new Charlie Christian on Uptown

[jazztrain]

Not sure if this is what he had in mind, but there's this:

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chuck•y

Pronunciation: (chuk'ē), [key]

—n.,

—pl. chuck•ies. Brit. Dial.

a chicken; fowl.

Read more: chucky: meaning and definitions — Infoplease.com http://dictionary.infoplease.com/chucky#ixzz1VJ9VOIm8

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I'm still interested in what "chuckies" are! Followers of Chuck? Count me in!

gregmo

[AllenLowe]

the Lownstein thing is because I spelled his name wrong - gave it an extra "N" - I don't think it's an ethnic slur, however, he's not the sharpest guy; by repeating it constantly in some succeeding emails (he and I have been going back and forth; he just called me a "failed tenor player") it starts to take on the character of an epithet; I'm trying to respond with some restraint, but I'm not used to this; I usually like to remain BELOW the fray.

Edited August 17, 2011 by AllenLowe

[Fer Urbina]

* Fer Urbina's

the sound on the Charlie Christian CD is remarkable

FWIW, while I listened attentively, headphones on etc, to the Minneapolis tracks (and I compared them to the Masters of Jazz version), I didn't do the same with the Goodman recordings. Should go back and check, I guess.

F

[papsrus]

the Lownstein thing is because I spelled his name wrong - gave it an extra "N" - I don't think it's an ethnic slur, however, he's not the sharpest guy; by repeating it constantly in some succeeding emails (he and I have been going back and forth; he just called me a "failed tenor player") it starts to take on the character of an epithet; I'm trying to respond with some restraint, but I'm not used to this; I usually like to remain BELOW the fray.

Sounds like this guy got up on the wrong side of the bed, in a big way. Either that, or he's seriously threatened by your evaluation.

Maybe a little bit of both.

[jeffcrom]

For what it's worth, the sound of the Goodman tracks didn't bother me on first hearing. Listening again, and comparing tracks I have on other issues, I hear what Allen is talking about, but the sound certainly doesn't strike me as unlistenable.

That being said, after reading Sunenblick's email, I'm certainly not inclined to explore the Uptown catalog more than I already have. There were several items I was on the fence about - I've now been pushed over to the side of "no sale." I mean, jeez, I don't like to be criticized either, but I believe that I would have bitched to my wife over dinner about Allen, not sent off such a nasty diatribe and then allowed it to be published.

And Allen, you're showing remarkable restraint in your interpretation of the Lownstein bit. It certainly seemed intended as an ethnic slur to me.

[AllenLowe]

possibly.....but I think he's so pissed off at this that he's not seeing straight -

the Goodman tracks just have this weird bloat, for lack of a better word - the problem is that, unless you hear them alternately, you probably won't know what's been lost, though I think it's significant.

As for the Uptown catalog - I wouldn't write it off. He's done some great stuff; I like his Dupree Bolton; also the Dodo Marmarosa; Allen Eager; there's other very good stuff,

I know he's sitting on some incredible early and unreleased Jaki Byard (from the 1950s); also some James P. Johnson which he told me about years ago; though I worry, now, what it will sound like, as once you digitally chop this stuff, there's no real restoration possible. Still, I would love to hear the Jaki stuff, especially as I anticipate finishing my '50s jazz book in the next year. I don't suppose he'll send me a sampler......

it's not good that he went off the deep end, but I understand how proprietary one can feel about these things; interestingly, he didn't say a word about Driggs' notes, which are bizarrely bad....

[Hot Ptah]

For what it's worth, the sound of the Goodman tracks didn't bother me on first hearing. Listening again, and comparing tracks I have on other issues, I hear what Allen is talking about, but the sound certainly doesn't strike me as unlistenable.

That being said, after reading Sunenblick's email, I'm certainly not inclined to explore the Uptown catalog more than I already have. There were several items I was on the fence about - I've now been pushed over to the side of "no sale." I mean, jeez, I don't like to be criticized either, but I believe that I would have bitched to my wife over dinner about Allen, not sent off such a nasty diatribe and then allowed it to be published.

