BFT 133 Discussion - Disc 1 (Tracks 1-10)

[page]

Hi Dan, here are my thoughts and answers so far:

01. nice theme, no clue who.

02. Feels like spring, frolic and brisky melody. Live recording, maybe Jim Hall?

03. seems like different songs put together, nog really my thing although I do like the beginning.

04. song: "Jumpin’ at the Woodside" – composer Count Basie
The big band I was in used this as their ‘home coming’ tune.

05. really wonderful slow blues. I love it!

06. jive, nice song. It’s been a long time since I’ve danced jive, but I still know the moves.

07. nice song, oh yeah! Love this one. Again, I’m happily dancing in my living room.

08. song: "Real Pretty Mama" – Redd Foxx composer : Dootsie Williams, H.C. Jones – Dooto Reocrds, vinyl, 45 RPM Single Us (B-side of "The Crazy House") May, 1957
Dootone Record Corporation . Los Angeles California
also appeared on: "Laff of the Party Volume 8". LP 1959
and on:
"The Last Shout! - Twilight Of The Blues Shouters 1954-1962" (2014 – LP – LP UK label Fantastic Voyage)

09. Little George Benson - song: "It should have been me #2" - composer Memphis (king) Curtis –
Originally released as Groove Records 0024 single in 1954.
also appeared on:
“Rare 78 RPM Rhythm & Blues Cuts by George Benson”
and on: “Groove Story: R&B from the Radio Corporation, Vol. 2”

10. song: "Sister Sadie" – composer: Horace Silver
I’m sure I’ve heard this rendition before, but I can’t seem to find where.

I still have to get started on the other 11 songs, not sure I’ll make it in time for the end of the month. Sorry for being so late.
I love the blues and I am really enjoying your BFT. That’s for sure!
Kind regards, page

Edited April 25, 2015 by page

[Dan Gould]

Wow Page either you've got access to some pretty good discographies or you really know your obscure 50s R&B.

And there's a release titled Rare 78 RPM Rhythm & Blues Cuts by George Benson? Color me completely shocked. Then again until a couple of months ago I didn't even know that this record existed.

I am so glad that you are enjoying the music so much and just as an FYI, there's no rule against posting in the previous month's discussion thread after the 'reveal' has been posted. Well, as long as you don't use the reveal as your cheat sheet.

So whenever you get a chance I would love to read your thoughts on disc 2. Thanks for participating.

[page]

Hi Dan,
that would be the first one. I wasn't around in the 50's yet. I just found these two and since they had vocals that is a bit easier to look for. The other titles I know from familiar artists, unfortunately I couldn't find the renditions and artists of your BFT so far.

Yes, I found one on the net, I will look where they did mention that one. I love the Little George Benson. He must have been a little heartbreaker in those days already, lol, he sounds rather cute so young.

Ok, I'll remember that, but I'll try to get into some more before the end of the month though. No need to thank me, thank yóu, I'm loving it!

edit: I did make a mistake by including "by George Benson" in that title. The album is a compilation album with rare recordings of multiple artists and this song is on it. Sorry for posting that wrong and being misleading that way.
Kind regards, page

Edited April 25, 2015 by page

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

08. song: "Real Pretty Mama" – Redd Foxx composer : Dootsie Williams, H.C. Jones – Dooto Reocrds, vinyl, 45 RPM Single Us (B-side of "The Crazy House") May, 1957

Dootone Record Corporation . Los Angeles California

also appeared on: "Laff of the Party Volume 8". LP 1959

and on:

"The Last Shout! - Twilight Of The Blues Shouters 1954-1962" (2014 – LP – LP UK label Fantastic Voyage)

09. Little George Benson - song: "It should have been me #2" - composer Memphis (king) Curtis –

Originally released as Groove Records 0024 single in 1954.

also appeared on:

“Rare 78 RPM Rhythm & Blues Cuts by George Benson”

and on: “Groove Story: R&B from the Radio Corporation, Vol. 2”

Kind regards, page

Wow! My EXTREME goodness, you're good Page!

I've never heard either of those versions and wouldn't have guessed the singers in a zillion years!

WOOOOO!

