AOTW Sept. 11-17 - Henry Threadgill Song Out of My Trees

[paul secor]

                                  

                                                Henry Threadgill:  Song out of My Trees (Black Saint)

Henry Threadgill's music is ever changing. From his recordings with Air to his latest, Old Locks and Irregular Verbs, his music has never remained static. Someone once said, "He not busy being born is busy dying." Henry Threadgill has remained very much alive over the years.

 

Song Out of My Trees is one of my favorite Henry Threadgill recordings. I find it fascinating on many levels: the music itself is wonderful; the instrumentation is more varied than any that I could imagine - though obviously not more varied than Henry Threadgill could imagine; also, I believe that this was one of the first times on record that Mr. Threadgill didn't play on all of the tracks. His role is composer/facilitator on two, but there's no falloff with the music on them.

 

I'd just like to list the instrumentation on the five tracks: "Gateway" - alto sax, trumpet, guitar, acoustic bass guitar, drums (looks like a standard jazz group, but it doesn't sound like one); "Over the River Club" - three guitars, bass guitar, piano; "Grief" - alto sax, accordion, harpsichord, two cellos, voice; "Crea" - hunting horns, three guitars, bass guitar, "Song Out of My Trees" - alto sax, guitar, organ drums (what's his take on a sax plus organ trio? - give a listen and decide.)

 

I don't know whether this music is jazz. I just think of it as Henry Threadgill music.

 

I hope that those who have the record will comment on it (general thoughts, favorite cuts, favorite moments), and that some who don't have it might be moved to pick it up. There are reasonably priced copies here: https://www.amazon.com/Song-Out-Trees-Henry-Threadgill/dp/B0000010ZN/ref=sr_1_18?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1473597056&sr=1-18&keywords=henry+threadgill

and elsewhere.

 

Enjoy the music.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by paul secor

[uli]

will give it a listen, top of my head i'd say "Grief" is my favorite cut.the accordeon for me gives it a nice nostalgic mediterrean feel

[soulpope]

5 hours ago, paul secor said:

                                  

                                                Henry Threadgill:  Song out of My Trees (Black Saint)

Henry Threadgill's music is ever changing. From his recordings with Air to his latest, Old Locks and Irregular Verbs, his music has never remained static. Someone once said, "He not busy being born is busy dying." Henry Threadgill has remained very much alive over the years.

 

Song Out of My Trees is one of my favorite Henry Threadgill recordings. I find it fascinating on many levels: the music itself is wonderful; the instrumentation is more varied than any that I could imagine - though obviously not more varied than Henry Threadgill could imagine; also, I believe that this was one of the first times on record that Mr. Threadgill didn't play on all of the tracks. His role is composer/facilitator on two, but there's no falloff with the music on them.

 

I'd just like to list the instrumentation on the five tracks: "Gateway" - alto sax, trumpet, guitar, acoustic bass guitar, drums (looks like a standard jazz group, but it doesn't sound like one); "Over the River Club" - three guitars, bass guitar, piano; "Grief" - alto sax, accordion, harpsichord, two cellos, voice; "Crea" - hunting horns, three guitars, bass guitar, "Song Out of My Trees" - alto sax, guitar, organ drums (what's his take on a sax plus organ trio? - give a listen and decide.)

 

I don't know whether this music is jazz. I just think of it as Henry Threadgill music.

 

I hope that those who have the record will comment on it (general thoughts, favorite cuts, favorite moments), and that some who don't have it might be moved to pick it up. There are reasonably priced copies here: https://www.amazon.com/Song-Out-Trees-Henry-Threadgill/dp/B0000010ZN/ref=sr_1_18?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1473597056&sr=1-18&keywords=henry+threadgill

and elsewhere.

 

Enjoy the music.

 

 

It is also part of this attractively priced Box :

Edited September 11, 2016 by soulpope

[Guy Berger]

4 hours ago, uli said:

will give it a listen, top of my head i'd say "Grief" is my favorite cut.the accordeon for me gives it a nice nostalgic mediterrean feel

I agree with uli, "Grief" is my personal highlight.

