iTunes Blues

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Yeah, I'M the one who said he hated iTunes. Not because it don't work, but because Apple insist on trying to make me think like them. I don't do other people's minds, only mine.

MG

Yeah. See, Scott? SEE? 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

2 hours ago, fasstrack said:

Yeah. See, Scott? SEE? 

MG

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Yeah, I'M the one who said he hated iTunes. Not because it don't work, but because Apple insist on trying to make me think like them. I don't do other people's minds, only mine.

MG

Welllllllllll....if you successfully engage with software at all, you're going to have to eventually think like the developers and coders. Windows, Linux, Apple, whoever. If you don't, you will not get anything done.

Until we get some kind of Vulcan Mind-Meld operating system where you can think it and have it happen with nothing in between, there will be that.

Having said that, I really don't like the way that apple software "thinks", I actually like to work a little harder than that as far as being engaged in a process, and don't want to get disengaged to the point to where I think there's no machine involved, that I really am creating my own reality all by myself.

Of course, anybody on any platform can end up like that, but for me personally, what I've seen of Apple seems that they would make it easier for me personally to drift off into that. So I avoid. Do I trust myself not to get lazy? About as far as I can throw me with one hand tied behind my back.

Mileages will vary, obviously.

[Scott Dolan]

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

If you want to delete an album from iTunes, you click it to select it, press your delete button then, like Windows or most other stuff, it'll ask if you do want to delete the songs (no asshole, I've selected an album, don't wanna delete songs but the whole shebang  and there are no songs, just a fifty minute sermon ). THEN you can't say yes or no, but you have to say delete.

Sorry, that's not the way people in every culture respond to such a question. In other software they expect, rationally, that you'll say yes or no.

MG

I'm really not understanding what you're trying to say. 

In iTunes if I want to delete an album, I move my cursor over it, right click, choose delete, it asks me to verify I want to delete, and delete it does. 

That's SOP for pretty much every computer program that runs on OS X and Microsoft. 

What a I missing here? 

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

MG

I do fancy myself the jokester. Life being short and all...  

[Scott Dolan]

Joel, you never answered my question. Why do you need to set Window Media Player as your default player if all you have to do is click on files to make them play? 

[JSngry]

I'm gonna blame Groove Music. Some shit they put on there makes itself the default player and then you gotta get under the hood a little bit to un-default it. Usually it's as simple as going into WMP and choosing file type associations and then defaults. Or was that simple, no idea what's there now.

And I would think/hope that in iTunes there is a user setting for requesting confirmation of some or all actions, especially delete. I mean, is anybody really THAT confident?

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

Joel, you never answered my question. Why do you need to set Window Media Player as your default player if all you have to do is click on files to make them play? 

Right, as Jim just said, my new laptop came with Groove Music---thus far a piece of s%^t---pre-installed.

 

But I think 1 or both of us is confused: I meant to say Media Player for downloads or web radio, library from control panel for files (none of which, BTW, are loaded yet. They were burned from CDs onto the hard drive of my now-retired old laptop. I'm waiting for a DVD/CCD ROM drive to arrive any day, so I can burn them onto the hard drive of the new one. Sorry about any confusion I may have caused earlier,,,

 

 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I'm really not understanding what you're trying to say. 

In iTunes if I want to delete an album, I move my cursor over it, right click, choose delete, it asks me to verify I want to delete, and delete it does. 

That's SOP for pretty much every computer program that runs on OS X and Microsoft. 

What a I missing here? 

What you're missing is, when it asks you to verify it does so in a way that's counter-intuitive to the way human beings think. The options it offers are Delete and cancel, whereas everyone confronted by the question 'Are you sure you want to ...' will instinctively want to reply Y or N, because that's common to every culture on earth, iTunes wants you to press D or C. All the others expect Y or N.

Why is Apple different? They want to be different.

Well, bollocks to 'em, from The Magnificent Goldberg.

MG

[fasstrack]

Self-absorbed update to Jim and Scott: just dumped Groove and set Media Player as default.

 

'f them all, they can't take a joke'

---National Lampoon, sometime in the '70s...

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

What you're missing is, when it asks you to verify it does so in a way that's counter-intuitive to the way human beings think. The options it offers are Delete and cancel, whereas everyone confronted by the question 'Are you sure you want to ...' will instinctively want to reply Y or N, because that's common to every culture on earth, iTunes wants you to press D or C. All the others expect Y or N.

Why is Apple different? They want to be different.

Well, bollocks to 'em, from The Magnificent Goldberg.

MG

Counter-intuitive...for us, anyway. Sometimes I see software - proprietary business software, mind you, where the "Accept/Yes/Etc" button is on the right. I spent years getting programmed to react to "Yes" being the first, i.e. left, choice..."Yes or No", not "No or Yes"

Also seeing more and more naming conventions switching to straightup First Last instead of Last, First. Either people are going ITunes/File Artist Name crazy or else alphabetization by last name, like handwriting, is becoming a lost art. Or maybe it's that everything has gotten so micro-monetized that ultimately commas cost more in terms of data space/capacity. Am I kidding? Maybe?

Evolution continues...my personal opinions notwithstanding, it continues. All I can do is watch and pay attention.

[fasstrack]

1 hour ago, rostasi said:

I think we could've had a couple less pages of this discussion
if we had known that Joel actual does have audio player software
(Windows Media Player), tho he seemed to not know this himself.

  

 

Duh....I knew that...

To quote a great trumpet player and even greater wit, John Eckert;

 

'They said it was idiot-proof, but I think I found a way to beat it'... 

[JSngry]

I like to think of a perfect piano as something one gets to, not something that is just always there.

The one thing I have no real appetite for is a more perfect mediocrity.

