Serge Chaloff - Boston 1950 - Uptown

[jazztrain]

So, I'm listening to the Uptown Serge Chaloff "Boston 1950" album.  It includes four duets recorded at home with Chaloff and pianist Rollins Griffith.  The tunes are:

• Billie's Bounce
• Body and Soul
• Blue Serge
• Red Cross

The problem is that the tune identified as "Blue Serge" (#12 on the  CD) is not the Cherokee contrafact recorded under that name for Dial.  Rather, this tune sounds like it's based on "Stompin' at the Savoy."  Anyone notice this or have any insights on this?

[sonnymax]

I certainly hear what you hear, but the chord progressions for both songs is very similar. Stompin' follows the traditional A-A-B-A form, while Cherokee is a modified A1-A2-B-A2 progression. 

[JSngry]

The changes of the two are totally different. Sorry.

 

1 hour ago, jazztrain said:

this tune sounds like it's based on "Stompin' at the Savoy." 

It is.

[sonnymax]

13 hours ago, JSngry said:

The changes of the two are totally different. Sorry.

 

It is.

Yeah well, I tried. Shows you how much a Berklee education is worth. 

[jazztrain]

Sonnymax - They sound different to me.  BTW, we're extended neighbors.  Newtonville.

JSngry - I agree.  I tried to check some other tunes based on Stompin' at the Savoy (such as "Byas a Drink" by Don Byas, "Stuffy" by Coleman Hawkins, and "Relaxin' with Lee" by Charlie Parker), but none of them matched the Serge Chaloff variation.

My conclusion is that the tune was misidentified at some point, and the error has simply been repeated by others elsewhere.  None of the participants (Serge, his brother Richard, nor pianist Rollins Griffith) is around anymore.  Perhaps Chaloff just said let's play on the chords to "Stompin'..."   

 

[JSngry]

Stuffy is not based on Savoy.

[jazztrain]

Ok. I was misinformed. Part of it perhaps?

[JSngry]

Nope. It's got that one little chromatic thing in the bridge, but it's in a different place in serves a different function. Otherwise, I believe it's actually a Monk tune. I think?

[jazztrain]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Nope. It's got that one little chromatic thing in the bridge, but it's in a different place in serves a different function. Otherwise, I believe it's actually a Monk tune. I think?

You know, I thought that there was a connection when I wrote that.  I saw a few references on line to it being based on SATS and must have accepted it based on that phrase in the bridge.  Forget I brought up Stuffy.  

[sgcim]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:11 PM, jazztrain said:

So, I'm listening to the Uptown Serge Chaloff "Boston 1950" album.  It includes four duets recorded at home with Chaloff and pianist Rollins Griffith.  The tunes are:

• Billie's Bounce
• Body and Soul
• Blue Serge
• Red Cross

The problem is that the tune identified as "Blue Serge" (#12 on the  CD) is not the Cherokee contrafact recorded under that name for Dial.  Rather, this tune sounds like it's based on "Stompin' at the Savoy."  Anyone notice this or have any insights on this?

I just bought this incredible CD, and they're playing off the changes to "Savoy" like you and Jim thought.

[sgcim]

I just heard Fable of Mabel, and that stands up to Blue Serge and Boston Blow-Up as another excellent SC album. He wrote a lot of the tunes on this one, and they're all good. There's even one that Madame Chaloff co-arranged, entitled "Dzot".

You can hear the difference Richard Twardzik made in the group on the seven cuts that he plays on, and Johnny Williams was right, RT doesn't make the group swing as much as Russ Freeman does. Freeman also plays some excellent solos, as do Boots Musulli, Serge and Charlie Mariano.

There was a rivalry between the musicians of Boston and NYC during the 50s, with the Boston musicians claiming that NYC musicians were thrust into the limelight before they were ready musically, because of all the media coverage, and I'm beginning to think they might have been right. There was never a lack of hype in NYC...