchell report--reading that ESPN piece cements it. And I say this having little doubt that Clemens juiced, and probably Pettite as well. As for your question, Dan, while I don't think Mitchell was probably biased in favor of the Bosox, he really should have discontinued his association with them, just to remove ANY appearance of potential impropriety. In the end I think this investigation will only cloud matters more. Everybody came out of it looking a little worse--players, trainers, teams, and MLB in general.

[Dan Gould]

Looks like Jim Edmonds is going to the Padres for a minor leaguer and ca$h. Too bad it isn't the Edmonds of even three years ago. Now, Edmonds is veering towards the JD Drew Zone.

That's a ridiculous comment, though I've certainly come to expect it. Edmonds is so far past his prime he needs a pair of binoculars to get a glimpse.

[Matthew]

Looks like Jim Edmonds is going to the Padres for a minor leaguer and ca$h. Too bad it isn't the Edmonds of even three years ago. Now, Edmonds is veering towards the JD Drew Zone.

That's a ridiculous comment, though I've certainly come to expect it. Edmonds is so far past his prime he needs a pair of binoculars to get a glimpse.

I have to admit Dan, sometimes it's very hard not to give to at least nudge you from time to time -- it's harmless Bro.

[Dan Gould]

Looks like Jim Edmonds is going to the Padres for a minor leaguer and ca$h. Too bad it isn't the Edmonds of even three years ago. Now, Edmonds is veering towards the JD Drew Zone.

That's a ridiculous comment, though I've certainly come to expect it. Edmonds is so far past his prime he needs a pair of binoculars to get a glimpse.

I have to admit Dan, sometimes it's very hard not to give to at least nudge you from time to time -- it's harmless Bro.

Of course it is. As Deep would say, CLASP!

[Matthew]

Looks like Jim Edmonds is going to the Padres for a minor leaguer and ca$h. Too bad it isn't the Edmonds of even three years ago. Now, Edmonds is veering towards the JD Drew Zone.

That's a ridiculous comment, though I've certainly come to expect it. Edmonds is so far past his prime he needs a pair of binoculars to get a glimpse.

I have to admit Dan, sometimes it's very hard not to give to at least nudge you from time to time -- it's harmless Bro.

Of course it is. As Deep would say, CLASP!

[Quincy]

Looks like Jim Edmonds is going to the Padres for a minor leaguer and ca$h. Too bad it isn't the Edmonds of even three years ago. Now, Edmonds is veering towards the JD Drew Zone.

That's a ridiculous comment, though I've certainly come to expect it. Edmonds is so far past his prime he needs a pair of binoculars to get a glimpse.

I have to admit Dan, sometimes it's very hard not to give to at least nudge you from time to time -- it's harmless Bro.

Just a nudge...

[BERIGAN]

Just wanted to compare their stats from last year....

Jim Edmonds line from last year....117 365 39 92 15 2 12 53 0 .252

JD Drew.....................................140 466 84 126 30 4 11 64 4 .270

[BERIGAN]

Looks like Jim Edmonds is going to the Padres for a minor leaguer and ca$h. Too bad it isn't the Edmonds of even three years ago. Now, Edmonds is veering towards the JD Drew Zone.

That's a ridiculous comment, though I've certainly come to expect it. Edmonds is so far past his prime he needs a pair of binoculars to get a glimpse.

I have to admit Dan, sometimes it's very hard not to give to at least nudge you from time to time -- it's harmless Bro.

Just a nudge...

2 questions. Who are they, and are they still married???

[BERIGAN]

Al, the Rangers sound like an interesting team for next year. I know, who cares about interesting, you want a winning team! Hamilton should be a plus for sure...,.

http://www.newbergreport.com/article.asp

[Dan Gould]

Well, the Hall of Fame votes are in and while I am disappointed that Jim Rice won't be joining Goose Gossage in the Hall, I have to believe that 15 will be the charm, considering that he fell 16 votes short, and had a higher percentage in his penultimate year than Goose did in his.

I'm also glad to see the Hawk getting some support, despite his terrible OBP, he was a complete player for a long time, as well as reaching a couple of milestone numbers that traditionally get you in. Blyleven too ought to be in, and is overwhelmingly more qualified than Jack Morris.

Its a shame too that Tim Raines has started with only 24.3% in his first year. Sure, he had a low slugging percentage and that cocaine scandal, but his OBP, steals, steal percentage, and several other stats I can't think of at the moment, make him a no-doubt hall of famer. Too bad its going to take some time for him, too - probably another 8 or 9 years. It would be really screwy if his vote total actually goes down next year when Rickey Henderson is on the ballot, as if voters would be foolish enough to decide he is so "inferior" that he should get fewer votes while Rickey is on the ballot.

