Edgar Hayes - Blues at Dawn

[jeffcrom]

Just spun a 78 - Exclusive 110: "Blues at Dawn," parts 1 & 2 by Edgar Hayes and His Stardusters. It's a nice, hot medium-slow R & B-flavored blues, recorded around 1949 in LA. Lord's discography gives the personnel as:

Edgar Hayes (p) Teddy Bunn (g) Curtis Counce (b) Bryant Allen (d)

but there's a strong tenor saxist on both sides. Does anybody know who it is?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just spun a 78 - Exclusive 110: "Blues at Dawn," parts 1 & 2 by Edgar Hayes and His Stardusters. It's a nice, hot medium-slow R & B-flavored blues, recorded around 1949 in LA. Lord's discography gives the personnel as:

Edgar Hayes (p) Teddy Bunn (g) Curtis Counce (b) Bryant Allen (d)

but there's a strong tenor saxist on both sides. Does anybody know who it is?

If it's in BFT71, we'll have a shot at it, Jeff

Perhaps it was Little Willie Jackson, moonlighting from the Joe Liggins band (he played tenor as well as baritone). But you could pick Harold Land, from Jimmy Liggins' band, Fats Theus, from Preston Love's or Oscar McLollie's band or quite a few tenor players from Roy Milton's band. Few of those people would sound like they sounded a bit later.

MG

[carnivore]

Maxwell Davis?

[jeffcrom]

I thought of Maxwell Davis - that's a reasonable guess. I was hoping that someone had the Chronological Classics Edgar Hayes disc, and that it had more information.

[jazztrain]

Several online reviews of the Classics CD (which seem to point back to AMG) suggests that the horn players on that date are unknown:

>>>

Leading an intimate rhythm section billed as Edgar Hayes & His Stardusters, the pianist cut a version of "Stardust" for V-Disc in May of 1946 with a vocal by drummer Bryant Allen. The rest of the story took place in Los Angeles, where in 1948 Hayes laid down eight superb tracks with Allen, amplified guitarist Teddy Bunn, and legendary West Coast bassist Curtis Counce. Just as "In the Mood" had an enormous impact on popular music before and during the Second World War, "Fat Meat 'n Greens" would prove to be resoundingly influential throughout the 1950s. "Edgar's Boogie" and five additional groove tunes form a very hip finale to the Edgar Hayes story, with a strong shot of R&B and several unidentified horn players adding their sauce to the mix.

>>>

[JSngry]

I'd not bet against Jack McVea.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'd not bet against Jack McVea.

If you've heard the record, I wouldn't bet against your judgement. If you haven't, this is '48 and Jack was still riding high on "Open the door, Richard" with his own combo, The Door-Openers. I'd doubt if he'd be doing uncredited sessions at that time.

....

Though, of course, he would have been contracted to Black & White, so

....

But I still doubt it.

MG

[JSngry]

Hear the tenor player here: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:kcfexcykld6e

McVea is just a guess, and not a really certain one at that.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hear the tenor player here: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:kcfexcykld6e

McVea is just a guess, and not a really certain one at that.

Thanks for the link, Jim. Damn good band. Well, any band with Teddy Bunn is going to be damn good.

Not sure about McVea - this guy is too throaty, I think. He has something of the sound that Roy Milton's tenor players got but they're a lot smoother than this geezer. And seems to me he's a lot closer to jazz than they are. Not Maxwell, either - he's too smooth. This guy has something of a modern approach that instantly made me think of Harold Vick - not that he's him, of course, but he's got that sideways thing like Vick but coupled with a looser version of the Earl Bostic sound transferred to tenor.

Now, who do we know who might have played like that and was around on Central Avenue in '48?

Clifford Solomon?

MG

[carnivore]

Before the guy gets to growling the combination of tone and vibrato, and the nature of the vibrato is...pure Hawk! The growl and some of the later phrases are uncharacteristic though.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Ah, I think I may have him. Eddie Taylor. He joined Roy Milton's band a couple of years after this recording. If you have my BFT from June/July of last year, I included a Roy Milton track featuring a very throaty solo from Taylor, done in 1952; "Night and day (I miss you so)". See what you think.

Sure Jeff will have the CD it came from - the first Milton Specialty compilation.

MG

[jeffcrom]

Thanks to all, and thanks especially to JSngry for posting a link to the clip. MG, I don't have the Roy Milton CD, but I have a handful of his 78s (Does that make me cooler or more pathetic?), including some that Eddie Taylor plays on. I'll spin them and see if it sounds like the same guy.

[Chuck Nessa]

Brother Woodman?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Brother Woodman?

Never heard of him - but you're another whose knowledge and judgement I'd trust.

MG

[jeffcrom]

Ah, I think I may have him. Eddie Taylor. He joined Roy Milton's band a couple of years after this recording. If you have my BFT from June/July of last year, I included a Roy Milton track featuring a very throaty solo from Taylor, done in 1952; "Night and day (I miss you so)". See what you think.

Sure Jeff will have the CD it came from - the first Milton Specialty compilation.

MG

I wanted to follow up on this, since folks were so nice to put in some time and effort on this. I compared "Blues at Dawn" to two other 78s I have on which Eddie Taylor is the tenor soloist: "S.K. Blues" by Sauders King on Rhythm and "Christmas Time Blues/Oh Babe!" by Roy Milton on Specialty. All I can say is that it might very well be the same player. Personally, I think MG is probably right, although it may not be possible to know for sure.

I'm intrigued by Chuck's mention of Brother William Woodman, whom I've never heard. It looks like he recorded a lot with Joe Liggins around 1951-53. I'll keep my eye out for some of those recordings.

Thanks again to all for your input.

Edited January 14, 2010 by jeffcrom

[Chuck Nessa]

Brother Woodman?

Never heard of him - but you're another whose knowledge and judgement I'd trust.

MG

Sorry to be so late responding. I was speaking of William "Brother" Woodman, brother of Britt.

[Big Beat Steve]

@Jeffcrom and MG:

If you want to get the lowdown on Brother Woodman, read "Central Avenue Sounds" (collated by Clora Bryant et al.). Among its oral histories of early post-war Westcoast jazz, it has a HUGE chapter containing his reminiscences (and those of the other two musicianly Woodmans too). No mention of any involvement with Edgar Hayes, though.