BFT 145 Discusion

[Dan Gould]

Well done. Was this a bit of sleuthing or did Jim's ID send you to your own stacks?

[mjzee]

38 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Well done. Was this a bit of sleuthing or did Jim's ID send you to your own stacks?

Sleuthing.  I wouldn't know Jesper Thilo from Casper The Friendly Ghost.  But Scott Hamilton doing Blue Monk sent me on the hunt.  It was interesting to hear how the tenor could produce two very different sounds - I wondered whether one of them was a baritone.

[Caravan]

Track 5

Lucky Thompson?

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Caravan said:

Track 5

Lucky Thompson?

Well done. Was that a guess or do you know what recording it comes from?

[JSngry]

I can't hear that being anybody besides Thad Jones.

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I can't hear that being anybody besides Thad Jones.

Then the info on the recording is completely wrong.  Two trumpeters, one is KD and the other is not Thad.

[BillF]

55 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Then the info on the recording is completely wrong.  Two trumpeters, one is KD and the other is not Thad.

Sounds like Thad to me.

[Caravan]

8 hours ago, Caravan said:

8 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Well done. Was that a guess or do you know what recording it comes from?

Track 5

Lucky Thompson?

No, don't know which record it is. Just recognized Lucky Thompson (especially the fast runs towards the end convinced me, as well as the overall tone). Could the pianist be Tommy Flanagan?

[Dan Gould]

Not Flanagan.

 

[Spontooneous]

What Jim and Bill said. That second trumpet solo is nobody but Thad.

I'll hazard a guess that the third is Joe Newman.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Spontooneous
aww, do i have to have a reason?

[Dan Gould]

Well it's certainly interesting since the label actually makes the guy who is not KD out as the headliner, and not not not Thad Jones.

On a separate question is everyone hearing three different trumpeters? Cause I only hear two on the theme and the label, which for all I truly know could have their heads up their asses, only have two trumpet soloists.

[BillF]

10 hours ago, Caravan said:

No, don't know which record it is. Just recognized Lucky Thompson (especially the fast runs towards the end convinced me, as well as the overall tone). Could the pianist be Tommy Flanagan?

Agree it sounds like Lucky and no one else towards the end. You kick yourself for not recognizing him!

10 hours ago, Caravan said:

 

 

Board up the spout again. Apologies!

Edited April 3, 2016 by BillF
Board up the spout

[JSngry]

Is #10 Teddy Edwards with Gerald Wilson? I could also guess Onzy Matthews, but no Onzy cuts that I know are that long.

As for the Dorham/Thad-not Thad thing (and yeah, I hear three trumpeters, not so much on the head as in the soloists) here's a list of all known Dorham recordings. If our BFT mystery cut is not found here, hen either it's a true find, or else the record label gt it all wrong:http://www.jazzdisco.org/kenny-dorham/discography/

 

[BillF]

I spotted "Funky Blues", Jim spotted Teddy Edwards, this closes the loop:

http://sunnysidezone.com/track/disc-5-joe-castro-big-band-reflection-funky-blues-soloists-edwards-castro-candoli-vinnegar

(Beautiful music IMHO)

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by BillF

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

As for the Dorham/Thad-not Thad thing (and yeah, I hear three trumpeters, not so much on the head as in the soloists) here's a list of all known Dorham recordings. If our BFT mystery cut is not found here, hen either it's a true find, or else the record label gt it all wrong:http://www.jazzdisco.org/kenny-dorham/discography/

 

Well I do not see the record on that page.  But I don't think it's a true find necessarily.

1 hour ago, BillF said:

I spotted "Funky Blues", Jim spotted Teddy Edwards, this closes the loop:

http://sunnysidezone.com/track/disc-5-joe-castro-big-band-reflection-funky-blues-soloists-edwards-castro-candoli-vinnegar

(Beautiful music IMHO)

 

Good call from Jim and nice sleuthing by Bill.

[JSngry]

That arrangement's a beaut...are there other records that Joe Castro did the arranging for?

[Dan Gould]

31 minutes ago, JSngry said:

That arrangement's a beaut...are there other records that Joe Castro did the arranging for?

The entire big band disc on that set gives arrangement credit to Joe.

He also conducted.

[JSngry]

No, seriously, are there any other records that he arranged? I mean, it's pretty high-shelf stuff, especially those wide sax voicings...Oliver, Gerald, not too many more...if he arranged some singer date or something, I want to hear it now, that's fine writing.

[Dan Gould]

Castro handled arrangements for his own Lush Life (Clover) but that was with an orchestra. Looking thru

http://www.joecastrojazz.com/

I don't see any other references to Joe handling arrangements other than a quintet session for Clover that saw one 45 release.

[JSngry]

Is it possible that he used ghostwriters, or that accurate records of arrangers have not survived? Not saying that as a dis, just that somebody who wrote that well should not have hid their light under a bushel.

[Hot Ptah]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 2:32 PM, Dan Gould said:

Then the info on the recording is completely wrong.  Two trumpeters, one is KD and the other is not Thad.

Track 2:

Doing some internet sleuthing and researching, and listening to short samples available online, I think that this recording is Kenny Dorham, Howard McGhee, and Thad Jones. It is wrongly titled "The Theme" in the albums I have found online. It appears on compilation albums of bop and trumpet collections, from what I can find online so far. Could any of that be so, Dan?

Edited April 3, 2016 by Hot Ptah

[Dan Gould]

31 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

Track 2;

Doing some internet sleuthing and researching, and listening to short samples available online, I think that this recording is Kenny Dorham, Howard McGhee, and Thad Jones. It is wrongly titled "The Theme" in the albums I have found online. It appears on compilation albums of bop and trumpet collections, from what I can find online so far. Could any of that be so, Dan?

Not by the information on the album.  Which includes fairly descriptive liner notes, by the way, not just presumed discographical information.

[Hot Ptah]

38 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Not by the information on the album.  Which includes fairly descriptive liner notes, by the way, not just presumed discographical information.

Isn't it this session, from the discography that Jim Sangry has provided:

Thad Jones - Howard McGhee - Kenny Dorham Sextet

Kenny Dorham, Thad Jones, Howard McGhee (trumpet) Billy Taylor (piano) Percy Heath (bass) Albert Heath (drums)

NYC, July 4, 1966

	The Theme	Europa Jazz (It) EJ 1039
	Blues	-

* Europa Jazz (It) EJ 1039   Thad Jones - Howard McGhee - Kenny Dorham

 

I have found three different compilation CDs online, all with a song credited to Dorham/Thad Jones/McGhee which is "Bags Groove" but which is titled  "The Theme" on all of them. The short samples which I can listen to online for all of these CDs all sound a whole lot like your Track 2.

I do not mean to be argumentative, Dan. It is more that this is very mysterious, that you have an album with different credits, for what I am finding as the track in the discography entry above.

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Hot Ptah

[Dan Gould]

I saw that listing on the KD discography which is why I stated that the recording is not on the webpage as my recording is not Europa Jazz 1039. 

[Hot Ptah]

I am finding what I am almost sure is your Track 2 on "Pure Be-Bop" (Laserlight 17162) and on "The Best of the Jazz Trumpets" (LRC Ltd./Groove Merchant Records). Earlier today I found another CD compiliation which has it, but it is frustrating that I cannot find it again online now.

It will be truly interesting to learn what Track 2 really is Dan, when you post your Reveal at the end of the month.