Sports and drugs

[brownie]

The next few days should be interesting for those who are concerned with the widespread use of drug-related performance-enhancing substances in sports.

This from AFP:

Bonds Subpoenaed in Steroid Inquiry

SAN FRANCISCO, Oct. 18 (Agence France-Presse) — The sprinter Kelli White and the baseball star Barry Bonds were among 40 athletes subpoenaed by a federal grand jury here in a new steroid scandal.

Victor Conte, a nutritionist and president of Balco Laboratories in suburban Burlingame, told The San Jose Mercury News and The San Francisco Chronicle that his top clients are being asked to testify about tetrahydrogestrinone, or THG.

The United States Anti-Doping Agency revealed Thursday that the substance, previously unable to be detected in testing, was found in several athletes who competed in June at the national track and field meet, a qualifying event for the world championships in Paris.

Terry Madden, chief executive of the agency, described Conte and Balco as being part of an international conspiracy.

"I know of no other bust that involved anabolic steroids with this number," Madden said.

White confirmed to The Mercury News that she was subpoenaed but denied a role in the steroid inquiry.

"I really don't have anything to do with that situation," she said. "That's not me."

White could lose her two gold medals and $120,000 in prize money after testing positive for the mild stimulant modafinil, a drug for narcolepsy, at the world meet.

Balco's former medical director, Brian Goldman, prescribed modafinil, which White also told The Washington Post that she tested positive for at the United States meet, adding that she expects both positives to be investigated soon.

Conte told the newspapers that seven American football players and five Major League Baseball players were among those compelled to testify in hearings here that are expected to begin next week.

"I do know that Barry has received a subpoena," Conte wrote in an e-mail to The Chronicle. "There are at least seven N.F.L. players that I know of, plus at least four professional baseball players that have received a subpoena. Most of the other athletes are from track and field. My understanding is that 40 elite Olympic and professional athletes have been subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury."

Federal agents took medical records of Conte's clients in a Sept. 3 raid on his lab.

Bonds, the San Francisco Giants slugger who is baseball's single-season home run king, and Bill Romanowski, a linebacker for the Oakland Raiders, are on Conte programs.

The Post reported that the shot-putter Kevin Toth was among the athletes who had tested positive for THG, citing unnamed sources.

John Nubani, Toth's agent, said Toth was most likely unaware that his package of supplements contained a banned substance because he did not know THG was a steroid and it was not on the International Olympic Committee's banned list.

Conte, who has been marketing nutritional supplements aimed at athletes for the past decade, ripped the anti-doping agency for comparing his supplements to anabolic steroids, telling the newspapers that even a small molecular difference in anabolic steroids renders them ineffective.

"To make these kind of statements without a single scientific study to support them is outrageous," Conte said. "There needs to be scientific research conducted and published in credible scientific journals before such conclusions can be made."

Others are not convinced.

"It's a major scandal," Christiane Ayotte of an I.O.C.-accredited lab in Montreal told The Toronto Star. "This is the tip of the iceberg."

While United States track officials praised the fact that an unhappy coach brought a steroid sample to the doping watchdogs, the inability of testing to find the substance shows how far behind the detectors are.

"The fact of the matter is drug testing didn't catch anybody," Charles Yesalis, an anabolic steroid expert, told The Mercury News. "The notion that this is the only designer drug out there, well, you have to believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus."

[BruceH]

Wow. And I always thought Burlingame was such a nice little town.

[brownie]

Turns out that nutritionist Victor Conte who is at the center of this is also a jazz/rock musician (bass and bass guitar) who has played with Don 'Sugarcane' Harris, Tower of Power and Herbie Hancock.

Small world!

[PHILLYQ]

So, are you saying that it's possible that Barry Bonds, who gained 50 pounds of muscle in his mid-30s, might be juicing? WHAT A SHOCK!!!

[vajerzy]

Nope, doesn't happen- no such thing steroids in baseball, let alone in sports......

Watch ESPN classic for the World series games from years past and see how small the players look. Heck the 1993 WS with the Phils/Jays was on and then the players looked small compared to the ones from today (except for Dykstra- he was juiced).

