Peter Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 I see this "DSD" on some rolling stones remasters. Don't know what "DSD" is or means. Any help? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 (edited) I see this "DSD" on some rolling stones remasters. Don't know what "DSD" is or means. Any help? Thanks. I always thought it stood for "Direct Stream Digital." Edit: I just checked. Here's the definition from Wikipedia: "Direct-Stream Digital (DSD) is the trademark name used by Sony and Philips for their system of recreating audible frequencies which uses pulse-density modulation encoding, a technology to store audio signals on digital storage media which is used for the Super Audio CD (SACD). The signal is stored as delta-sigma modulated digital audio, a sequence of single bit values at a frequency sampling rate of 64 times the CD Audio sampling rates of 44.1 kHz, for a rate of 2.8224 MHz (1 bit times 64 times 44.1 kHz). Noise shaping occurs by use of the 64× oversampled signal to reduce noise/distortion caused by the inaccuracy of quantization of the audio signal to a single bit. Therefore it is a topic of discussion whether it is possible to eliminate distortion in 1-bit Sigma-Delta conversion (see Audio Engineering Society Convention Paper 5395 in the External Links section below). There has been much controversy between proponents of DSD and PCM over which encoding system is superior. Professors Stanley Lipshitz and John Vanderkooy from the University of Waterloo, in Audio Engineering Society Convention Paper 5395 (2001), stated that 1-bit converters (as employed by DSD) are unsuitable for high-end applications due to their high distortion. Even 8-bit, four-times-oversampled PCM with noise shaping, proper dithering and half data rate of DSD has better noise floor and frequency response. However, in 2002, Philips published a convention paper arguing against this in Convention Paper 5616. Lipshitz and Vanderkooy's paper has been criticized in detail by Professor James Angus at an Audio Engineering Society presentation in Convention Paper 5619. Lipshitz and Vanderkooy responded in Convention Paper 5620. Practical DSD converter implementations were pioneered by Ed Meitner, an Austrian sound engineer and owner of EMM Labs. Global DSD technology was developed by Sony and Philips, the designers of the audio CD. Philips' DSD tool division was transferred to Sonic Studio, LLC in 2005 for on-going design and development. DSD technology may also have potential for video applications. A similar structure based on pulse-width modulation, which is decoded in the same way as DSD, has been used in Laserdisc video." Edited April 21, 2008 by Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Direct Stream Digital I believe. It is a Sony process for converting analog to digital, an integral part of their SACD mastering process. http://www.dsdproaudio.com/html/dsd_sacd_explained.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarke68 Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 (edited) I see this "DSD" on some rolling stones remasters. Don't know what "DSD" is or means. Any help? Thanks.In that particular case, I think it means you have the remastered Rolling Stones albums, "secretly" released as Hybrid-SACDs. Back when Sony was promoting SACD, they converted their Terre Haute plant to the (full time?) production of SACDs, and started working the labels to convince them to support the format. Whichever label it was that produced the Rolling Stones remasters you have (Abcko?) got behind it, but thought that labeling the discs "Hybrid SACD" might make people think these were only for audiophiles, and thus hurt sales. SACD has since (unfortunately) failed to take off, Sony no longer promotes it, and the Terre Haute plant's SACD output has been reduced to one day a week, last I heard. Those Abcko SACD remasters are OOP, getting pretty rare, and aren't ridiculously expensive on eBay yet, but getting there. Edited April 21, 2008 by clarke68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 I see this "DSD" on some rolling stones remasters. Don't know what "DSD" is or means. Any help? Thanks.In that particular case, I think it means you have the remastered Rolling Stones albums, "secretly" released as Hybrid-SACDs. Back when Sony was promoting SACD, they converted their Terre Haute plant to the (full time?) production of SACDs, and started working the labels to convince them to support the format. Whichever label it was that produced the Rolling Stones remasters you have (Abcko?) got behind it, but thought that labeling the discs "Hybrid SACD" might make people think these were only for audiophiles, and thus hurt sales. SACD has since (unfortunately) failed to take off, Sony no longer promotes it, and the Terre Haute plant's SACD output has been reduced to one day a week, last I heard. Those Abcko SACD remasters are OOP, getting pretty rare, and aren't ridiculously expensive on eBay yet, but getting there. I had no idea that the Stones SACDs had gone OOP. I think I have most of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 The situation with the Rolling Stones discs (and other ABKCO SACDs) is particularly confusing, because the hybrid SACDs were replaced at some point by regular CDs (identical to the CD layer of the hybrid SACDs) , keeping the same reference number. This confused many buyers and stores. The SACDs were sold in digipaks, while the CDs are in jewel cases and marked "DSD remastered". