Jazz Fusion & Progressive Rock

[Hot Ptah]

Shawn, I went back and read your first post on the thread. Do you have any questions there, which you think weren't fully answered?

I'm still a little fuzzy on where people think these 2 genres started (pre-Mahavishnu). There were a lot of experimental albums coming out in 1967 on both sides of the Atlantic. Can it be traced back pre-1967?

Have you read Stuart Nicholson's book, "Jazz-Rock"? He has an entire chapter on that very subject.

I trace it back to 1956, Sun Ra's "India" on his "Supersonic Jazz" album.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Hot Ptah

[Shawn]

Have you read Stuart Nicholson's book, "Jazz-Rock"? He has an entire chapter on that very subject.

I trace it back to 1956, Sun Ra's "India" on his "Supersonic Jazz" album.

I haven't read that, but I'll add it to my want list, sounds like a winner.

One song that sticks in my head is "Latona" from John Patton's Let 'Em Roll album, the riff to that song sounds like something either The Allman Brothers or Santana would be playing a few years later.

[.:.impossible]

Awesome reference.

[JSngry]

I know that Al Kooper in The Blues Project was trying to find a way to mix jazz and rock. This would've been 65-66, iirc.I'm barely familiar with that band's output, but he went straight from there to forming BS&T in mid-1967. so it was in the air in several differnet places, but Coryell, Kooper, the BN stuff, that's all pretty much East Coast. Out West, I don't know. Don Ellis' 1st electric album was came out in 1968, and there was a whole sub-scene going on around him and that. But '66? Hmmmm...I don't know. But it was L.A., the studios, and all that. They certainly had access to the gear...

Back to the east, Chico & Coryell did The Dealer in 1966, but that's not a "jazz rock" album per se, even though Coryell don't sound like no Kenny Burrell if you know what I mean.

For those who weren't around then, it's really hard to describe how the run from 65-67 just seemed to be one big trip, with things getting different seeming every minute. I was just a kid then, so no doubt I had an exaggerated sense of wonderment. But there was just some sort of cultural Big Bang going on, and you know how quickly things expand in the immediate aftermath of an explosion, only to slow down as the diffuse more. That's what rock/pop seemed to me to be doing at the time, and coming to jazz in the early 70s and getting hip to what had just happened, it seems the same there as well. I just think it was one of those times in hman history when thing happen in such a way that there is a metaphorical explosion, and thing merge becuase there's really no way for them not to.

Now, as for Prog rock, I can't say anything, because I never got too much off into that. But you gotta figure that a lot of the same thing was going on, that whole explosion and the rapid expansion/intermingling of various debris in the immediate aftermath.

What was the explosion? Maybe the Kennedy assassination, maybe The Beatles, maybe it was just time for one way of life to blow up from all the pent-up pressure. That I do not know.

[A Lark Ascending]

What was the explosion? Maybe the Kennedy assassination, maybe The Beatles, maybe it was just time for one way of life to blow up from all the pent-up pressure. That I do not know.

Kennedy might have been a trigger (sorry!) - the Profumo Scandal and the fall of the decayed Conservative government are often mooted as the triggers of the Swinging Sixties in the UK - but I'd say the causes are the same ones regularly touted for all the other social ferment of the period. In particular, a young generation with a higher level of education (and one spread across a wider social base) than any previously, money in their pockets, no war (in most cases) to go to and a general sense that a system based on authority and obedience had failed in the first half of the 20thC and had to be questioned. It's that willingness to question anything and look down alternative paths that marks the era. Throw in the technological innovations that made it so much easier to explore - cheap printing, TV, long playing records, cassettes, satellite connections that made news instant etc. And finally, a world watching the space race, especially the race to the moon - that really did give the feeling that human potential was limitless.

When did that optimism end? 1968 or Altamont the following year? I don't think so - it was still going when I really clicked in from 1969 onwards. I'd place it around 1973 with the Yom Kippur War and the oil crisis, a time that (in the UK at least) was even more frightening than the present financial crisis. Suddenly the limitless expansion of affluence was put into question, paving the way for the conservatism of the Thatcher/Reagan years.

Which is certainly why prog started to look so outmoded in the UK in the second half of the 70s. Long rock suites and spangly capes did not fit with the growing dole queues and the sense of political and social disintegration of those years.

