Joe Maneri, RIP

[clifford_thornton]

Trane.

Guess he was 40, but...

Edited August 28, 2009 by clifford_thornton

[ep1str0phy]

That's what I thought...

Another random "what if" moment, but it would have been cool to have seen Trane operate more explicitly in/with non-Western tuning systems and metrical organization, if Maneri could have had something to do with that. I guess the way that Trane grappled with the latter, at least, was with his extensive use of uneven subdivisions in his phrasing, the improvised superimposition of meters with Elvin (or "time feel" in general with Rasheid)... I would imagine though, that after where the story ended, the next step would be to get "bigger" (orchestral) and/or reorganize (alternative instrumentation, new types of song/improv structure, etc).

Also interesting to imagine Maneri sitting in/getting to know the late Coltrane, who for a period seemed to be the saint of black cultural nationalism in the jazz community; it would totally complicate the historiography of Trane's part of the revolution as a "black thing."

[Steve Reynolds]

He told me John Coltrane called him.....

He also told me he thought his music would bbe HUGE!!!

[Joe Bip]

One thing I've had a hard time figuring out is how Maneri's 72-tone system works on a practical level. I know there are fingerings for quarter-tones etc. but with 72 notes in an octave, it seems like a virtually impossible level of precision. One could use an electronic tuning device to tune the instruments in a group together, but then actually playing the instruments still amazes me. I'm not sure how this many microtones can be produced on reeds. Even on Mat's violin/viola where there is an infinite gradations of pitch, it seems like he would have to have superhuman ears (and hand-ear coordination) particularly while playing in a group with other instruments. Again, I definitely understand to some degree how microtonal playing is possible on acoustic instruments that require tuning, but with a 72-tone system I'm just baffled. Spent quite a bit of time online the last couple of days trying to research this but to no avail.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Joe Bip

[7/4]

One thing I've had a hard time figuring out is how Maneri's 72-tone system works on a practical level. I know there are fingerings for quarter-tones etc. but with 72 notes in an octave, it seems like a virtually impossible level of precision. One could use an electronic tuning device to tune the instruments in a group together, but then actually playing the instruments still amazes me. I'm not sure how this many microtones can be produced on reeds. Even on Mat's violin/viola where there is an infinite gradations of pitch, it seems like he would have to have superhuman ears (and hand-ear coordination) particularly while playing in a group with other instruments. Again, I definitely understand to some degree how microtonal playing is possible on acoustic instruments that require tuning, but with a 72-tone system I'm just baffled. Spent quite a bit of time online the last couple of days trying to research this but to no avail.

You don't play all 72 notes in each scale for a start.

1200 cents in an octave.

1200 / 72 = 16.666666

16.666666 * 3 = 49.999999 cents -> 1/4 quarter tones.

16.666666 * 2 = 33.333332 ----> 1/6th tones.

That brings 72tet near Just Intonation intervals.

I don't know enough about woodwinds to comment on how to get microtones out of them.

[Joe Bip]

You don't play all 72 notes in each scale for a start.

I meant to say 72 steps in an octave rather than "72 notes."

[7/4]

You don't play all 72 notes in each scale for a start.

I meant to say 72 steps in an octave rather than "72 notes."

OK.

...

[7/4]

NY Times obit

As a composer and musical theorist, Mr. Maneri pursued an interest in microtonalism, music that uses intervals smaller than the semitone, the smallest by Western music standards. He helped devise a microtonal keyboard with 788 notes — 72 within each octave. In 1985, with Scott Van Duyne, he wrote the book “Preliminary Studies in the Virtual Pitch Continuum,” an introduction to microtonal theory.

[7/4]

I'm enjoying these two this afternoon.

The microtonal aspect is pretty transparent to me. It just sounds like crazy jazz man!

Edited September 6, 2009 by 7/4

[Joe Bip]

Just received Get Ready to Receive Yourself in the mail and, as the disc is a little scarce, I thought some might be interested in a couple of quotes from the liners, which are also an appropriate tribute now.

"Joseph Maneri is a genius whose aesthetics have been the source of influence for a considerable number of musicians who have received the recognition which Joe has not enjoyed. I hope that this recording is only one of many for this original American voice. He is an artist without peer." --George Russell

"Observed as a teacher, I found Joe Maneri to be delicate and yet probing. As a creator, he organised a language which is his own, indicating courage and the light of truth." --Cecil Taylor

[king ubu]

The final concerts with Joe (by Mat's Pentagon) can be found here:

http://www.bengerstein.com/other.html

(I hope posting this link is ok - the site hosting the files is by the band's trombone player Ben Gerstein!)