[Scott Dolan]

I'm more confused now, and I didn't think that was possible. 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

15 hours ago, rostasi said:

I think we could've had a couple less pages of this discussion
if we had known that Joel actual does have audio player software
(Windows Media Player), tho he seemed to not know this himself.

As for the "getting under the hood" idea, yes, it's true, but the 
thing that you're getting under the hood to do is usually to fix
something that a PC should do naturally or to fix some software
prob that sometimes has been left up to the user to beta test.
While the PC guy is trying to get his piano delivered thru the
front door of the performance space, the Mac guy not only has
his piano waiting for him, but it's been tuned and calibrated to
room acoustics and tried out with a full version of Klavierstück X! 
I prefer to be that guy - the guy who is all ready and set to get on
with the performance - or even to "get under the hood" even further -
a personalization of his sound maybe thru "preparing" his piano
for the "Sonatas and Interludes..." for instance. American Motors
Corporation (like PCs and their fondness for multi-corp "parts"
i.e. software) had the Hornet which you could certainly spend some
time "under-the-hood" ... and then there's a Prius, for example, 
which you have the option of spending time "under-the-hood."

Deleting stuff: when you delete a tune or more, yes, you have the
choice of removing or changing your mind. This is done the very
first time you ever try to delete something - it's a courtesy, not
a nefarious plot or an attempt at insult. There's a click-box:
"Do not ask me again" if you never want to be asked again. Done.

Earlier, I mentioned variations on "delete." This is even more helpful
for more deep-down possibilities if they're needed. iTunes, for instance,
makes it possible to completely delete that song for good by putting it
in the trash...or you can remove it from your library while still keeping it
on your hard drive. Choice! Glorious choice! One I'm needing and liking
right now because I have three-quarters of a million tunes in iTunes now.

Being "different" in the case of a lack of "yes" or "no" choice is based,
not on ego, but rather the real experience of dealing with something
that is not human, and a consideration of human foibles. When presented
with "yes" or "no" in machine language, there is no such thing as it being 
"counter-intuitive to the way human beings think," because there is no
standard template for that. A human could just as easily get impatient
and think "No" as in: "no, I don't want that song anymore" and hit "No"
and get frustrated that the song wasn't deleted. I see variations of this kind
of thing on online forums often. It's like the guy who wants to go up on the
elevator, but presses the "down" button to bring the elevator down to his floor.
You have to "think different" sometimes when dealing with something that
is second-guessing what people - of all kinds - will think and interpret. 
The idea of slogging off a complete system because of a semantic dislike
is something I can safely say I've yet to encounter - until now.

Thank you, Rod. I think you're wrong, but I can live with that explanation.

However (there's ALWAYS one)

'it's a courtesy, not
a nefarious plot or an attempt at insult. There's a click-box:
"Do not ask me again" if you never want to be asked again. Done.'

OK, as far as it goes, but personally, I do find it useful to have that because if I DID hit the delete button, meaning to hit 'insert' or 'end', I know it'll make me check.

MG

[Scott Dolan]

But it does, unless you instruct it otherwise. And that option (to never be asked again) isn't even available when it comes to deletion. 

[Scott Dolan]

That's odd. I never get the don't ask me again options on my iMac. Maybe it's a Windows thing? 

Either way, I still fail to see what's so offensive and different about the deletion options. How is Apple trying to get me to "think differently"? I either want to delete it or I don't. 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

2 hours ago, rostasi said:

Two (or three) glorious choices:

Simple deletion:

I haven't checked the box, because I like to be reminded just in case I'm getting
ready to do something I really didn't want, BUT, there's still the option to check it.

 

a more advanced deletion:

I've used both of the options on the right.

Funny, I get neither of those messages. Perhaps it's because I haven't updated iTunes. I can't be bothered with firms' eternal updates, unless they want to tell me what I'm actually going to get for them.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Well, I dunno - never seen anything like that.

MG

[Scott Dolan]

Good lord, MG! Now "constant updating" is a major complaint?! iTunes updates FAR less than a lot of common programs do, and if you don't want to update, then don't.

I mean, it's cool if you don't care to use it, but the reasons why are...well, kinda silly. 

[Scott Dolan]

Rod has officially won the Internet! 

[JSngry]

Forced updates, i.e. - job-enforced - mandate you to adapt. I just got Office 2013 at work today, had heard massive weepings about how "I can't FIND anything anymore", especially in Outlook, but....if you've worked with Microsoft apps before, you should know that there's a hood to get under, right? So I was able to customize it back to as much as it was before as possible.

One the one hand, it's a drag that the net result of this is that I had to go through all of this to keep doing everything I was already doing, only to have it "look" a little different. I like the way it looked before, but I was used to that. I'll get used to this.

Upside, the new Office does seem to offer greater functionality for true power users (one of which I am not), and it will no doubt work smoother with 10 (if/when we ever get there, right now on 7, and nooooo complaints there for me about that).

What strikes me, though, is that so many people get wigged out by change, their first and often only reaction is to cry about it. Well, hell, learn how the shit works, Google it, Click the ?, hell, ask a teammate who's NOT crying, right? There are no mysteries to this stuff, at least not at the basic end-user level. Know your software, own your outcome, right?

[JSngry]

Does that get filed under "representative sampling"? 

[Scott Dolan]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

What strikes me, though, is that so many people get wigged out by change, their first and often only reaction is to cry about it. Well, hell, learn how the shit works, Google it, Click the ?, hell, ask a teammate who's NOT crying, right? There are no mysteries to this stuff, at least not at the basic end-user level. Know your software, own your outcome, right?

An amen of the unrepresentative sampling type. 

But, in fairness it is human nature to oppose change. You know that as well as I do. 

Comfort is as comfort does, that's what Forrest said...

[JSngry]

Don't know if opposing change is hardwired as much as is resisting even a momentary removal of comfort.