But that just reminds me of how much bullshit the voters put out, year in and year out. In my opinion, the following votes should be grounds for immediate dismissal from the electorate:

Anyone who votes for any of the new nominees, the ones who haven't any possible claim to qualifying. And yet every year, some idiot writer puts Chuck Knoblauch or this year, Todd Stottlemeyer or Shawon Dunston. You vote for crap, you lose your vote. Period.

Anyone who changes their vote from year to year based on who the top candidates are. Nothing has changed for Jim Rice since he retired. Either he belongs or he doesn't. Yet every year, the marginal candidates have votes that go up or down based on who is at the top of the ballot. If you don't understand that you are supposed to vote for up to 10 players and that no one is a Hall of Famer one year, not a Hall of Famer the next year, and then a Hall of Famer the next year, you're out. Period.

Ever since Rice topped Gil Hodges, everyone has assumed that he'd get in eventually, since no one with a higher vote percentage than Gil has been denied - I just hope that is the case, especially now, and that Rickey's slam-dunk candidacy doesn't perversely take away too many votes in his last year.

In a way I do think it is appropriate that Rice will wait til his last year. He is a marginal candidate. If he hadn't broken down and lost it at a relatively young age, he'd have reached those milestone marks like 2500 RBI and 400 homers. Heck, if he had only averaged a single hit more for his 15 year career, he'd have hit .300 overall. So this will mean that next year, Rice will be the focus of discussion and commentary. He's practically at the goal line, so feets don't fail me now.

[Quincy]

Blyleven too ought to be in, and is overwhelmingly more qualified than Jack Morris.

That SI article by Heyman was painful. Based on his logic of Blyleven vs. Morris I was tempted to send an email to point out that in their one playoff confrontation Blyleven beat Morris, so obviously he should recant his vote for Morris and switch over to Bert. Truth is I don't mind all that much if someone does vote for Morris and Blyleven, it's the Morris and not Blyleven that irks me. (Though if you're going to let Morris in, I'd go back and add Luis Tiant, and...)

It would be really screwy if his [Tim Raines] vote total actually goes down next year when Rickey Henderson is on the ballot, as if voters would be foolish enough to decide he is so "inferior" that he should get fewer votes while Rickey is on the ballot.

And you know that will happen too. Oof. I don't know if he'll ever get by the writers either given how strange his career was. Through age 27 he was off the charts. 70 SB & over .300 & terrific OBP, never mind the "is that a data entry error?" 71 SB in 88 games as a 21 year old. Had he been able to play second base he'd be an automatic. But after he turned 27 the batting dropping around 50 points. Granted it came down from .330 and his OBP remained high. And he was "only" stealing 40-50 SB for the next few years. And then from age 31 on he was merely a solid American League player, a guy who got on and who stole less in each passing year, although during a time when managers sent their runners less. If he had died in a car crash at 29 he'd be the French Canadian James Dean and likely have gotten into the Hall quickly by a special vote. Instead we have the less sexy arc of aging on display for 23 seasons.

But that just reminds me of how much bullshit the voters put out, year in and year out. In my opinion, the following votes should be grounds for immediate dismissal from the electorate:

Anyone who votes for any of the new nominees, the ones who haven't any possible claim to qualifying. And yet every year, some idiot writer puts Chuck Knoblauch or this year, Todd Stottlemeyer or Shawon Dunston. You vote for crap, you lose your vote. Period.

I think a good stoning is in order for the Dunston vote. Gee, he may have been a nice fellow to some reporter, but c'mon. I think the Finley vote was dumb too, but at least he won 200 and finished 2nd in ERA a couple of times. But Dunston? What, led the league in most concussions for fans in the seats behind 1st base caused by his throws for 10 years running?

Anyone who changes their vote from year to year based on who the top candidates are. Nothing has changed for Jim Rice since he retired...

Yes & no. Rice's numbers haven't changed, but think of how baseball has changed since he first became eligible and now. His HR total for one was higher up the list when he retired, and guys who hit close to 400 HRs but not 500 were still considered powerful sluggers. Once it became more common for guys to hit 50 HR in a season people stopped talking about Dale Murphy's case as well, and less than 500 HR suddenly wasn't enough for power hitters. (Well, not quite true as Perez & Cepeda got in during this time, but it took some orchestrated campaigns to push them in after years of not getting in.) Now that so many of the bigger numbers are questionable, suddenly Rice's numbers seem more legit. Though not enough feel that way for entry this year.

The other thing is the insane amount of statistical information that is available now compared to 14 years ago, and so much of it for free thanks to cheaper computing power & the net. Not that many of the voters are sophisticated enough to digest them. But some negatives have come out for Rice, such as his road averages, that weren't easily known 12-15 years ago.

So those kinds of things can change one's perception. However, I do agree with you that since you can vote up to 10, and it would be better if these clowns would spend some time doing some research about the more qualified candidates instead of voting for Knoblach, Dunston and the like as some kind of joke or one last tribute to a long time player. If you want to do that write a web "where are they now" column about the guy spelling out what made him so swell.