[Dave James]

Jason Giambi is among the five MLB players subpoenaed to testify. I know he's a good sized guy, but as far as I know, he's always been that way. It's not like to miraculous transformation of a Barry Bond or a Sammy Sosa. Sosa is so obvious, only a total knucklehead (the phone is for you Bud) wouldn't know he's juicing. Just look at him back when he played with the White Sox. Why I'll be darned, he looks a lot like Barry Bonds when he was a Pirate. If any of you read Sports Illustrated, you may recall Rick Reilly (easily SI's best columnist) sitting with Sammy and asking him if he'd be willing to accompany him (Reilly) that very day and be tested for steriods. Apparently, as he got up to leave, Sammy started launching F bombs in Reilly's direction like his mouth had been corked. That kind of tells me all I need to know.

The whole drug think in pro sports is an accident waiting to happen. To a certain extent, especially in football, I can understand the mind set. If you think the guy across the line is amped up, you don't want to fall too far behind because it's all about strength, quickness and speed. Keepin' up with the Jonses as it were. If any of the professional sport's leagues hadn't let themselves be whipsawed by their own Players Associations, then maybe there would be some teeth in their drug policies. As it is, anyone is pretty much free and clear to do whatever they please.

In baseball, the thing that really bothers me about the drug issue is the sanctity of the records that are such an integral part of the game's history and legacy. If Bonds or Sosa or McGwire were using steriods when they broke or break all those home run records, then they ought to be collectively run out of town on a rail. Or worse, have an asterisk next to their name in the record books.

Up over and out.

[AfricaBrass]

In baseball, the thing that really bothers me about the drug issue is the sanctity of the records that are such an integral part of the game's history and legacy. If Bonds or Sosa or McGwire were using steriods when they broke or break all those home run records, then they ought to be collectively run out of town on a rail. Or worse, have an asterisk next to their name in the record books.

I agree. This really taints the game for me too. Heck, I'm still suspicious of Sosa's record after his cork bat incident.

[vajerzy]

I think that minor league players are willing to take the risk of using steroids to get to the major league level, and continue to use it to stay there. Once you have that great year, then it's guaranteed contract time, baby!

Brady Anderson hitting 50 home runs?? C'mon!!

I think Javy Lopez got huge this year, compared to previous years.......last year of his contract, free agent next year, had some lousy seasons that past few years, Johnny Estrada knocking on the door...... coincidence?

Did anyone break 50 home runs this year?? Did MLB state they would do random drug testing this year? Sosa had 60+ HRs for 3 straight years....

Corked bat allows you to increase your swing speed to hit the ball father, since the bat is lighter.....I'm still surprised that people resort to it, because it doesn't make the ball go farther- read the Physics of Baseball by Adair.

[BERIGAN]

Guys, Steroids do damage over time, as Much as I love McGuire, he had lots of joint problems, Canseco was always injured as well.....(and of course he has admitted to steroids) but Bonds and Sosa NEVER go on the disabled list.....I have heard sportswriters mention that Barry has a personal trainer, and works out like a fiend....lets not stick an asterisk next to his numbers yet...

It will be an interesting story when it all comes out....maybe, just maybe, that company put steroids in their products without the players knowing it....The Company would make a fortune once players gained muscle mass, and told all their friends, no, no drugs, just the right combo of amino acids, protein, etc, etc,etc....

[vajerzy]

I guess if you look hard enough, you can put asterisks on practically anything: new stadiums are smaller, pitching is watered down due to expansion, lowering of the pitchers mound in 1968, Gaylord Perry loading the ball up,

I don't believe in the asterisks approach, and if it is proved that Bonds and Sosa used some sort of performance enhancing elixir then everything should remain the same. As long as the players association remains the way it is, then nothing will be done.....and baseball gets a real commissioner, who's totally objective.

[BruceH]

Agreed. And that'll happen (a real commissioner, who's objective and has power) about when all the RVG's and Conns go triple platinum.

[Dave James]

Bruce - Nicely turned. Bringing this discussion full circle from baseball to jazz in a completely coherent manner.

Up over and out.

[brownie]

Up because now Victor Conte tells all (all?!?)about it.