And Allen, you're showing remarkable restraint in your interpretation of the Lownstein bit. It certainly seemed intended as an ethnic slur to me.

The addition of the "stein" to Allen's name reminds me of the scene in the Blues Brothers movie when the country western bar owner calls John Belushi's character "Stein" in an insulting way, which is meant to be an ethnic slur.

[AllenLowe]

just want to add something that I have to say, though it will piss off Sunnnnenblick again; I spent the last 30 minutes listening back through my reference speakers, just to make sure I hadn't done an injustice- now, to me, the Christian sounds even worse - it has that weird near-distortion you get when you chop off the high end digitally and then try to restore it through equalization by boosting the upper frequencies - it sounds as though someone has stretched the treble, it crackles a little, because there's little left to boost, and though it's listenable (though not to me, really) I can tell that, carefully handled, it could have sounded 10 times better -

for a sense of what I mean about the Goodman material, listen to Flying Home in particular; it's got that weird under-water thing going.

this stuff is really, unfortunately, botched.

[Bright Moments]

i liked the Charlie Christian!

[Teasing the Korean]

I won't buy anything from this label.

[Christiern]

I won't buy anything from this label.

That will be your loss. Much care has gone into previous releases—they are exemplary.

[John Tapscott]

I won't buy anything from this label.

That will be your loss. Much care has gone into previous releases—they are exemplary.

Agreed. It's a very fine label. I have a number of their releases, both historical and more recently recorded sessions. Some of the booklets are so thick that you fight to get them in and out of the jewel cases.

[Teasing the Korean]

I won't buy anything from this label.

That will be your loss. Much care has gone into previous releases—they are exemplary.

Agreed. It's a very fine label. I have a number of their releases, both historical and more recently recorded sessions. Some of the booklets are so thick that you fight to get them in and out of the jewel cases.

Did I misunderstand, or did someone from the label insult one of its customers (Allen Lowe) because he posted a legitimate complaint about the product?

[AllenLowe]

is true - but I agree with Chris - they do good work; their have long been problems related to the owner of the label, but it's a labor of love, I'm sure he's not making any money, and these musicians deserve to be remembered and listened to - though I appreciate the solidarity.

let me add that, as we see here, reasonable people disagree with me about the sound quality, Short of inviting you all over to my studio and doing some A-B comparisons, we will have to live with that -

also - think about all the recordings we buy of music and musicians for which other record labels have done much worse things than insult me.

Edited August 18, 2011 by AllenLowe

[John Tapscott]

I won't buy anything from this label.

That will be your loss. Much care has gone into previous releasesthey are exemplary.

Agreed. It's a very fine label. I have a number of their releases, both historical and more recently recorded sessions. Some of the booklets are so thick that you fight to get them in and out of the jewel cases.

Did I misunderstand, or did someone from the label insult one of its customers (Allen Lowe) because he posted a legitimate complaint about the product?

No, you didn't misunderstand. What Sunenblick said to Allen was over the top and unnecessary. I'm not defending it. However, his releases are most often musically excellent and very historically significant (Gillespie/Parker at Town Hall, for one.) A couple of times when I ordered several CD's from Uptown at a time, Sunenblick

surprised me by slipping in an extra CD unordered and unpaid for by me. That's how I got the excellent Chet Baker Boston 1954 CD, a real gem that I wouldn't have ordered on my own. People are complicated to say the least. No one is one dimensional.

Eagerly awaiting my Christian/Gryce/Richards order.

Edited August 18, 2011 by John Tapscott

[Quasimado]

I would have thought most people who bought this did so because of the '39 jam session. The sound and quality of the music is excellent. The remainder I have (mostly) and the sound did not bother me.

Allen got this whole deal off to a bad start by bad mouthing before he had listened to it ...

Q

[AllenLowe]

think of it this way - if this was Moe Levy I'd insulted I'd have to hire a body guard and have someone start my car for me -

[Teasing the Korean]

No one is one dimensional.