************

On where prog started, I'd go with the Beatles too. A recent UK doc went for 'Whiter Shade of Pale'. I'm not sure when the term 'Progressive Rock' was first used but I recall reading about it c.1970 where it was very much a term to try to distinguish one sort of pop/rock (serious music played by skilled musicians) from another (bubblegum music played by paid-by-the-hour session musicians with pretty boy/girls up front). Of course the reality was much more mixed. But if anything distinguished Progressive rock it was a self-belief that what it was doing was not ephemeral and just might court consideration alongside more respectable musics like jazz or classical. In that sense you could trace it back to something like Dylan's 'Desolation Row'. Although I miss the speed of change and breadth of reference of that time, I don't miss the self-importance which probably proved the music's Achilles heel in the end - by 1975 the grandiosity was not being matched by musical development.

With jazz-rock/fusion you are getting two quite different things colliding. Jazz musicians like Miles, Ian Carr, Coryell etc becoming attracted to rock rhythms and features as a way of keeping their music developing; and rock musicians like Chicago, B, S & T etc, Cream etc picking up on aspects of jazz like long solos to give their music more gravitas. Though, again, that is more complex as some had feet in both camps. I'd still argue for the likes of Graham Bond and John Mayall as one of the key sources.

[Jazzjet]

I know that Al Kooper in The Blues Project was trying to find a way to mix jazz and rock. This would've been 65-66, iirc.I'm barely familiar with that band's output, but he went straight from there to forming BS&T in mid-1967. so it was in the air in several differnet places, but Coryell, Kooper, the BN stuff, that's all pretty much East Coast. Out West, I don't know. Don Ellis' 1st electric album was came out in 1968, and there was a whole sub-scene going on around him and that. But '66? Hmmmm...I don't know. But it was L.A., the studios, and all that. They certainly had access to the gear...

Back to the east, Chico & Coryell did The Dealer in 1966, but that's not a "jazz rock" album per se, even though Coryell don't sound like no Kenny Burrell if you know what I mean.

And don't forget Jerry Hahn who was doing a jazz-rock thing around 1966/67.

[7/4]

Progressive rock evolved from Psychedelic rock.

dB

[Jazzjet]

What was the explosion? Maybe the Kennedy assassination, maybe The Beatles, maybe it was just time for one way of life to blow up from all the pent-up pressure. That I do not know.

Kennedy might have been a trigger (sorry!) - the Profumo Scandal and the fall of the decayed Conservative government are often mooted as the triggers of the Swinging Sixties in the UK - but I'd say the causes are the same ones regularly touted for all the other social ferment of the period. In particular, a young generation with a higher level of education (and one spread across a wider social base) than any previously, money in their pockets, no war (in most cases) to go to and a general sense that a system based on authority and obedience had failed in the first half of the 20thC and had to be questioned. It's that willingness to question anything and look down alternative paths that marks the era. Throw in the technological innovations that made it so much easier to explore - cheap printing, TV, long playing records, cassettes, satellite connections that made news instant etc. And finally, a world watching the space race, especially the race to the moon - that really did give the feeling that human potential was limitless.

When did that optimism end? 1968 or Altamont the following year? I don't think so - it was still going when I really clicked in from 1969 onwards. I'd place it around 1973 with the Yom Kippur War and the oil crisis, a time that (in the UK at least) was even more frightening than the present financial crisis. Suddenly the limitless expansion of affluence was put into question, paving the way for the conservatism of the Thatcher/Reagan years.

Which is certainly why prog started to look so outmoded in the UK in the second half of the 70s. Long rock suites and spangly capes did not fit with the growing dole queues and the sense of political and social disintegration of those years.

************

On where prog started, I'd go with the Beatles too. A recent UK doc went for 'Whiter Shade of Pale'. I'm not sure when the term 'Progressive Rock' was first used but I recall reading about it c.1970 where it was very much a term to try to distinguish one sort of pop/rock (serious music played by skilled musicians) from another (bubblegum music played by paid-by-the-hour session musicians with pretty boy/girls up front). Of course the reality was much more mixed. But if anything distinguished Progressive rock it was a self-belief that what it was doing was not ephemeral and just might court consideration alongside more respectable musics like jazz or classical. In that sense you could trace it back to something like Dylan's 'Desolation Row'. Although I miss the speed of change and breadth of reference of that time, I don't miss the self-importance which probably proved the music's Achilles heel in the end - by 1975 the grandiosity was not being matched by musical development.

With jazz-rock/fusion you are getting two quite different things colliding. Jazz musicians like Miles, Ian Carr, Coryell etc becoming attracted to rock rhythms and features as a way of keeping their music developing; and rock musicians like Chicago, B, S & T etc, Cream etc picking up on aspects of jazz like long solos to give their music more gravitas. Though, again, that is more complex as some had feet in both camps. I'd still argue for the likes of Graham Bond and John Mayall as one of the key sources.