From AFP:

Conte claims Jones was drugs cheat before Sydney Olympics

SAN FRANCISCO (AFP) - Athletics star Marion Jones  received illegal performance-enhancing drugs before winning five medals at the Sydney Olympics, accused steroid distributor Victor Conte said in an interview.

ABC television aired a portion of an interview with Conte in which he claimed not only to have supplied Jones with several banned drugs but also instructed her how to use them and watched as she injected herself in the leg.

"She did the injection with me sitting right there next to her, right in front of me," Conte said.

Asked in the interview if Jones was a drug cheat, Conte replied, "Without a doubt."

The full interview is scheduled to be telecast Friday on the American news show "20-20".

Jones, who has steadfastly denied any wrongdoing, won three gold medals and two bronze medals at Sydney but struggled this year simply to qualify for the Athens Games.

Jones has never failed a drug test but that means little. The US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) fingered Conte's BALCO Labs as the source of the previously undetectable designer steriod tetrahydrogestrinone (THG).

"It's like taking candy from a baby," Conte said of eluding dope tests, according to a story on the ABC News website.

Conte said he supplied Jones with a variety of banned drugs from August of 2000 through September of 2001, including EPO, human growth hormone, insulin and "the clear", a form of THG.

The San Jose Mercury News reported in May that Conte named Jones to federal investigators as one of 27 athletes he supplied with illegal drugs. Lawyers for Conte denied at that time that Conte named any athletes who received drugs.

Jones' lawyers have argued that Conte cannot be believed because of his role in a scandal which has rocked athletics and cast a shadow over baseball.

"Mr. Conte's statements have been wildly contradictory while Marion Jones has steadfastly maintained her position throughout - she has never, ever, used performance enhancing drugs," Jones attorney Rich Nichols said in a statement.

Conte, BALCO vice president James Valente, athletics coach Remy Korchemny and Greg Anderson, persoal trainer for baseball star Barry Bonds, face charges of steroid distribution. All have pleaded not guilty.

The BALCO trial, which featured testimony from several top athletes a year ago, is likely to begin in March, when baseball hero Bonds will be preparing for a season in which he will likely pass Babe Ruth to become second on the all-time home run list.

Conte told ABC he provided steroids to Anderson but had no specific knowledge of Bonds using the drugs, the Chicago Tribune reported.

Jones, like Bonds, has never faced charges of taking illegal drugs, although she was the subject of a major USADA investigation.

While not in the televised material, the ABC website story said Conte admitted producing custom-made doping plans for Jones, world 100-meter record holder Tim Montgomery and admitted drugs cheat Kelli White.

Conte said his program for Montgomery "included illegal activity" and said his record was as legitimate as any prior 100m mark, hinting that he considers prior world marks as being achieved with the aid of banned substances.

According to USADA, 10 athletes have been sanctioned for testing positive for THG or modafinil, two of the drugs USADA believes are linked to BALCO.

Sprinters White and Alvin Harrison were banned for using THG and other drugs not after positive tests but on the basis of materials gleaned in the BALCO grand jury investigation.

New York Yankees baseball slugger Jason Giambi and his brother Jeremy were named in a San Francisco Chronicle story Thursday as having testified to taking performance-enahncing drugs from BALCO.

[AmirBagachelles]

What about pitchers using steroids? I haven't heard anything about that and in Bond's defense experts say he has hand-eye coordination on par w/ Teddy Baseball, Musial, Gwynn, Carew, the greats. That counts for a lot in baseball. So you take away the fierce power w/ steroids, then Bonds would have seen more pitches over the plate and then what? More extra base hits and HRs. Bonds is Bonds, the best. Bonds has probably not been juiced up for awhile, the heat has been on for more than a year.

Edited December 3, 2004 by AmirBagachelles

[Quincy]

Jason Giambi is among the five MLB players subpoenaed to testify.  I know he's a good sized guy, but as far as I know, he's always been that way.

Nah, Giambi came up as a fairly thin doubles kind of guy without the "big guns" and veins popping out of the arms. His mentor on the A's was Mark "Andro" McGwire, and in time he got huge.