MG

[Hot Ptah]

I listened to this BFT several times earlier in the month, but while I really like it all, I did not have much in the way of illuminating comments or correct guesses. So I admit, I have peeked and looked at the comments made by other members.

1. Is this Junior Cook from the "Good Cookin'" album? If so, then it is Mario Rivera on baritone sax. I saw Mario Rivera live once, with the Brian Lynch/Conrad Herwig Latin jazz band, and Rivera was the highlight of the band by far. That would explain why I like the baritone sax so much on this song.

I love the feel of this song, and just everything about it.

2. A guitar player from the Concord label. That does not narrow it down enough for me. I can't identify this, but I do like it a lot.

3. This is very interesting. For what it is, a sort of free flowing lyrical solo piano exploration, of the type that became more common after Keith Jarrett, this is a good one. It has more variety, different styles, and interesting ideas than others of this genre which I have heard. I feel like I should be able to place who it is, but I can't. I heard Richard Beirach do something like this in concert.

4. Arnett Cobb on Jumpin' at the Woodside. He had such a huge, soulful tone, but to be honest, I could not identify him on my own. This is a treat to hear.

5. Harold Ashby, from an album which also contains "Somewhere Over the Rainbow". So would that be "Harold Ashby Quartet" on Progressive, recorded in 1978 and released in 2014? It is good to have more Harold Ashby.

I was at the last concert that Ashby ever played, at the Folly Theater in Kansas City. I was sitting in my seat in the front row after the concert. Ashby was still sitting in his chair onstage, looking tired. A young man jumped onstage and yelled in his face, "HEY! What kind of saxophone did Johnny Hodges play?" Ashby looked noticeably shocked and stricken. I was about ten feet away and saw all of this. Shortly after that it was in the news that he had been rushed from the Folly Theater to a local hospital and was in intensive care with complications from a heart attack. He never recovered and never played live again. I have often wondered if that guy yelling unexpectedly in his face triggered some health crisis which was maybe already looming.

6. From the comments of others I have learned that this is Plas Johnson. It is a much more rough, wild and fun Plas than other Plas I have heard. I saw him live with Jay McShann once and he never played like this!

7. From the comments of others, I know that this is Phil Upchurch. Now that is a shock to me. I have heard a fair amount of Phil on recordings, and saw him live with Jimmy Smith, and have never heard him play with that guitar tone or with so much blues style. I like this a lot, and am glad to have learned about it.

When I saw Phil with Jimmy Smith, it was a hot afternoon at a Kansas City outdoor festival in July. It was close to 100 degrees and it was undeniably hot. But Jimmy Smith was the only performer all day and night to react to it by sitting most of his set out, after complaining onstage that it was too hot. So his guitarist, Phil Upchurch, played several solo guitar pieces, which were excellent. It did not sound anything like this track.

8, 9, It is in fact surprising to find out who the vocalists are on these songs, which are a lot of fun!

10. This sure sounds like Horace Silver and his group performing "Sister Sadie" live, but I can't find this performance anywhere. I will be very interested in finding out where it is from.

My feelings about the tracks on this disc range from "like a lot" to "love". I will have comments on Disc 2 soon.

_{Let me add that I am once again surprised at how Page can identify very obscure recordings!}

[Dan Gould]

I listened to this BFT several times earlier in the month, but while I really like it all, I did not have much in the way of illuminating comments or correct guesses. So I admit, I have peeked and looked at the comments made by other members.

1. Is this Junior Cook from the "Good Cookin'" album? If so, then it is Mario Rivera on baritone sax. I saw Mario Rivera live once, with the Brian Lynch/Conrad Herwig Latin jazz band, and Rivera was the highlight of the band by far. That would explain why I like the baritone sax so much on this song.

It is Junior Cook, but not from that album.

5. Harold Ashby, from an album which also contains "Somewhere Over the Rainbow". So would that be "Harold Ashby Quartet" on Progressive, recorded in 1978 and released in 2014? It is good to have more Harold Ashby.

Nice sleuthing, you got the recording though my vinyl has a different name.

10. This sure sounds like Horace Silver and his group performing "Sister Sadie" live, but I can't find this performance anywhere. I will be very interested in finding out where it is from.