Nice analysis, Bev. There is a tendency, however, to ignore the regional differences when the 60s exploded in the UK. I read an interview with Andy Partridge ( XTC ) where he said that the 60s might have been in technicolour for a few dozen people in central London but it remained the 50s monochrome in Swindon.

[sidewinder]

but it remained the 50s monochrome in Swindon.

Where it remains to this day.

[sidewinder]

I'd place it around 1973 with the Yom Kippur War and the oil crisis, a time that (in the UK at least) was even more frightening than the present financial crisis. Suddenly the limitless expansion of affluence was put into question, paving the way for the conservatism of the Thatcher/Reagan years.

Which is certainly why prog started to look so outmoded in the UK in the second half of the 70s. Long rock suites and spangly capes did not fit with the growing dole queues and the sense of political and social disintegration of those years.

Definitely 1973. That was pretty shocking - the way that power was cut off to whole streets and everyone was reading with candles. Even as a youngster the seriousness of the situation was brought home to me that year - and into 1974. To be honest, it took from then to around 1983/84 before things really started seriously recovering from all of that -at least over much of the UK. After the eventual IMF bailout had been and gone. (sound familiar?)

And I would agree that the present circumstances, serious as they are - are not quite as bad as that particular time. And orange and brown paisley flock wallpaper is no longer 'in'.

Of course there was that fantastic period of British jazz - with much experimentation with rock and world music - starting in the early 60s and which was curtailed somewhat around 1972/73 with the 70s crisis kicking in. Shame I missed most of it at the time but thankfully the music survives.

Edited April 18, 2009 by sidewinder

[A Lark Ascending]

There is a tendency, however, to ignore the regional differences when the 60s exploded in the UK. I read an interview with Andy Partridge ( XTC ) where he said that the 60s might have been in technicolour for a few dozen people in central London but it remained the 50s monochrome in Swindon.

Yes, I've heard that from a number of sources. You certainly wouldn't have got the extremes of London in a Darlington Top Rank. Yet it's amazing how widely it spread.

In 1967 I was at a RAF grammar school in Changi, Singapore - the hip young 11 year old girls were painting peace and love posters in art class and worshipped Sergeant Pepper (I was still more interested in Airfix planes and minature soldiers!). It got there.

From 1968-72 I lived in Newquay, Cornwall and although I experienced little of the lifestyle of the 'Sixties' the full force of the musical changes were wide open to me. I don't think it was because Newquay had a slightly boho reputation (there's a great documentary from the early 60s of folky type pre-hippies hanging out there to the fury of local councillors!) because I never moved in those circles. That period was more 'On the Buses' and 'Dad's Army' than happenings for me!

Strangely enough I did live in Swindon in 72-73 - it actually seemed might sophisticated after Cornwall! I read a bio of XTC a few years back and Andy Partridge mentioned how he worked at the record counter of one of the big Dept stores there. He may well have served me!

[A Lark Ascending]

Definitely 1973. That was pretty shocking - the way that power was cut off to whole streets and everyone was reading with candles. Even as a youngster the seriousness of the situation was brought home to me that year - and into 1974. To be honest, it took from then to around 1983/84 before things really started seriously recovering from all of that -at least over much of the UK. After the eventual IMF bailout had been and gone. (sound familiar?)

I went to university in October 1973 - the hall I was in had full heating all day, cleaners in on a daily basis, sheets changed once a week. My how that all changed by the end of the first academic year!

I also recall my father commenting that, with the prospect of a Labour election victory (which materialised), if the Queen asked the military to step in and stop it he and everyone he worked with would have acted for her! The ramblings of a right-wing military policeman, but...

[JSngry]

When did that optimism end? 1968 or Altamont the following year? I don't think so - it was still going when I really clicked in from 1969 onwards. I'd place it around 1973 with the Yom Kippur War and the oil crisis, a time that (in the UK at least) was even more frightening than the present financial crisis. Suddenly the limitless expansion of affluence was put into question, paving the way for the conservatism of the Thatcher/Reagan years.

I think that over here it was the Iranian hostage crisis, which was when, 1979? That & the first "energy crisis" & the double digit interest rates that ensued. All of a sudden the ugly side of reality took center stage.

