BFT 234 Link & Discussion

[JSngry]

He did two for the label. I think they could both fit on a single disc? 

This cut is not really representative of either record, but nevertheless, both are fine and fun. And this cut alone is priceless. 

[Joe]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

This cut is not really representative of either record, but nevertheless, both are fine and fun. And this cut alone is priceless. 

There's "the rub" in some sense. But "worth the price of admission," as "they" "say."

[felser]

6 hours ago, JSngry said:

He did two for the label. I think they could both fit on a single disc? 

This cut is not really representative of either record, but nevertheless, both are fine and fun. And this cut alone is priceless. 

Total about 81 minutes, which is doable these days.  I'd buy it just for this cut alone.

[tkeith]

Track 01 - No idea what this is, but I absolutely love it.  Very clean recording -- you reallly hear each instrument on its own as well as the collective mix.  All sorts of varied percussion, and the guitarist does not sound like a "jazz" guy to me, and I think that's helpful, here, because he doesn't fall into guitar-player-patterns.  This all feels very organic.  Reminds me a touch of Embryo's record with Mal Waldron.  I don't feel like I've heard this before, and I like that.  The feel of the band reminds me a bit of the John Handy Quintet.  

Track 02 - It's different, but I don't care for the "math-y" feel of the rhythm.  It's not bad, just strikes me as... poppy?  Inorganic, I guess is a better way to put.  This the music a lot of musicians love to play because it challenges their mind, but I don't hear the gut, and that's what I'm looking for.  This doesn't put me off, it just doesn't reach me.  I'm at 2:16 and think a fade would be wonderful.  This goes on quite long for what it is, what it's doing.  I just want to hear Noel Fielding say, "What are you on about!?"  I made it, but I'm not happy about it.

Track 03 - Initial feel I thought Larry Young.  I want it to be Joe Henderson w/Larry Young.  It is not that.  I think it's honest, but it's not quite Big League.  Tenor play is not convincing me.  It could almost be Sam Rivers on an off day, but I'm just not hearing the ferocity.  Then, I did.  Then I thought I heard Elvin.  But none of this is right.  Not Elvin, but really wants to be, but doesn't have the poly-rhythms going.  Could be Sam Rivers.  I thought for sure that was Woody Shaw.  Weird guess -- could this be a Japanese band?  I know Hino can do Woody Shaw as well as anybody, but there's something in the rhythm of the tenor, I just don't think it's someone I know.

Track 04 - Mid-to-late 50s sound.  Straight ahead, but I'm not getting a clear peg on anybody.  Tenor is WAY hot in the mix.  Could be young Knepper on trombone, but I don't think these are guys I know.  Really like the pianist and the snappy drums (the breaks notwithstanding).

Track 05 - Could well be the band from track 1.  Pianist likes Mal Waldron (and who could blame 'em!).  Thinking somebody like Hal Galper that kind bridges that cerebral feel with an abstract flavor of the blues.  

Track 06 - Almost sounds like Jameel Moondoc, but I'm quite able to find that *thing* he does.  This is an interesting track.  It's got a rawness I like (I assume it's live, or at least direct-to-disc),  but it doesn't quite do what I'm thinking it will.  I like it, but it's confounding at the same time.  These guys are weird... in a good way.

Track 07 - Has a vaguely Zappa feel.  It doesn't offend me, but I've kind of lost the thread 5 minutes in.  It's a good feel, but it doesn't seem to go anywhere.  

Track 08 - Clean soprano sound, full and not squealy.  Very European feel to it.  If I could get that sound on the unemployment stick, I'd probably play it, too.  It's not Lacy, but it's that brand of timbre. Could be John Tchicai, but there are rns that don't hit me that way.  Likewise, could be Curtis Clark, but it's not quite right.  I like this, but I'd hit a limit on it fairly quickly, I think.  Very musical interplay, here.  And crystal clear sound.  

Track 09 - Bass clari is such a unique sound.  This just turned in an odd direction.  I like it, but in an odd way.  And now it's a tenor, not the bass clari.  The sound is odd.  The bass clari and tenor have been very upfront, not a lot of reverb.  The background is very muffled, with seemingly lots of reverb.  Tenor sounds a bit brutish for the environment.  Hits a bit like later Illinois Jacquet, in that sort of brutish vein.  Almost has moments like it's Johnny Griffin, but the sound is wrong.  Right ahead of 4:30 for instance.  Could be later Johnny, but seems to have a harder edge than that.  Seems like Johnny Grffin slowed down.  That should give me an obvious name, but it doesn't.  Certainly a beast of a player, though.

