Jazzmoose Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Okay, I'll admit that I'm embarrassed that my first thread in this beautiful new forum is a geeky one (sorry Jim!), but I was digging through my vinyl today, and noticed that the two LPs I've had in poly bags for the last ten years have fared a lot better than the others as far as jacket wear. So, at the risk of looking like an anal retentive collector type, I must ask: Does anyone have sources of poly (or preferably Mylar) bags for LPs and such that they would recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I get my bags from a local used vinyl dealer in Ann Arbor. I can't recall the brand at the moment but they are cheap and hold up well. I know that this post is meaningless, but I just wanted to post in the new forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I know that this post is meaningless, but I just wanted to post in the new forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 (edited) sleeves Edited October 24, 2003 by wolff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 (edited) I use Bags Unlimited because they also sell mailer boxes. Poly sleeves are a good idea but avoid putting oversized jackets in a sleeve that's too small. Your record will bow over time. As a general rule, poly sleevs are good and you'll avoid ringwear by not packing them too tight on your shelves. More important, actually, are poly-lined inner sleeves. Especially if they're currently in those awful 70's sandpaper sleeves. Edited October 24, 2003 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted October 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 More important, actually, are poly-lined inner sleeves. Especially if they're currently in those awful 70's sandpaper sleeves. I was thinking about that; those paper sleeves do seem somewhat abrasive for slipping vinyl into... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 No work has been done yet on the effects of acidic paper (90% of all paper sleeves) on either vinyl or shellac. In a perfect world, I'd have the time and funding to conduct that research myself but....I can't. Regardless, any study of that sort likely means applying artificial aging, which is problematic from the word "go". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted October 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 That brings up my reason for the mention of Mylar above. As a former comic book collector, I know what the highly acidic paper used for comics in the past can do to polyethelyne in just a few years; it's not pretty. However, the LPs I have are in polyethelyne bags, and there seems to be little, if any, reaction. Are LP jackets in general made of (by comparison) paper of low acidity? And if so, is polyethelyne fine? If my aversion to polyethelyne isn't really beneficial in the LP field, I'm certainly willing to save the money and go with cheaper bags... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 (edited) I wouldn't worry about mylar. The outer cardboard sleeves themselves aren't the problem. They're fine. It's the chemical reaction b/w the (clearly) acidic paper inside and the playing surface itself that has folks at the LC concerned. In otherwords, cardstock is made from better fibers than the inner sleeves AND has a glossy coating. Inner sleeves were dangerously close to strong newspaper in structural make-up -- and why not, right -- no one knew that there'd be a problem. They aren't so bad anymore, though I'm sure they're still marginally acidic in most cases today. You won't find a problem b/w the cover and the outer poly. At least, it's never been brought up as a concern in conservation circles. Edited October 24, 2003 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted October 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Great! Thanks for the help, Brandon! (And thanks to Jim for the new forum!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I should correct that statement. The primary concern is the fact that those 60's/70's inner sleeves are so abrasive. Especially the ones with no printing and the hole in the center. There's nothing good about those. The acidity thing is up for debate at this point but, rest assured, folks will begin publishing reports on that in the next handful of years, I'm sure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 However... I read recently that no kind of polythene inner sleeve was recommended for long term preservation of vinyl as it is water retentive and ultimately damages the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzhound Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Rice paper inner sleeves have been recommended by some posters previously. Anyone know where to get them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Rice paper inner sleeves have been recommended by some posters previously. Anyone know where to get them? I don't recommend rice. The Artist's House LPs were supplied in this supposedly elite material. Under pressure, which is how most LPs are stored, they can stick to the LP and bugger up the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 A word of warning. I've used poly and clear vinyl outer sleeves for years and most of the jackets still look like new with no ring wear. However some early Japanese jackets (King, Toshiba)with very shiny covers became welded to the vinyl outer completely ruining two jackets and spoiling a three or four more more to a lesser degree. I've also found that poly inners can stick to the surface of the disc as David mentions. Maybe both of these are due to record being stored under too much or too prolonged pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Maybe both of these are due to record being stored under too much or too prolonged pressure. I