How do people feel about Henry's absence as an instrumentalist from two of the tracks here?  While I love him as a composer/conductor, his instrumental voice is really wonderful and really welcome when it's present.

[JSngry]

What I recall most immediately about this one was how "stealth" it seemed,. Henry had been having a long run of band albums, strong bands, essential bands, definitive bands, and now right in the middle of absorbing Very Very Circus, here comes this, NOT a band album, a ccomposer album. Seems like a minor difference, but in real time, it seemed like a big difference, almost like a "solo album" except....

What it did show, as did X-75, was that Henry Threadgill's music was not just about writing for a band. Although he has been one of the ongoingly brilliant exponents of that type of writing in both the 20th and 21st centuries, he can also function quite well as a "composer" composer ( I need a better way to say that...), his ideas can accommodate any instrumentation, and vice versa, not just as "vehicles", but as compositions.

That's how I remember this record, as a "composer's record" and a very enchanting one at that.

To Guy's point, I am never "happy" when a great instrumental voice is not present. But with  Henry still directing that music, the spirit voice is still very much presrnt, and that works for me. Contrast that to the record of Julius Hemphill's saxophone sextet music made after Hemphill had died...so close, quite good, but just not the same. So, if for whatever reason Henry chooses not to play, as long as he's in it, he will win it.

 

[Leeway]

Wonderful album, reflective of Threadgill's restless and varied creativity. An album of many hues and lines. Of the tracks that Threadgill is not on, I'm particularly impressed with "Over the River Club," which has Myra Melford on piano, giving an impressive performance. 

[paul secor]

Here's a very interesting interview with Henry Threadill in which he speaks on a variety of topics:

https://ethaniverson.com/interview-with-henry-threadgill-part-1/

[soulpope]

Was (btw am) a big fan of his recordings with Air and the Sextet Recording for About Time / Novus - thereafter I somehow "lost" him .... or he lost me ....

Edited September 12, 2016 by soulpope

[paul secor]

An earlier Threadgill thread with much fascinating information and discussion:

 

[paul secor]

19 hours ago, JSngry said:

What I recall most immediately about this one was how "stealth" it seemed,. Henry had been having a long run of band albums, strong bands, essential bands, definitive bands, and now right in the middle of absorbing Very Very Circus, here comes this, NOT a band album, a ccomposer album. Seems like a minor difference, but in real time, it seemed like a big difference, almost like a "solo album" except....

What it did show, as did X-75, was that Henry Threadgill's music was not just about writing for a band. Although he has been one of the ongoingly brilliant exponents of that type of writing in both the 20th and 21st centuries, he can also function quite well as a "composer" composer ( I need a better way to say that...), his ideas can accommodate any instrumentation, and vice versa, not just as "vehicles", but as compositions.

That's how I remember this record, as a "composer's record" and a very enchanting one at that.

To Guy's point, I am never "happy" when a great instrumental voice is not present. But with  Henry still directing that music, the spirit voice is still very much presrnt, and that works for me. Contrast that to the record of Julius Hemphill's saxophone sextet music made after Hemphill had died...so close, quite good, but just not the same. So, if for whatever reason Henry chooses not to play, as long as he's in it, he will win it.

 

I like the idea of it being a "stealth" album. It seemed like that to me back when and still does.

And you make another good point. It's a "composer's record". Even though all of Henry Threadgill's records present him as a composer, this one does that even more so for me, probably because of the variety of musicians and instruments present. 

And you're right about the two tracks Henry Threadgill doesn't play on. He may not be there, but he's "there".

[danasgoodstuff]

As much as I admire Henry as a composer, it's his alto sound that I like best.

[xybert]

Love this album! For some reason i've gotten the impression that it was slightly underrated among Threadgill fans, although i'm not quite sure where i picked that up from.

I've always thought of it as being quite a cinematic album, although i'm not sure whether that will mean the same thing to me as it does to you (i'm not even really sure of what i mean myself).

Like others have noted, Grief is a highlight. I've always loved that bit that starts about halfway through Crea where there's that strumming guitar riff and then the horn comes in over the top. 