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 That helps. Thanks. Borders has the Stones DSD (not SACD) on sale for $10. Think I'll pick up some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 (edited) As long as I've got such knowledgeable people to ask, anyone care to comment on remasters of Sticky Fingers, Exile on Main Street? Thanks. Edited April 22, 2008 by Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 The only time that Sticky Fingers/Exile on Main Street were re-mastered to my knowledge was when Virgin had the rights to the Stones post 1970 recordings in the 90's. They both sound excellent, to my ears anyway, look for the Virgin label and Bob Ludwigs name on the back of the CD and you have the right ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 It's worth noting (if Kevin B hasn't already mentioned it here) that 25 BN SACDs will be released by Acoustic Sounds, all DSD-remastered by Steve Hoffman/Kevin Gray. Jackie McLean - Capuchin Swing John Patton - Along Came John Ike Quebec - It Might As Well Be Spring Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers - Moanin' Hank Mobley - A Caddy For Daddy Jackie McLean - Jackie's Bag Dexter Gordon - Go Lou Donaldson - Blues Walk Dexter Gordon - Dexter Calling Fred Jackson - Hootin' 'N Tootin' Grant Green - Idle Moments Grant Green - Green Street Art Taylor - A.T.'s Delight Lee Morgan - Lee-way Paul Chambers - Whims of Chambers Joe Henderson - Page One Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else Ike Quebec - Soul Samba Bossa Nova Lou Donaldson - Here 'Tis Horace Silver - The Tokyo Blues John Coltrane - Blue Train Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue The Three Sounds - Bottom's Up Kenny Dorham - Whistle Stop Sonny Rollins - Vol. 2 They have already been reviewed by Stereophile: "…As much as I'd love to relay all kinds of anecdotes about the challenges Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray encounter during the mastering sessions, I witness none. These boys know the sound of the facility and the Van Gelder masters like the backs of their hands…Back home a month later, I unpack some test pressings Chad Kassem has sent me…I hear the most realistic-sounding drums ever reproduced by my system. It's as though I'm sitting at the point of creation, experiencing the same high that brought such gifted musicians together as one. Steve Hoffman, Kevin Gray, Chad Kassem, and Don MacInnis have done Rudy Van Gelder and his Blue Note artists proud." – Jason Victor Serinus, Stereophile, April 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Actually that Sphile review turns out to be specific to the 45 rpm BN vinyl that was recently issued and it turns out Hoffman has not yet started remastering these for SACD (even though they're already up for preorder at Acousticsounds.com). And thanks to Hans for the heads-up on Kevin's thread. I missed that or I wouldn't have repeated the info here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 and the SACD releases have a thread already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Hey Chuck, that's what I said. And thanks to Hans for the heads-up on Kevin's thread. I missed that or I wouldn't have repeated the info here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabgrass Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Normally, I'm never overly impressed with remasterings... but I'll tell you, when I heard the DSDs of some of the Miles Davis catalog, holy shit! There is a noticeable difference, particularly in detail. I have listened to this catalog many many times in many different configuations over the years and thought I had heard it all... but no... take Sketches Of Spain for instance... I was like "Hey! Since when is there a harp on this?!" And the added detail on Kind Of Blue is almost to the point of annoying. I mean, I don't really think we need to hear Coltrane's teeth on his mouthpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesnik Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 The situation with the Rolling Stones discs (and other ABKCO SACDs) is particularly confusing, because the hybrid SACDs were replaced at some point by regular CDs (identical to the CD layer of the hybrid SACDs) , keeping the same reference number. This confused many buyers and stores. The SACDs were sold in digipaks, while the CDs are in jewel cases and marked "DSD remastered". and what about the Japanese mini LP remasters? there was a bunch of them released last year. were these also DSD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 As long as we're talking about remasters, anybody got any suggestions for Otis Redding? I've got the Otis Redding Story 3 disc box and it sounds like shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GregM Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 As long as we're talking about remasters, anybody got any suggestions for Otis Redding? I've got the Otis Redding Story 3 disc box and it sounds like shit. Only vinyl...but I got a taste of how good Otis can sound on the Sopranos soundtrack SACD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riverrat Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 Those Abcko SACD remasters are OOP, getting pretty rare, and aren't ridiculously expensive on eBay yet, but getting there. Bottom feeders like me may want to watch for the UK version of the Aftermath SACD being sold on eBay by a seller who seems to have a large supply of copies without the digipack - just the disc itself. These usually go for pretty cheap because of the lack of packaging. I bought one of these at least two years ago, and I saw some being sold recently by the same seller. It is very curious how this seller came to have such an apparently large supply of these, and why it is just this title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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