I'd love to see a report on cap size changes for some of these players, as unless we're talking about someone going from a shaved head to long hair that's a tell tale sign. I wear a 7 7/8s hat size (believe, no steroids here given my lack of muscle mass ) which is rarely stocked (not that I buy hats much.) I've heard there are a few players who wear 8 1/8 now.

[Guy Berger]

Back in Black

[brownie]

Thanks for the link, Guy!

Very funny (very sad too)...

[PHILLYQ]

What about pitchers using steroids? I haven't heard anything about that and in Bond's defense experts say he has hand-eye coordination on par w/ Teddy Baseball, Musial, Gwynn, Carew, the greats. That counts for a lot in baseball. So you take away the fierce power w/ steroids, then Bonds would have seen more pitches over the plate and then what? More extra base hits and HRs. Bonds is Bonds, the best. Bonds has probably not been juiced up for awhile, the heat has been on for more than a year.

Consider that steroids give you more power, and thus greater distance on a well-hit ball,but do not improve coordination. Now consider that Bonds would have hit at least 15 warning-track flyballs a year, maybe even more. If you take those 15 outs and convert them to homers, you move into a some pretty special company as far as offensive production. Toss in his body armor and plate-leaning(He's not the only one doing that), and the refusal of the umps to call the inside strike, and now the strike zone has shrunk AND he can hit the ball a greater distance. The saddest part to me about Bonds and the juice is that he would probably have had a great career without juice. He'd have over 500 homers at least. Now, he's asterisk-man.

[Dr. Rat]

Well, if what we want to see if "excellence," I don't see why we should object to athletes doing anything they want to their own bodies in order to achieve it. I look forward to genetically modified monsters playing sports. Because, after all, this is what professional sports is about: spectacle and excess.

We all remeber the amateurism rules in the Olympics. Why did we have them? What was so dirty about professionalism?

Our 19th-Century forbears thought that athleticism ought to be kept in its place: it ought to be a part of everybody's life. And some people, through genetics or insight or greater expenditure of effort would be better than the rest of us.

Amateurism was meant to exclude those who neglected the rest of what would be a normal life--a job, familial obligations, service, whatever--in favor of sport.

The logical outcome of professionalized sports is athletes who will sacrifice literally everything to gain the accolades and the money of other people who mostly choose athlete worship--a willingness to fork over large amounts of money and time to see athletes who are notionally "the best" (not that most people are any judges of athletic performance, anyway)--over doing anything athletic in their own lives.

This isn't an athlete problem. This is a fan problem. Monster athletes are just the flip side of the whole monster sports coin.

--eric

[pryan]

If anyone believes Bonds that he didn't know he was using steroids, they should get their head examined quickly. He tries to blame his trainer, that's a load of crap. Still, I don't think his accomplishments should have an asterisk next to them. Hitting home runs is a difficult thing to do, whether you're on steroids or not. Maybe the added muscle helps, maybe not. Hitting a baseball at the major league level has a lot to do with mental stuff, knowing the pitcher, knowing what pitch to swing at, etc. The even more amazing about Bonds is that he barely gets any pitches to hit; he set the record for walks in a season. He's definitely an amazing ball-player, even if he is a lying, pompous, jackass at the same time.

[Dan Gould]

Hitting home runs is a difficult thing to do, whether you're on steroids or not. Maybe the added muscle helps, maybe not.

That's a nutty statement if I've ever seen one.

Of course added muscle helps. As noted above, if 15 warning track flies go out because you juiced, you enter pretty heady company. And to an extent, Eric is right in that the pressure to perform when in the minors can be so overwhelming, players go to any length to get that extra edge. The Boston Globe had an article about Gabe Kapler, who is one of the biggest guys in the game but talked about how intent he was on getting stronger and doing it naturally. The man would get up in the middle of the night just to eat something, to keep his fuel at a constant rate to aid muscle mass. And he talked about guys in the minors who had warning track power, then started to juice, hit homers, and rose through the minors.

Another factor to consider is the comparison between Bonds in his late thirties and the medical fact that starting at 35, the body starts to lose muscle mass. There was an article I saw which compared Bonds numbers to his 'expected' numbers and the difference was just sick. Even accounting for Bonds considerable skills and the likelihood that he would continue to perform at above average levels, the difference was still ridiculous.