Regarding Threadgill not playing on a couple of tracks... different strokes, sincerely, but i've never had an issue with stuff like that with artists like Threadgill. I guess for some it would be like "why have a Sinatra album where he's not singing?" And i get that... the instrument(s) that you play and soloing are a huge part of jazz... but... case by case i guess. If say Hard-bop is your thing, i get that it's part of the language (although, even then it might be cool if sometimes the leader felt free to lay out on the occasional track). I just feel like, if you're a composer and you're coming up with stuff... wouldn't it feel kind of constraining to feel like you have to blow on everything, even if it doesn't suit the song? I guess if that's you're thing you would compose with featuring your blowing in mind. 

Anyway, the thing that kind of opened my mind on it was all the recent Zorn albums on which he doesn't play, and some Pat Metheny albums where it's just like "this song is awesome, but fine as the solos are, are they needed? It feels obligatory because this is an album from a guitar player. Do you really need to set aside these bars for guitar solos?" Possibly bad examples depending on how favourably you view Zorn and Metheny as soloists, but the point remains.

Ever listened to a track where the leader is laying out and wondered "what if he never came back?" Miles voice on trumpet is indelible... but there are times where i'm listening to tracks of his and... he's not playing at this moment, and it's awesome, and it's still Miles. It's a very small step to "what if he didn't play on this track at all?"

Anyway, this is something that has always interested me.

 

 

 

 

 

[paul secor]

I came across this tidbit and thought it might be interesting to some:

http://web.musicaficionado.com/main.html#!/collection/Henry_Threadgills_Favorite_Recordings?compositeID=Henry_Threadgills_Favorite_Recordings

[paul secor]

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 0:56 AM, xybert said:

Love this album! For some reason i've gotten the impression that it was slightly underrated among Threadgill fans, although i'm not quite sure where i picked that up from.

I've always thought of it as being quite a cinematic album, although i'm not sure whether that will mean the same thing to me as it does to you (i'm not even really sure of what i mean myself).

Like others have noted, Grief is a highlight. I've always loved that bit that starts about halfway through Crea where there's that strumming guitar riff and then the horn comes in over the top. 

Regarding Threadgill not playing on a couple of tracks... different strokes, sincerely, but i've never had an issue with stuff like that with artists like Threadgill. I guess for some it would be like "why have a Sinatra album where he's not singing?" And i get that... the instrument(s) that you play and soloing are a huge part of jazz... but... case by case i guess. If say Hard-bop is your thing, i get that it's part of the language (although, even then it might be cool if sometimes the leader felt free to lay out on the occasional track). I just feel like, if you're a composer and you're coming up with stuff... wouldn't it feel kind of constraining to feel like you have to blow on everything, even if it doesn't suit the song? I guess if that's you're thing you would compose with featuring your blowing in mind. 

Anyway, the thing that kind of opened my mind on it was all the recent Zorn albums on which he doesn't play, and some Pat Metheny albums where it's just like "this song is awesome, but fine as the solos are, are they needed? It feels obligatory because this is an album from a guitar player. Do you really need to set aside these bars for guitar solos?" Possibly bad examples depending on how favourably you view Zorn and Metheny as soloists, but the point remains.

Ever listened to a track where the leader is laying out and wondered "what if he never came back?" Miles voice on trumpet is indelible... but there are times where i'm listening to tracks of his and... he's not playing at this moment, and it's awesome, and it's still Miles. It's a very small step to "what if he didn't play on this track at all?"

Anyway, this is something that has always interested me.

 

 

 

 

 

I think I may have a sense of where you're coming from saying that this album is "cinematic". When I listen to it, I find myself imagining things and scenes that I wouldn't usually be thinking about. I'm not sure if that's exactly what you meant by "cinematic", but that's what happens for me.

Another thing that just occurred to me - perhaps tied to your comment - is that Song Out of My Trees is less of an urban sounding album than some of Henry Threadgill's other records. I'm not sure whether it's the varied and unusual instrumentation or even the cover photo and the album title, but this record gives me a sense of being "worldly" (in the sense of stepping outside of urban confines).