haven't spent enough time with Japanese LP covers to know how they differ but cramming your records too tight on the shelves is nothing but trouble. I imagine that the problem could have been avoided by storing the LPs under less pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Maybe both of these are due to record being stored under too much or too prolonged pressure. I haven't spent enough time with Japanese LP covers to know how they differ but cramming your records too tight on the shelves is nothing but trouble. I imagine that the problem could have been avoided by storing the LPs under less pressure. In my case, probably true. That said, it is *only* the rice inners that gave me this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I have used "rice paper" sleeves on all my vinyl since 1977. This means probably 30,000 of 'em overall. Not one has ever adhered to a record in any way and I certainly used to cram them together. I did have that trouble with the poly lined paper sleeves before I switched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertblues Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I also have had no problems with the rice paper sleeves, but for my rarest and most treasured lps (like that mint 1st pressing of Roll Call) I use the no-longer-available laser disc sleeves that used to be sold at a local used record store. I bought a bunch when I found out they were being discontinued. These are actually made of something very similar to rice paper reinforced with a stiffer paper (that does not come into contact with the vinyl). I'm pretty sure you can still get something very similar from audiophile vinyl suppliers. As for the covers, plastic sleeves are a must but the resealable Japanese outers (mylar?) are the best IMHO. These you can get from Bags Unlimited & elsewhere (pick up a copy of Discoveries or Goldmine for competetive pricing on quantities). Long live vinyl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I have used "rice paper" sleeves on all my vinyl since 1977. This means probably 30,000 of 'em overall. Not one has ever adhered to a record in any way and I certainly used to cram them together. I did have that trouble with the poly lined paper sleeves before I switched. When did you switch? As I remember, the first generation of "poly"-lined sleeves were made with a terrible clear plastic that stuck to everything like Saran Wrap. Interesting to hear that you've run into problems with modern poly-lined sleves. By modern I mean the ones with the translucent hazy finish, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 When did you switch?....... Interesting to hear that you've run into problems with modern poly-lined sleves. By modern I mean the ones with the translucent hazy finish, of course. No problem with the "translucent hazy finish" ones you mention, just the old clear ones. I think plastic engineers/chemists, at the time, called it "molecular migration". As stated, I switched in 1977. That was the year the pressing plant I used (as did ECM and Artist House) started importing them from Japan. As I remember, they cost $.07 each. I used them on all my pressings/repressings until they went out of business. I purchased them in bulk for my personal collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 When did you switch?....... Interesting to hear that you've run into problems with modern poly-lined sleves. By modern I mean the ones with the translucent hazy finish, of course. No problem with the "translucent hazy finish" ones you mention, just the old clear ones. I think plastic engineers/chemists, at the time, called it "molecular migration". As stated, I switched in 1977. That was the year the pressing plant I used (as did ECM and Artist House) started importing them from Japan. As I remember, they cost $.07 each. I used them on all my pressings/repressings until they went out of business. I purchased them in bulk for my personal collection. Gotcha. I just checked my copy of Warne Marsh All Music and that's what I'm talking about. I can't speak for 1977 because I wasn't paying attention to this issue back then but, by today's standards, those are not considered "poly-lined sleeves". The translucent ones I was talking about earlier (in so many words), as you know, are where it's at now and they don't seem to generate very many problems. As for the mylar referenced earlier: As I think about it more, mylar is the way to go (in the strictest conservation sense) but it's one of those situations where a necognizable difference won't manifest itself until all of us are long, long gone. My practical side says that those poly outer sleeves are just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 For a non-native English speaking person, sometimes the nomenclature is a bit confusing. I'm not sure what any particular types of sleeves discussed here actually are (except for "rice paper" ). Could someone please explain in very simple words - if possible - what 'poly' and 'mylar' is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted October 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 Both are plastic. Mylar is a trademarked name for a polyester film that is chemically inert. Polypropylene is a plastic similar to polyethylene, but with a higher melting point, etc. Supposedly it is superior to polyethylene for archival purposes, but not in the class of Mylar. Polyethylene is the cheapest of the three and reacts in just a few years of contact with paper acid to turn green, rubbery, sticky...well, I just don't like it okay? Here's an interesting link to get you started on figuring this all out... Polypropylene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 Here's a nice glossary of conservation terms..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.