Not Horace. Didn't figure it when I chose this one but a lot of people have thought it's Horace

Thanks for the stories Bill, and really you didn't do all that bad - much better than I usually do!

[JSngry]

Been without PC speakers until today, so, with the usual thanks and disclaimers firmly in place, let's get at least half of this done!

TRACK ONE - At first I was thinking later Horace Silver, then maybe Cedar Walton as far as composer,but no. and that's gotta be Bill Hardman. The tenor player sounds like a weirdly miked/EQ-ed Clifford Jordan, but THAT weird, don't think so. The tone of the bari sure sounds like Ronnie Cuber, but the chops seem down, whether by restraint or "just one of those things" I don't know I really like the drummer, no, LOVE the drummer, that's teh way Eddie Gladden played with Dexter the one time I saw the. LOVE me some splishy-slpashy Eddie Gladden. So, deducing Eddie Gladden/Bill Hardman/Ronnie Cuber together, and this composition's definite quirkiness...Mickey Tucker on Xanadu? Lots of personality in this one, yeah.

TRACK TWO - Should be Kenny Burrell, if it's not, then who cares? Well, the further it gets into it, I might. Sounds like an Ellington riff, not "Love You Madly" but born of the same loinage, if perhaps not seed. Oh, but/so it is live, and Burrell made some heavy live trio sides, but this would be one that I do not know if it is indeed one of them. I caught that "Tender Trap" quote coming out of the bass solo, ah-HA! Not relevant, probably, but there it is. I don't know, very competent, expert, really playing, and what it might lack in immediate heat is at least equally compensated for by the ineffable You Think It's So Easy, YOU Do It! quality. Still thinking it should be Burrell, even if it's not, because Burrell did a live trio version of "Second Balcony Jump" on Muse back in the day, that is pretty much the ne plus ultra of this type of thing for me. However, is that Ray Brown? But there are fleeting moments when this person gets right up on the beat in a way that Burrell never would, can run but can't hide, etc.

TRACK THREE - Not feeling this one, sorry...the math is too obvious, and the touch too Bill Evans-y for me in the quiet moments and too generically HerbieChickMcCoy for the rest of of it at this time. Whoever it is sure can play, though. Perhaps all the devices are meant to be the point, though. In which case, point missed here, my bad, although, hey, wtf, that's an over Jarret-ism that "country" lick there, please don't do that again, anybody. I hope this is a young-ish pianist who's still at the point of mastering the techniques in search of a personal voice. If that's the case, ok.

TRACK FOUR - Late (I'm guessing, because this is a bit low-key compared to them old days when just one note would immediately stiffen everything you had and then go from there) Arnette, chanelling Buddy Tate (if you've not already, you'll want to hear the Newport/New York Jam Session Buddy Tate solo on this tune) & Illinois. I'm kind of of the mind that if you can't warm to Arnette then you have some kind of latent soiciopathic gene buried inside and you should just get the hell out/off of this plane before people get hurt. Nothing personal, whoever you might be, just sayin'.

TRACK FIVE - Wanted to bite on Ben, but the more it went, the more it sounded like Harold Ashby. It pays to listen to Ellington record..ALL of em. You'll always hear players with distinct voices, even if it's not immediately obvious.

TRACK SIX - I'd like to phone a friend and buy a Plas Johnson? I love that bari thing, that was hot for a quick minutes there, eh? Bari riffing all the way behind the tenor and doing that half-step lead into the bridge chords, I'm a sucker for that shit, even when it's done hokily, which it is not here. And geez, those old guys could just honk ALL over the horn, didn't matter what octave of the horn it was or what the fingering was, if it was a sound coming out of the horn, those guys could honk it. I love that shit. Just let me make sure, this isn't Red Prysick, is it? Some things jsut sound too Plas-y, but I don't get much around anymore.

TRACK SEVEN - But...I AM sitting down! I've heard so many damn versions of this, is the original, Phil Upchurch, or an answer record therefrom? I hope this is from a 45, I almost think it has to be, because I don't think they mastered LPs that damn HOT...I hope to someday get into 45s like some people are into 78s, and not for the rarities, but just because they mastered 45s to cut like a knife in jukeboxes and on car radios. Listen to that B3, play it loud on cheap speakers and tell me that you feel cheated. Not gonna happen. NOT gonna happen.