"I just feel like, if you're a composer and you're coming up with stuff... wouldn't it feel kind of constraining to feel like you have to blow on everything, even if it doesn't suit the song?"

Good point. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by paul secor

[Guy Berger]

3 hours ago, paul secor said:

I think I may have a sense of where your coming from say that this album is "cinematic". When I listen to it, I find myself imagining things and scenes that I wouldn't usually be thinking about. I'm not sure if that's exactly what you meant by "cinematic", but that's what happens for me.

Another thing that just occurred to me - perhaps tied to your comment - is that Song Out of My Trees is less of an urban sounding album than some of Henry Threadgill's other records. I'm not sure whether it's the varied and unusual instrumentation or even the cover photo and the album title, but this record gives me a sense of being "worldly" (in the sense of stepping outside of urban confines).

"I just feel like, if you're a composer and you're coming up with stuff... wouldn't it feel kind of constraining to feel like you have to blow on everything, even if it doesn't suit the song?"

Good point. 

 

 

Do you think any of Henry's other music has the same "pastoral" feel?  "In for a Penny, In for a Pound" also has a "country" album cover and has a bit of a "country" feel.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Guy Berger

[paul secor]

2 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

Do you think any of Henry's other music has the same "pastoral" feel?  "In for a Penny, In for a Pound" also has a "country" album cover and has a bit of a "country" feel.

I haven't heard that one yet.

[jeffcrom]

I have many Threadgill albums, but not this one. This thread prompted me to order the Black Saint box, even though I already had half of the albums.

I obviously can't comment about this music specifically, but I'll make a general comment. The way I hear it, around 1990, Threadgill expanded from being a "jazz" composer (an adventurous one) to a composer with no boundaries whatsoever. I love the way that any element of any musical world is fair game to Threadgill, and how those different elements are combined in so many different ways.

[Chuck Nessa]

3 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

I have many Threadgill albums, but not this one. This thread prompted me to order the Black Saint box, even though I already had half of the albums.

I obviously can't comment about this music specifically, but I'll make a general comment. The way I hear it, around 1990, Threadgill expanded from being a "jazz" composer (an adventurous one) to a composer with no boundaries whatsoever. I love the way that any element of any musical world is fair game to Threadgill, and how those different elements are combined in so many different ways.

I think that impulse was always there - exhibit 1: Subtraction on Air Time.

[xybert]

On 9/13/2016 at 1:32 AM, paul secor said:

I think I may have a sense of where your coming from say that this album is "cinematic". When I listen to it, I find myself imagining things and scenes that I wouldn't usually be thinking about. I'm not sure if that's exactly what you meant by "cinematic", but that's what happens for me.

 

Yeah, that is partly it for me. It's like it evokes scenes from an imaginary movie. That, and the music is soundtrack-esque in some ways. But also, it's almost like the music is narrating a story, like it's an aural movie.

Edited September 15, 2016 by xybert

[xybert]

4 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

I have many Threadgill albums, but not this one. This thread prompted me to order the Black Saint box, even though I already had half of the albums.

I obviously can't comment about this music specifically, but I'll make a general comment. The way I hear it, around 1990, Threadgill expanded from being a "jazz" composer (an adventurous one) to a composer with no boundaries whatsoever. I love the way that any element of any musical world is fair game to Threadgill, and how those different elements are combined in so many different ways.

We can quibble about pre/post 1990 but, yeah, agreed. It's one of the reasons that i feel like Threadgill's music potentially has a lot of cross-over appeal for people that normally aren't in to Jazz as such. 

[paul secor]

I imagine (only Henry Threadgill knows for sure) that the impulse to break down boundaries in his music was always there. If you read the interviews, he certainly exposed himself to a wide variety of musics from a young age.

Edited September 15, 2016 by paul secor

[Guy Berger]

13 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

I think that impulse was always there - exhibit 1: Subtraction on Air Time.

Yup.  And certainly X-75 Vols 1 & 2 strongly anticipate a lot of the non-band experiments on Song Out of My Trees, Carry the Day, Makin' a Move as well as the two most recent Pi albums.