Before then there was still an overall optimsim, although there was no longer the sense of inevitability about it that first accompanied that initial rush of the 1960s. It was obvious that in order to holding on to good feelings was going to take a bit of a fight, and that soon became blatant self-indulgence. Talk about the "swinging sixties", hell overall there was probably more overall "wildness" in the 70s than ever happened in the 60s, just because now thre wasn't anywhere you could go where you didn't find some people practicing the "if it feels good, do it" philosophy.

But on the other side, there were a still a lot of optimistic things here. Especially racially. The 70s was when the old ways ended once and for all. Yeah, the revolution happend in the 50s & 60s, but the 70s was when the rubber hit the raod, so to spek, and we had to find out whether or not it was just a blip on the radar or the real deal. It ended up beoing the real deal, even if things never got as "color-blind" as hoped for (or needed), bu tthings had blown open to the point that to go back to a rigidly segregated society would prove to be impossible. And to get a real sense of that optimism, you could just listen to the black pop of the day - Stevie Wonder, EW&F, P-Funk, Rufus, lord, I could go on. This music was based on the assumption that it was a new day, and that as one of the later, more uplifting songs of the time said, "ain't no stoppin' us now". Inter-racial relations also took on this tone of optimism too, hardly unanimously, but far more widespread and opemnly than at any point in our nation's history, at least up to the election/inauguration of Obama. Race being such a key definer of American life (even today, although in a many regards in a much different, more nuanced way), this was a "big deal" culturally.

Which, I think, goes a long way towards explaining "what happened" to at least some of the offshoots of "fusion" as the 70s wore on, notably to more poppy/funky/"commercial variants thereof. This was yet another "new frontier" of optimism and "blending" and the music reflected that in how R&B + Jazz had a bit of a family reunion, and how somebody like Larry Carlton could play with both Joni Mitchell & The Crusaders with equal aplomb, how George Duke could likewise make commercial R&B records and play with Frank Zappa, how many jazz musicians could relate to Stevie Wonder tunes, how so many white guys ended up as regular members in so many black bands nationally, regionally & locally, etc etc etc.

I guess in the UK "class" would be the equivalent of "race" here? And I can't comment on that, nor can I claim full success for the American racial revolution. It was permanent but it is also incomplete. I'm just saying that a lot of conventional wisdom about fusion is that after its initial flash of brilliance that it devolved into either masturbational chopfests or bubbleheaded discodrivel, and although overall that is not a wholly misinformed notion, the reality, as it always is, is much more complex. a movement towards "pop" is often enough based in "populism" as it is in "commercialism", and in many cases, what was going on in American fusion as the 70s progressed, was indeed based on populist impulses, just as was some of the music of Woody Shaw & many other nowadays so-called "spiritual" jazz artists of the 70s, where the attempt was to bring "the movement" to "the people", meaning that we're gonna try to get to you whether than waiting for you to come to us.

It was far from a perfect time, but damn, it wa a grand time, a time when people still dreamed (even if those dreams now involved fighting to get over a hump instead of the hump just magically flattening out out of it's own sense of decency...). I sense there might be a coming back to that today, but it's still very embryonic, perhaps, so we'll see. Ther could certainly be worse things to have happen.

Edited April 18, 2009 by JSngry

[Jazzjet]

There is a tendency, however, to ignore the regional differences when the 60s exploded in the UK. I read an interview with Andy Partridge ( XTC ) where he said that the 60s might have been in technicolour for a few dozen people in central London but it remained the 50s monochrome in Swindon.

Strangely enough I did live in Swindon in 72-73 - it actually seemed might sophisticated after Cornwall! I read a bio of XTC a few years back and Andy Partridge mentioned how he worked at the record counter of one of the big Dept stores there. He may well have served me!

Anywhere would seem sophisticated after Cornwall, even more so back then! It was suggested that they should put a sign up at the county boundary saying ' You are now entering Cornwall - put your watches back 25 years'.

[A Lark Ascending]

There is a tendency, however, to ignore the regional differences when the 60s exploded in the UK. I read an interview with Andy Partridge ( XTC ) where he said that the 60s might have been in technicolour for a few dozen people in central London but it remained the 50s monochrome in Swindon.

Strangely enough I did live in Swindon in 72-73 - it actually seemed might sophisticated after Cornwall! I read a bio of XTC a few years back and Andy Partridge mentioned how he worked at the record counter of one of the big Dept stores there. He may well have served me!

Anywhere would seem sophisticated after Cornwall, even more so back then! It was suggested that they should put a sign up at the county boundary saying ' You are now entering Cornwall - put your watches back 25 years'.