At least Gossage got in. As far as the rest go, in the past I've mostly favored a "tight" HoF. But I would far rather have Dawson, Blyleven, Rice, Raines, Morris, Tiant, Tommy John, Murphy, McGwire, Dick Allen, Kaat, and several others all get in rather than Bowie Kuhn. Grrrrrrrrr.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Quincy

[Dan Gould]

Some good points there, Eric. To clarify what I meant about Rice - if you put him in, there's no reason to stop voting for him subsequently (unless you really really hate his home/road splits and think he was just a by-product of Fenway) - otherwise, those changes you mention generally started working in his favor, once the issue of PEDs broke through.

I've always been a more inclusive guy when it comes to the Hall - but I do draw the line at Jack Morris.

[Quincy]

I've always been a more inclusive guy when it comes to the Hall - but I do draw the line at Jack Morris.

But he has such a cool mustache, and would have looked great in a 1930s flannel uniform.

One thing that those who are disappointed about their favorite players not making the Hall of Fame can do is go to What If Sports, make a team of Hall Of Famers and one of guys who had some great seasons but otherwise didn't make it, and bash 'em against each other.

What if...another time waster brought to you be the internet.

[Dan Gould]

Eric Bedard to the M's?

That would be the smartest move the M's have made in a long time. King Felix and Bedard would make an excellent one-two punch, it almost makes up for that ludicrous Silva signing. Or at least it puts him where he belongs, a 3-4-5 guy instead of something he's not, which is an ace.

You M fans should keep your fingers crossed that this gets done.

[Patrick]

New name for the ballpark in Cleveland. Jacobs Field, named after a past owner, will now be called Progressive Field, after the insurance company. My guess was that the Cleveland Clinic was going to prevail. Recognizing that the (corporate) name of any field is rather inconsequential [Enron Field, and whatever that now bankrupt outfit was that slapped its name on the Ravens monstrosity...PSINet??], gotta say that referring to that park as the Jake or Jake by the Lake was cool, and I'm not yet excited about the Prog??? ...Hopefully the home team will make a lot of progress playing there...and many of us will still refer to it as the Jake.

When the neighboring Cavaliers switched their label from Gund Arena (again, named after a former owner) to Quicken Loans Arena, I groaned (really ugly sign and logo). But am happy now referring to it as the "Q".

---

Bedard to Mariners would be great for Seattle, provided they don't create a deep area of weakness in their farm system in the process.

[Aggie87]

My vote for worst name for a sports home is where the Utah Jazz play, the "EnergySolutions Arena". ES is a waste management company.

[Patrick]

Especially when they used to play in a place called the Salt Palace!!!

[Dan Gould]

Assuming it goes through, this Troy Glaus for Scott Rolen is a somewhat surprising deal, with a lot of risk on both sides.

If Rolen recovers his power stroke, the Blue Jays got a major upgrade at 3B. If not, they've committed a lot of money for three more years of a guy who looked like a potential hall of famer until he started getting hurt.

The Cards dump the salary (and the nastiness between him and LaRussa) for a passable 3B who probably stays healthier on grass. Most importantly, I think that Glaus is only signed through 2009, and for fewer dollars than Rolen. So even if he falls off a cliff or keeps getting hurt, he'll be easier to deal with going forward.

Funny, I always liked Rolen (and had to prefer him over LaRussa's monstrous ego) but now I am going to have to hope that he will continue his decline. Otherwise, if he gets healthy, the Blue Jay lineup just got closer to the level of the Sox/Yanks.

[Chalupa]

R.I.P. Johnny Podres

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_updat...dies_at_75.html

Four decades later, he was manager Jim Fregosi's pitching coach when the 1993 Phillies won their unlikely NL pennant. His ace was Schilling, who had come to Philadelphia the year before as reliever uncertain of both his stuff and his future.

Schilling, who became an ardent disciple of Mr. Podres and his low-key but hyper-positive style, loved to tell the story of how that transformation began during their first meeting.

"I was coming from a bad situation in Houston," Schilling recalled in a 1995 interview. "The stadium was empty that day, and it was raining as we walked down to the bullpen. He asked to see my fastball, so I showed him a two-seamer, which is what I threw then."

"What the hell was that?" Podres barked.

"A fastball," Schilling said.

"That ain't no [expletive] fastball. That's a [expletive] sinker," replied the pitching coach, spitting out the final word.

Podres lunged for the ball, grabbed it across four seams, displayed the grip to Schilling, and handed the ball back. What followed was a fastball - and a career - that rose.

"Now that," said Podres, pacing, puffing, pleased, "is a [expletive] big-league fastball."

Yesterday, Schilling noted Mr. Podres' passing on his blog, 38 Pitches.

"Outside of the Lord, my wife and my father, there was no person who impacted my life more than Johnny Podres," Schilling, now a staple with the world-champion Boston Red Sox, wrote. "He asked everything of me and always got everything I had. He made me realize the only limits in my life were self-imposed."