And the last thing to remember about Bonds is just how plausible his denials are.

Let's remember his trainer is his lifelong friend.

The life long friend meets Giambi when he and Bonds go to Japan on one of those major league tours.

Giambi approaches him and asks how Barry does it, says he wants to be like Barry and perform at that level at that age.

Bond's buddy takes him on as a client and Giambi knows all about what substances he's getting, how they work, etc., etc.

And yet, we're supposed to believe that this trainer told Giambi exactly what he was getting but never told Bonds.

And we're supposed to believe that Bonds accepted "flaxseed oil" only from his trainer, when you can get it yourself at any healthfood store.

Bonds should go to the hall of fame, and when he gets there, the crowd and the members on the stage should all walk out or turn their backs on him. Everyone except Gaylord Perry that is.

[pryan]

OK, Dan, points taken. But hitting a baseball is kind of like hitting a golf ball (note I said "kind of). It doesn't matter as much how "big" you are. I golf with a guy who is just over five feet tall, but he hits the golf ball over 300 yards sometimes. He is not on steroids or any other drugs. The swing is the thing, if you will.

Hank Aaron was not on the juice and he clubbed 755 dingers. He consistently had high home run totals. It was his batting stroke, for the most part and his ability to read pitches/anticipate what was coming at him.

I think we also have to take some other factors into consideration when looking at recent lofty home run totals. Number one, there are far more teams in the majors nowadays, thereby diluting the pitching quality considerably. If Aaron was facing the guys Bonds is today, would he have hit 800, 900, 1000? We'll never know, but it's worth thinking about.

Maybe muscle mass does decrease after hitting that age (35), but I think if you take care of yourself well-enough then you could minimize the loss. For example, eating healthy foods, drinking lots of water, taking nutritional supplements, etc.

I'm not trying to defend Bonds, but am just taking a slightly different viewpoint.

Edited December 16, 2004 by pryan

[Dan Gould]

I understand where you're coming from, Paul, but don't you think that if you don't have to hit the ball on the sweet spot everytime, but can still muscle it out, your homer numbers are going to increase?

And as far as Hank goes, he never hit 50 homers in a season. That's the amazing thing-he was so consistent for so long, he finished with 755.

The swing really isn't the "thing" if you can muscle the ball out because you've juiced. The swing-and his quick wrists-was the thing for Aaron. But not for the muscle bound behemoths of today's game.

And one more thing. I read an article not too long ago that made a pretty good case that juicing can improve hand-eye coordination, too. The reason being, muscles react quicker to brain signals.

It looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this, however ...

[pryan]

I guess you can muscle it out once in a while, but I don't think it's that "easy" to do as you might think. As for the hand-eye thing, I can't say I've heard anything like that, but it might be true. That would explain it a lot better, for me at least.

Sure Aaron never hit 50, but when he played home run totals in the 30s and 40s were considered excellent. Today it seems you have to reach the fifty mark to be a so-called power hitter. Remember when Brady Anderson hit 50 in the leadoff spot for the Orioles; that was an aberration, IMO. Caused by drugs? Probably. I think his next highest total was something like 26. Now that's suspicious. At least guys like Bonds and McGuire were big home run guys before the "broke out". Bonds, it must said, hits for average too. He is a complete player and should enter the hall of fame.

[Dr. Rat]

I think a statistical analysis would find home run hitting corresponds pretty significantly with the weight of professional ballplayers, and not just because of Babe Ruth, even if you correct for lack of speed

One could argue that big players tend to be slow, so hitting home runs is the only thing they can do to justify their existence, therefore big ballplayers tend to hit more home runs. But I think even if you eliminated the big and slow--late Babe Ruth, Dave Kingman, Willie Stargell, etc.--you'd still find a pretty significant correspondence.

The argument that steroids don't work to enhance players' performance is to defy the expert "testimony" of the leading experts--the players themselves. Clearly they think steroids help, and not to make them run faster. In the absence of any real counter evidence, I'll believe the players.

--eric