Cornwall - the land that Starbucks (almost) forgot!

After spending the Easter weekend zooming between Truro, Sticker, St Ives, Porthcowan, Newquay and Padstow I have to say I'd move back there tomorrow, given the chance.

[JSngry]

One song that sticks in my head is "Latona" from John Patton's Let 'Em Roll album, the riff to that song sounds like something either The Allman Brothers or Santana would be playing a few years later.

Ah! A name that's not yet been mentioned is Gabor Szabo, a hero to Santana and many other aspiring not-necessarily-jazz guitartists of the time. And no wonder. His playing was similar to the rab & blues also infiltrating the popular ear at the time, but was not derived from it. A very unique player.

[Jazzjet]

There is a tendency, however, to ignore the regional differences when the 60s exploded in the UK. I read an interview with Andy Partridge ( XTC ) where he said that the 60s might have been in technicolour for a few dozen people in central London but it remained the 50s monochrome in Swindon.

Strangely enough I did live in Swindon in 72-73 - it actually seemed might sophisticated after Cornwall! I read a bio of XTC a few years back and Andy Partridge mentioned how he worked at the record counter of one of the big Dept stores there. He may well have served me!

Anywhere would seem sophisticated after Cornwall, even more so back then! It was suggested that they should put a sign up at the county boundary saying ' You are now entering Cornwall - put your watches back 25 years'.

Cornwall - the land that Starbucks (almost) forgot!

After spending the Easter weekend zooming between Truro, Sticker, St Ives, Porthcowan, Newquay and Padstow I have to say I'd move back there tomorrow, given the chance.

If you do, we could jointly set up a jazz / prog club! God knows we need one. ( I live about 2 miles from Porthtowan ).

[A Lark Ascending]

If you do, we could jointly set up a jazz / prog club! God knows we need one. ( I live about 2 miles from Porthtowan ).

Where would that be? A cousin of mine lives in Porthtowan, just as you go in off the Portreath to St Agnes Road. I spent last summer up at the campsite at Scorrier.

I did my teaching practice at Redruth School back in 1977, staying with an aunt who lived in Portreath. My father's family, although they ended up in Tregony, come from round there - Illogan, Portreath, Towan Cross.

Small world!

Edited April 18, 2009 by Bev Stapleton

[7/4]

Are we going to have a secret handshake and decoder rings?

[Guy Berger]

I wouldn't say UK "survived". They did one American tour when Bruford and Holdsworth were in the group. I don't know of any other American tours.

I'll defer to you there - I don't think I ever heard Asia or UK.

UK was a super group without a hit. Asia was a pop group providing employment for former progrockers without a band.

I've heard the first UK album - quite mediocre in my opinion. I've always been surprised to hear some people describe it as a classic.

Guy

[Hot Ptah]

When did that optimism end? 1968 or Altamont the following year? I don't think so - it was still going when I really clicked in from 1969 onwards. I'd place it around 1973 with the Yom Kippur War and the oil crisis, a time that (in the UK at least) was even more frightening than the present financial crisis. Suddenly the limitless expansion of affluence was put into question, paving the way for the conservatism of the Thatcher/Reagan years.

I think that over here it was the Iranian hostage crisis, which was when, 1979? That & the first "energy crisis" & the double digit interest rates that ensued. All of a sudden the ugly side of reality took center stage.

Before then there was still an overall optimsim, although there was no longer the sense of inevitability about it that first accompanied that initial rush of the 1960s. It was obvious that in order to holding on to good feelings was going to take a bit of a fight, and that soon became blatant self-indulgence. Talk about the "swinging sixties", hell overall there was probably more overall "wildness" in the 70s than ever happened in the 60s, just because now thre wasn't anywhere you could go where you didn't find some people practicing the "if it feels good, do it" philosophy.

But on the other side, there were a still a lot of optimistic things here. Especially racially. The 70s was when the old ways ended once and for all. Yeah, the revolution happend in the 50s & 60s, but the 70s was when the rubber hit the raod, so to spek, and we had to find out whether or not it was just a blip on the radar or the real deal. It ended up beoing the real deal, even if things never got as "color-blind" as hoped for (or needed), bu tthings had blown open to the point that to go back to a rigidly segregated society would prove to be impossible. And to get a real sense of that optimism, you could just listen to the black pop of the day - Stevie Wonder, EW&F, P-Funk, Rufus, lord, I could go on. This music was based on the assumption that it was a new day, and that as one of the later, more uplifting songs of the time said, "ain't no stoppin' us now". Inter-racial relations also took on this tone of optimism too, hardly unanimously, but far more widespread and opemnly than at any point in our nation's history, at least up to the election/inauguration of Obama. Race being such a key definer of American life (even today, although in a many regards in a much different, more nuanced way), this was a "big deal" culturally.