Track 10 - Well, that's Oliver Lake.  Can't say for sure if I have this.  This just works.  Not John Hicks.  Could be Curtis Clark.  Literally nothing about this misses for me.  Bassist is killin'!  I've liked a lot of this test, but nothing to this level.  This is damned near a perfect cut.

Track 11 - What's going on, here?  At first, I thought someone was vocalizing over flute.  Now it sounds like a wood flute.  Is that an effects pedal or something else going on?  Definitely a different vibe on this.  Towards that European end of things, but not in anyway that puts me off.  I feel like they're being honest and I'm buying it.  At times, that flute sounds like a cello or viola.

Track 12 - Very odd.  I like it.  Ellington adjacent.  Maybe Danny Bank on bari?  Or could be Mr. Blount's band.  Love that heavy fall of the bass.  Yeah, more of this, please.

Track 13 - Wow!  Levels on that last cut are WAY higher.  Good thing it's a trio cut!  Somebody out of that Barry Harris school.  Could be Billy Higgins, defitely getting that gallop vibe.  I don't think it's Billy, but that gallop is there.  Maybe Farnsworth.  Hmmm... maybe Alan Dawson, at that.  Nice cut, nice tune.  It's got the history, but it's a unique song.  

This might be my favorite test this year. [Come on, Tim, Felser!  Whatdya got!?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe]

Thank you Thom!

Gotta trust your ears on track 3. I think I am in the same boat with you w/r/t the tenor player.

The pianist on 4 is, if not household name, a highly regarded player. Still alive, too, and still putting out records.

Not George Duke on 7, but, now that you mention it, I hear that "thing" too.

Griffin is an interesting reference point for 9. There is a universe in which there are less than 6 degrees of separation between JG and this player. The common factor is another bandleader.

Bingo on the alto on 10.

13: "Barry Harris school" for sure. And I agree: its about the composition and its subtle departures from bop orthodoxy.

[JSngry]

24 minutes ago, tkeith said:

Track 03 - Initial feel I thought Larry Young.  I want it to be Joe Henderson w/Larry Young.  It is not that.  I think it's honest, but it's not quite Big League.  Tenor play is not convincing me.  It could almost be Sam Rivers on an off day, but I'm just not hearing the ferocity.  Then, I did.  Then I thought I heard Elvin.  But none of this is right.  Not Elvin, but really wants to be, but doesn't have the poly-rhythms going.  Could be Sam Rivers.  I thought for sure that was Woody Shaw.  Weird guess -- could this be a Japanese band?  I know Hino can do Woody Shaw as well as anybody, but there's something in the rhythm of the tenor, I just don't think it's someone I know. 

This is a perfect example of what happens when you think you know what you should be hearing, and the context in which it  should exist, only it's not really that that at all. 👁️‍🗨️ 

Still trying to break that habit myself, wish me luck!!! Objectivity is a bitch!!! 😂😂😂😂😂

Oh, another random guess on #1 - Tommy Tedesco? 

[tkeith]

Fair point, Jim.

 

[Joe]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

This is a perfect example of what happens when you think you know what you should be hearing, and the context in which it  should exist, only it's not really that that at all. 👁️‍🗨️ 

Still trying to break that habit myself, wish me luck!!! Objectivity is a bitch!!! 😂😂😂😂😂

Oh, another random guess on #1 - Tommy Tedesco? 

Nope, not Tommy Tedesco. Less Hollywood, more South Central. 

[JSngry]

Hmmm...I could throw a few names out there, but nobody that you haven't known about for a while.

So we wait! 

[felser]

19 hours ago, tkeith said:

This might be my favorite test this year. [Come on, Tim, Felser!  Whatdya got!?]

We shall see..., but agreed this was a good one.

[webbcity]

Coming in late as usual, and I haven't looked at any responses yet but will do so as soon as I post this. These are notes I took as I listened...