TRACK EIGHT - Dammit, that's Joe Williams? I know he did some early sides in this vein, might even have some, but I'm not gonna remember that as far as remembering Joe Williams! Two chorus R&B tenor solos are damn near always better. However, let me listen a little bit closer to that vocal,, is that Sam Butera? Sam Butera will fool you sometimes, just when you think he's The Inevitable Hokester", NO! Sam Butera was no joke, although he often was a jokester...definitely NOT a Hokester. Not the same thing.

TRACK NINE - Shoulda Wooda Cudda. Ray Charles, Si!, whoever this is...just don't see it. Sounds like an RCA record, sounds like a kid. Beyond that, I'll not guess. Not feeling that drummer, though. And the guitar plays ALL the way through...not a good production choice, I think, just unfocuses everything, it's cool when it works, but this just sounds like a raw band track with a singer overdubbed in no more than two takes. And really, who'd that drummer have to blow to get the date? Sorry to be so crude about it, but...really.

TRACK TEN - Is this British? And/or is that Yusef on tenor? Either way, I'm good with this. Trumpeter still learning the book, or OOPS, hey shit happens, glad this isn't being recorded!

This was a good'un Dan. Looking forward to getting to Part 2 either tonight or tomorrow, good lord willing and the Creek don't rise.

[Dan Gould]

Been without PC speakers until today, so, with the usual thanks and disclaimers firmly in place, let's get at least half of this done!

TRACK ONE - At first I was thinking later Horace Silver, then maybe Cedar Walton as far as composer,but no. and that's gotta be Bill Hardman. The tenor player sounds like a weirdly miked/EQ-ed Clifford Jordan, but THAT weird, don't think so. The tone of the bari sure sounds like Ronnie Cuber, but the chops seem down, whether by restraint or "just one of those things" I don't know I really like the drummer, no, LOVE the drummer, that's teh way Eddie Gladden played with Dexter the one time I saw the. LOVE me some splishy-slpashy Eddie Gladden. So, deducing Eddie Gladden/Bill Hardman/Ronnie Cuber together, and this composition's definite quirkiness...Mickey Tucker on Xanadu? Lots of personality in this one, yeah.

Yup, Mickey Tucker on Xanadu

TRACK TWO - Should be Kenny Burrell, if it's not, then who cares? Well, the further it gets into it, I might. Sounds like an Ellington riff, not "Love You Madly" but born of the same loinage, if perhaps not seed. Oh, but/so it is live, and Burrell made some heavy live trio sides, but this would be one that I do not know if it is indeed one of them. I caught that "Tender Trap" quote coming out of the bass solo, ah-HA! Not relevant, probably, but there it is. I don't know, very competent, expert, really playing, and what it might lack in immediate heat is at least equally compensated for by the ineffable You Think It's So Easy, YOU Do It! quality. Still thinking it should be Burrell, even if it's not, because Burrell did a live trio version of "Second Balcony Jump" on Muse back in the day, that is pretty much the ne plus ultra of this type of thing for me. However, is that Ray Brown? But there are fleeting moments when this person gets right up on the beat in a way that Burrell never would, can run but can't hide, etc.

Not Kenny. Maybe Jim R. will come back for one more go 'round with this track.

TRACK THREE - Not feeling this one, sorry...the math is too obvious, and the touch too Bill Evans-y for me in the quiet moments and too generically HerbieChickMcCoy for the rest of of it at this time. Whoever it is sure can play, though. Perhaps all the devices are meant to be the point, though. In which case, point missed here, my bad, although, hey, wtf, that's an over Jarret-ism that "country" lick there, please don't do that again, anybody. I hope this is a young-ish pianist who's still at the point of mastering the techniques in search of a personal voice. If that's the case, ok.

A young 'un, yes. You're the first of those who dug this track to not have much of a positive reaction. Thoughts may change, or perspective shift, after the reveal.

TRACK FOUR - Late (I'm guessing, because this is a bit low-key compared to them old days when just one note would immediately stiffen everything you had and then go from there) Arnette, chanelling Buddy Tate (if you've not already, you'll want to hear the Newport/New York Jam Session Buddy Tate solo on this tune) & Illinois. I'm kind of of the mind that if you can't warm to Arnette then you have some kind of latent soiciopathic gene buried inside and you should just get the hell out/off of this plane before people get hurt. Nothing personal, whoever you might be, just sayin'.

