PONY POINDEXTER/BOOKER ERVIN

[robviti]

Thanks to all who have helped with some of my other discography questions. This one pertains to the compilation released as Gumbo! in 1999. I know that it contains 3 dates: Pony Poindexter's original Gumbo!, unreleased tracks from the session that produced Poindexter's Pony Poindexter Plays the Big Ones, and an unreleased session with Booker Ervin, Larry Young, and Jerry Thomas. What I don't know is this:

1) Who produced these sessions?

2) What does "Supervision by Ozzie Cadena" mean (as written on the back of the compilation)?

3) Where were these sessions recorded and by whom? Some sources say RVG at his Englewood Cliffs studio. Others say they were recorded in NYC, possibly by Ozzie.

Again, thanks in advance.

[Nate Dorward]

I don't have the answer to your questions but I thought I'd point out there's one terrible error on the release. The first track of the Young/Ervin session is credited to Poindexter as, if memory serves, "Absotively Posalutely". It's not of course: it's a Larry Young tune--"Backup", later recorded on Into Somethin'.

[robviti]

oh well, the listing for this cd on barnes & noble's website credits young as the composer for all 16 tracks!

[mikeweil]

1) Who produced these sessions?

2) What does "Supervision by Ozzie Cadena" mean (as written on the back of the compilation)?

3) Where were these sessions recorded and by whom? Some sources say RVG at his Englewood Cliffs studio. Others say they were recorded in NYC, possibly by Ozzie.

1) Ozzie Cadena produced all three of these sessions, the term supervisor means a similar occupation, but practically it was the same function.

2) see 1)

3) all three sessions were recorded by Rudy Vam Gelder at his Englewood Cliffs studio.

The titles from Poindexter's Gumbo LP were all composed by him.

The vocal tracks are the four previously unissued items from the January 31, 1963 session that produced the LP "Pony Poindexter Plays The Big Ones", a nice album (all instrumental) that has not yet been reissued in the U.S. but is available on a CD by the British BeatGoesPublic label, coupled with GumbO.

[robviti]

gracias!

[JohnS]

An interesting topic as I seem to have missed this cd entirely. I have the BGP reissue of "Plays The Big Ones" and "Gumbo", but find it rather disappointing.

My question is how are the Young/Ervin tracks? Should I buy on the strength of these.

[Stefan Wood]

Those tracks are the best part of the cd, John. So I would say yes.

[JohnS]

Thanks for that Stefan, very helpful.

[mikeweil]

I have the BGP reissue of "Plays The Big Ones" and "Gumbo", but find it rather disappointing.

May I ask why you find it disappointing? I enjoy Pony very much!

[JohnS]

I have the BGP reissue of "Plays The Big Ones" and  "Gumbo", but find it rather disappointing.

May I ask why you find it disappointing? I enjoy Pony very much!

Short tunes, not particularly suited to jazz interpretations. Pony doesn't dig too deep and there's too much of an easy listening feel to most of it. My opinion only, Mike

[mikeweil]

Short tunes, not particularly suited to jazz interpretations. Pony doesn't dig too deep and there's too much of an easy listening feel to most of it. My opinion only, Mike

Ironically, that reads almost literally like the criticism at the time of its first release; he writes in his autobiography how much that frustrated him. The jazz world hasn't changed much since then, in some respects. Not to blame you, that is.

[JohnS]

Mike, but Pony Express is something else if my memory isn't too hazy.

[mikeweil]

Pony Express is an all-star sax meeting:

Pony Poindexter, ss, as

Phil Woods, Gene Quill, Sonny Red Kyner, Eric Dolphy as

Dexter Gordon, Jimmy Heath, Sal Nistico ts

Pepper Adams bs

I may forget someone, too lazy to get up and fetch the CD ...

But thematic material isn't that much different from that on Gumbo. The latter was an attempt to refresh the New Orleans tradition in jazz, something the Marsalis clan and all the other talented players from the city achieved twenty years later. He was ahead of his time as far as this is concerned. The guys from New Orleans, like Danny Barker, got his message, but the critics back then didn't.

[Nate Dorward]

I used to have the disc, got rid of it a little while ago; I got it purely for the Ervin/Young tracks, which are OK but I wouldn't say they were more than OK. A not terribly good drummer, & Young & Ervin don't really work up a big rapport--in fact, Young often starts the tracks alone & then Ervin drops in later. The Poindexter tracks are OK but again didn't get me too excited. I wouldn't grab the disc unless you've already got all of Ervin & Young's A-list stuff. Sometimes there's good reasons why sessions are left in the can.

[brownie]

Up...

from Belgian TV, Booker (a rare video appearance) and Pony with Ted Curson, Nathan Davis, Kenny Drew, Jimmy Woode and Edgar Bateman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjEKjHM98hg