You're right, but with all the available music competing for my limited dollars, I am less likely to buy good music from someone so dismissive of his customer base. And I'm guessing you meant two-dimensional, e.g. flat, lacking depth. I don't know what one-dimensional means.

[John Tapscott]

No one is one dimensional.

You're right, but with all the available music competing for my limited dollars, I am less likely to buy good music from someone so dismissive of his customer base. And I'm guessing you meant two-dimensional, e.g. flat, lacking depth. I don't know what one-dimensional means.

What I meant was that there's more to Sunenblick than represented by this quote. I have done lots of foolish things, (worse than this) and hope I wouldn't be judged by others on the basis of those things alone. And I'm not sure he's dismissive of his whole customer base - one, yes, and publicly, and it doesn't look too good. But my limited interaction with him has been very positive.

Edited August 18, 2011 by John Tapscott

[Quincy]

What I meant was that there's more to Sunenblick than represented by this quote. I have done lots of foolish things, (worse than this) and hope I wouldn't be judged by others on the basis of those things alone. And I'm not sure he's dismissive of his whole customer base - one, yes, and publicly, and it doesn't look too good. But my limited interaction with him has been very positive.

And not really publicly either as it was an email to Allen that ended up being revealed here. But it is very good of Allen to point out the fine releases by the label despite the exchange he's having with with Sunenblick.

Uptown has put out some valuable & highly enjoyable releases. Any fan of The Beatles doing "Smack My Bitch Up" at the very least needs to own the Gillespie-Parker Town Hall.

[Big Beat Steve]

I find this kind of e-mail rather irritating and the light it sheds on its originator really is odd.

Really sorry to say this, especially since - after having bought the Serge Chaloff, Allen Eager, Charles Mingus and Bird & Diz at Town Hall Uptowns and being VERY satisfied with their musical and booklet content - Uptown really did look like one of the more thoughtfully done labels that really tries to fill gaps in collectors' record shelves instead of rehashing previously done reissues with a minimum of new material and living off the (often rather subjective) "improved sound quality" argument.

I'd been looking forward to the Charlie Christian CD but after having read the info on this board it seems I'd be buying it mostly for those few jam session tracks that start off the CD as most of the Goodman stuff has been around indeed (and I probably have a fair bit of that on previous reissues). And if Frank Driggs' liner notes really are that much off the mark (anybody care to confirm or refute Allen's assessment of those liner notes?)...

In short, my enthusiasm for this particular item has waned a bit. Too bad (my loss, maybe, I know, but still ...)

Getting back to that mail: I haven't come across any of this in small collectors' record label "customer service policies" yet but in a way it DOES sound familiar, unfortunately:

I've witnessed several cases of small businesses catering to niche markets and selling to customers largely perceived to be "collectors" or "enthusiasts" where complaints about product quality that was perceived by the customers to be substandard (and may have been even less of a case of personal preferences there as it related to goods not fit for their intended purpose of use, not giving the expected service life, etc.) had been voiced publicly on forums such as this. Not in threads started specifically to downgrade the items but just in the course of exchanges between forumists when the topic of users' experiences with this or that item came up and where pros and cons obviously went to and fro.

Dissatisfaction with the goods (even if the causes for dissatisfaction were provable) was invariably countered by the sellers of those goods by berating the complainants, in a tone not too dissimilar, the gist of which often seemed to be "Hey, we are doing you FAVOR by supplying you with these items, whatever we put out is top notch because the items are being put out for this NICHE market and if you are dissatisfied then you just are not qualified to use them" (or indeed even by attempting to sue them for slander etc.).

Really seems like niche producers of niche items for niche markets where the sellers perceive themselves as being "enthusiasts selling to fellow enthusiasts" are particularly touchy when it comes to handling complaints about their products' features, even if shortcomings could be proven.

Too bad ... but what can you do as a customer ...?

[Teasing the Korean]

Too bad ... but what can you do as a customer ...?

You can buy used copies over the internet, for starters.

[AllenLowe]

Thinking about it further, and having had some private messages, there is a pattern of the way this label treats living people who work for it that would incline me toward seeking out used copies, if any.