Yes this is Arnett toward the end ...

TRACK FIVE - Wanted to bite on Ben, but the more it went, the more it sounded like Harold Ashby. It pays to listen to Ellington record..ALL of em. You'll always hear players with distinct voices, even if it's not immediately obvious.

TRACK SIX - I'd like to phone a friend and buy a Plas Johnson? I love that bari thing, that was hot for a quick minutes there, eh? Bari riffing all the way behind the tenor and doing that half-step lead into the bridge chords, I'm a sucker for that shit, even when it's done hokily, which it is not here. And geez, those old guys could just honk ALL over the horn, didn't matter what octave of the horn it was or what the fingering was, if it was a sound coming out of the horn, those guys could honk it. I love that shit. Just let me make sure, this isn't Red Prysick, is it? Some things jsut sound too Plas-y, but I don't get much around anymore.

I knew you'd get Plas. You always do.

TRACK EIGHT - Dammit, that's Joe Williams? I know he did some early sides in this vein, might even have some, but I'm not gonna remember that as far as remembering Joe Williams! Two chorus R&B tenor solos are damn near always better. However, let me listen a little bit closer to that vocal,, is that Sam Butera? Sam Butera will fool you sometimes, just when you think he's The Inevitable Hokester", NO! Sam Butera was no joke, although he often was a jokester...definitely NOT a Hokester. Not the same thing.

TRACK NINE - Shoulda Wooda Cudda. Ray Charles, Si!, whoever this is...just don't see it. Sounds like an RCA record, sounds like a kid. Beyond that, I'll not guess. Not feeling that drummer, though. And the guitar plays ALL the way through...not a good production choice, I think, just unfocuses everything, it's cool when it works, but this just sounds like a raw band track with a singer overdubbed in no more than two takes. And really, who'd that drummer have to blow to get the date? Sorry to be so crude about it, but...really.

Track 8 is not Joe Williams. If you've looked thru the comments both of these have been ID'd and you'll know why I chose them.

TRACK TEN - Is this British? And/or is that Yusef on tenor? Either way, I'm good with this. Trumpeter still learning the book, or OOPS, hey shit happens, glad this isn't being recorded!

Not British, and not Yusef either. But closer to British then 'merican.

This was a good'un Dan. Looking forward to getting to Part 2 either tonight or tomorrow, good lord willing and the Creek don't rise.

Well worth the wait, Jim. Glad the speakers finally cooperated.

[JSngry]

Why do they all play like Joe Henderson and none like Arnett Cobb?

This might be the record by which to ponder that!

But seriously...

"Muldrow" is not a common last name that I know of...is Cornell Muldrow related to Ronald Muldrow, guitarist with Eddie Harris and father of Georgia Anne Muldrow?

so...Redd Foxx is definitley NOT either Joe Williams or Sam Butera, and George Benson...got better with the passage of time!

But indeed, Page, WHOA!

[Dan Gould]

I'd hope we're all better than we were at age 10.

[page]

Eh... you are way too kind concerning me, guys. Really, I do not know so much, I just have some determination and patience to look for and at places that do have a lot of information. I wouldn't be able to participate when I would have to just rely on the discography I have at home. I just have a snippet of what you guys have and can't afford to buy that often. I hope it is still okay that I play this game with my own abilities this way, just doing thorough research? I really enjoy the search and am having fun 'biting' myself in it until I'll find an answer. I learn about so much new music this way and I also enjoy the little stories that go with it. Jazz and blues are so great and full of those. It just makes me happy finding these.

Edited May 1, 2015 by page

[Hot Ptah]

page, It is fine to play this game through research. Often I try to research the music, armed with a few clues, but I do not find the answer.

[Jim R]

I hope it is still okay that I play this game with my own abilities this way, just doing thorough research?

A well-accepted practice that goes back to the beginnings of the Organissimo BFT. As Jim Nantz might say, "a tradition unlike any other".

Edited May 1, 2015 by Jim R