alocispepraluger102 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) ...........seeming endless streams of ideas, often at breakneck speed. to me, braxton is the quickest; bird vs. braxton--i don't even want to think about that. prez and threadgill are in there somewhere. Edited October 1, 2012 by alocispepraluger102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 ...........seeming endless streams of ideas, often at breakneck speed. to me, braxton is the quickest; bird vs. braxton--i don't even want to think about that. prez and threadgill are in there somewhere. George Benson and Ronnie Cuber in that ridiculously hyperactive band with Lonnie Smith? Although I suppose the music is driven more by energy and fast chops than by nimble 'ideas' based improv? It's an interesting distinction though. Coltrane? But then people say even Coltrane is relying more on the Harmonic concept and the patterns and scales that go with it, rather than 'pure' melodic invention. I love hearing Braxton play at fast tempos, also on standards and modal stuff. That 10foot saxaphone slows him down though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) ...........seeming endless streams of ideas, often at breakneck speed. to me, braxton is the quickest; bird vs. braxton--i don't even want to think about that. prez and threadgill are in there somewhere. George Benson and Ronnie Cuber in that ridiculously hyperactive band with Lonnie Smith? Although I suppose the music is driven more by energy and fast chops than by nimble 'ideas' based improv? It's an interesting distinction though. Coltrane? But then people say even Coltrane is relying more on the Harmonic concept and the patterns and scales that go with it, rather than 'pure' melodic invention. I love hearing Braxton play at fast tempos, also on standards and modal stuff. That 10foot saxaphone slows him down though that hard bop stuff brax was playing in the early 80s was scary fast and hard, and the ideas even faster..........i agree with the trane thoughts. presumably, pianists would be fastest............ Edited October 1, 2012 by alocispepraluger102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Don't forget Sonny Rollins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Don't forget Sonny Rollins! Ding. I think we have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Johnny Griffin...and quick-witted too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Johnny Griffin...and quick-witted too! YOU'VE GOT A POINT THERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Don't forget Sonny Rollins! Ding. I think we have a winner. Actually you might be right in terms of the amount of construction and invention in his longer solos. The Vanguard stuff (the LP selection of tracks, I mean) is a benchmark. A lot of his records don't really show what he can do though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Pee Wee Russell. (Okay, maybe I'm kidding.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Don't forget Sonny Rollins! Ding. I think we have a winner. Actually you might be right in terms of the amount of construction and invention in his longer solos. The Vanguard stuff (the LP selection of tracks, I mean) is a benchmark. A lot of his records don't really show what he can do though. Yes. Admittedly, most of my understanding of the inexhaustible invention of Rollins is anecdotally validated by the opinion of others. Usually from his live performances. I haven't listened to nearly as much Rollins as I have Coltrane. Indeed the 'legend' of Rollins seems based on these very qualities in performance. I never really think of him as a speedy player though, the way I do Griffin. Even if there's probably a ton of recorded evidence that he is if he wants to be. Tal Farlow is another one notorious for his tempo's, but I don't consider him a master of melodic invention so much, same way early Benson wasn't. Who are the Piano players that embody these qualities? I suppose Oscar Peterson is yet another that falls into the fast but generic category as well? Edited October 3, 2012 by freelancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILLYQ Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Don't forget Sonny Rollins! Ding. I think we have a winner. Actually you might be right in terms of the amount of construction and invention in his longer solos. The Vanguard stuff (the LP selection of tracks, I mean) is a benchmark. A lot of his records don't really show what he can do though. That's the conundrum of Sonny Rollins- his recordings, for the most part, don't do him justice. When I was listening to jazz as a 17 year old in 1972, I had the good fortune to see him a number of times at the Village Vanguard and I was utterly blown away by how he could play a long solo that was packed with ideas and could suddenly shift into something else.Of course in the middle of one of these amazing solos he'd quote a standard or a hoary pop tune. It was genius at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Does playing quickly necessarily correlate with quickness of mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Don't forget Sonny Rollins! Ding. I think we have a winner. Actually you might be right in terms of the amount of construction and invention in his longer solos. The Vanguard stuff (the LP selection of tracks, I mean) is a benchmark. A lot of his records don't really show what he can do though. Yes. Admittedly, most of my understanding of the inexhaustible invention of Rollins is anecdotally validated by the opinion of others. Usually from his live performances. I haven't listened to nearly as much Rollins as I have Coltrane. Indeed the 'legend' of Rollins seems based on these very qualities in performance. I never really think of him as a speedy player though, the way I do Griffin. Even if there's probably a ton of recorded evidence that he is if he wants to be. Tal Farlow is another one notorious for his tempo's, but I don't consider him a master of melodic invention so much, same way early Benson wasn't. Who are the Piano players that embody these qualities? I suppose Oscar Peterson is yet another that falls into the fast but generic category as well? i agree--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I'm going throw out a name that people don't think too much about, but Thad Jones has always struck me of having a very musical mind. Granted there are no breakneck speed solos going on, but there is always such a graceful, musical feel to what he plays, and I find him very creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Quickest musical minds makes me think of the responsiveness of the best drummers. Philly Joe Jones and Mel Lewis are the first to come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Joe Cohn. He'll play your stuff right back to you, including piano voicings on guitar. He can get anything instantly and run with it. Plus he's endlessly creative as an improvisor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValerieB Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 i'm voting for pianists Benny Green and Eric Reed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 The first name I thought of when I saw this thread was Art Tatum. The speed of his execution had to do with harmony, rather than melody. The chordal variations came faster than this musician can readily grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Does playing quickly necessarily correlate with quickness of mind? That's the key distinction - how much work is the mind doing, not the fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Last time I checked, the mind controls the fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Rollins has an intricate, brilliant musical mind - not necessarily quickest. I find him very deliberative. Django, by a mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Last time I checked, the mind controls the fingers. But one can have a quick mind and not transpose that to using fingers quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 It is a question of musical ideas, not of doing things quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I'm going throw out a name that people don't think too much about, but Thad Jones has always struck me of having a very musical mind. Good call. Thad Jones as a player was often quite startling. If we're talking about simply a quick mind, one that responds to the moment without hesitation and seemingly being able to play the future as if it had already happened, I submit Plugged Nickle-era Wayne shorter & peak-from Warne Marsh. And actually, Herbie Hancock from time to time, especially as accompanist. Hell, that whole Miles Second & Lost Quintets arc. The live recordings, especially of the Lsot Quintet show an incredible amount of "in/of the moment" inspiration that's expressed w/o hinderance (or so it sounds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Rollins has an intricate, brilliant musical mind - not necessarily quickest. I find him very deliberative. Django, by a mile. Django! Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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