Which, I think, goes a long way towards explaining "what happened" to at least some of the offshoots of "fusion" as the 70s wore on, notably to more poppy/funky/"commercial variants thereof. This was yet another "new frontier" of optimism and "blending" and the music reflected that in how R&B + Jazz had a bit of a family reunion, and how somebody like Larry Carlton could play with both Joni Mitchell & The Crusaders with equal aplomb, how George Duke could likewise make commercial R&B records and play with Frank Zappa, how many jazz musicians could relate to Stevie Wonder tunes, how so many white guys ended up as regular members in so many black bands nationally, regionally & locally, etc etc etc.

I guess in the UK "class" would be the equivalent of "race" here? And I can't comment on that, nor can I claim full success for the American racial revolution. It was permanent but it is also incomplete. I'm just saying that a lot of conventional wisdom about fusion is that after its initial flash of brilliance that it devolved into either masturbational chopfests or bubbleheaded discodrivel, and although overall that is not a wholly misinformed notion, the reality, as it always is, is much more complex. a movement towards "pop" is often enough based in "populism" as it is in "commercialism", and in many cases, what was going on in American fusion as the 70s progressed, was indeed based on populist impulses, just as was some of the music of Woody Shaw & many other nowadays so-called "spiritual" jazz artists of the 70s, where the attempt was to bring "the movement" to "the people", meaning that we're gonna try to get to you whether than waiting for you to come to us.

It was far from a perfect time, but damn, it wa a grand time, a time when people still dreamed (even if those dreams now involved fighting to get over a hump instead of the hump just magically flattening out out of it's own sense of decency...). I sense there might be a coming back to that today, but it's still very embryonic, perhaps, so we'll see. Ther could certainly be worse things to have happen.

Great post. One small anecdote of what Jim is talking about. I remember a bunch of us decided to watch the late 1960s counterculture film classic, "Easy Rider", when it was shown in a small theater near campus in 1975. We all remarked afterwards how it had significantly lost its impact because we were all living far more of the lifestyle every week (and especially weekend) than the hippies in the film.

[Jazzjet]

If you do, we could jointly set up a jazz / prog club! God knows we need one. ( I live about 2 miles from Porthtowan ).

Where would that be? A cousin of mine lives in Porthtowan, just as you go in off the Portreath to St Agnes Road. I spent last summer up at the campsite at Scorrier.

I did my teaching practice at Redruth School back in 1977, staying with an aunt who lived in Portreath. My father's family, although they ended up in Tregony, come from round there - Illogan, Portreath, Towan Cross.

Small world!

Small world indeed. I live just up the hill from Porthtowan - the quaintly named Skinners Bottom, near Mount Hawke.

[7/4]

I wouldn't say UK "survived". They did one American tour when Bruford and Holdsworth were in the group. I don't know of any other American tours.

I'll defer to you there - I don't think I ever heard Asia or UK.

UK was a super group without a hit. Asia was a pop group providing employment for former progrockers without a band.

I've heard the first UK album - quite mediocre in my opinion. I've always been surprised to hear some people describe it as a classic.

Guy

It is.

I was digging my Bruford albums waiting for him to do something new after Crimson and his first solo album showed up in the store at the same time as the UK album. Both of these albums sounded new and fresh - prog was pretty much over by '78.

I think he was in Genesis for a short period of time, but recordings didn't show up until a few years later.

edit: my bad - Genesis - Seconds Out, a live recording with Bruford on came out in '77, but I didn't really notice it at the time. It's interesting that he played with them, but he wasn't a member of the group.

Plus, polyphonic synths were still pretty new at the time. Not every keyboard player had one.

Edited April 19, 2009 by 7/4

[A Lark Ascending]

Small world indeed. I live just up the hill from Porthtowan - the quaintly named Skinners Bottom, near Mount Hawke.

I know of Mount Hawke, though not Skinners Bottom - looked it up on the OS map - though I've passed by Blackwater I don't think I've been to your metropolis.

Apologies for disruption of thread. Back to polyphonic synths (may they all rot in hell!).

[7/4]

Back to polyphonic synths (may they all rot in hell!).

Even if they're analog???

.