Track 1 - Off to an ominous start, and I mean that in a good way... the mood is being set, it's mysterious, and I dig it. I really like the guitarist, and there are some familiar sounds here but I don't think I can name names. Once this settles into the 3 feel it's very nice indeed. Still digging the guitarist, but also wishing for some over-the-barline phrasing rather than everything "fitting neatly," so to speak. The contrast of the faster & slower sections is nice. Is that a celeste? Also must mention that I'm a big fan of the bassist's playing and sound. Overall an intriguing track, very curious to know who it is.

Track 2 - Wow! This is different. Me likey. Sounds almost proggy. I do enjoy some good odd meters. Great group sound, love the keys and the repeating motif they keep coming back to. Yeah, this is excellent... would love to hear more from this group.

Track 3 - Right off the bat I'm getting hints of Larry Young, but that could just be because I'm not familiar with more than a handful of organists. This tenor solo builds really nicely... digging this a lot. Not sure I'm familiar with this player but I could be surprised. The drummer is driving the hell outta this. Wait, Woody Shaw? Okay, and that IS definitely Larry Young. Ah! It's Buddy Terry... this is an album I need. "Natural Soul." Nice one!

Track 4 - I like the instrumentation & arrangement of the horns. The trombonist gets to shine a bit here. In fact I think the bone solo is my favorite, though the trumpet & tenor solos are most excellent. Some really interesting stuff in that piano solo too actually, I definitely want to know who that is! Rock solid rhythm section. Fantastic cut!

Track 5 - Again, it's nice when the players can set a mood, and it's happening here. I like the openness and the darkness. Having said that... I'm not really grabbed by this. As a group they're all on the same page, but the piano solo is not saying a lot to me. But that's just me.

Track 6 - I should know this bass player. Well done on the intro. The bassist & drummer are like hand and glove here. Hmmm... what does that make the horns, head and hat? The trumpet player is a research scientist, and this is my kind of research. The alto player...okay, let's stop with the metaphors. The alto player is killer! The Ornette influence is strong here, but other elements are at play too. Boy... I should know who this is. And this bass player, yo! What is going on here?? I really hope someone else has already ID'd this because I really don't want to wait another week. This is a five star track for me, no question.

Track 7 - The chromatic motif is very cool and I like the rubbery sound the bass player gets. It's always interesting how often the best ideas are the simplest ones. I mean, there's almost nothing to this tune, but it's perfect. It almost sounds like it plays itself. Honestly I don't even think they need that 2nd, groovy section! I don't like that nearly as much, personally. Great feeling in the drums. And overall you can hear they're having a blast. But see, this went actually in a really different direction from what I expected. Some of the stuff they get into after 4:30 doesn't really fit with some of what came earlier, to me. Or maybe it's the stuff I like that doesn't fit? Anyway, overall there's some great things happening here but I'm personally a little divided on this cut.

Track 8 - Ah! Now this is an easy one, as soon as Wayne came in I knew it. It's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAOB2Xx-hiw ...and it's fantastic. I didn't discover this album myself until relatively recently but boy is it DAMN good. Two old friends pushing each other into new territory. Five stars!

Track 9 - You had me at bass clarinet. Oh! But there's so much more... sounds like quite a large group in fact. Hmmm. I'm having a bit of trouble latching onto this though. Either it feels directionless, or it's user error, which is possible. I'll probably be shocked at the reveal but this one isn't doing a lot for me. Feels kind of like several different conversations happening at the same time.

Track 10 - My first reaction to the alto sound: Arthur Blythe? No, it's not him though. The pianist is standing out to me here. Yep. Definitely digging the pianist, big time. Truly free with the material. The bassist has incredible chops but the actual solo ideas are not that interesting to me. I'm sure I'll regret saying most of this!

Track 11 - What a great flute sound. Almost sounds like a wooden flute? Not that I'm an expert. This is interesting and I'm impressed with the musicians though it might not be something I personally would play a lot. Still, I think it's very well done.

Track 12 - Love the intro, the way the rhythm section sets it up and the horns feel like punctuation. Damn, what a bari sound! I can already tell I like this. Kinda sounds like early Sun Ra. Some excellent improvising all around and I love the feel. Thumbs up from me on this one.

Track 13 - Great trio sound, very solid rhythm section and the pianist is tasty. I want to say that's Billy Higgins on drums? Should I say that? Hmmm... no, maybe not. But a very respectable track nonetheless. Good stuff!

Joe, thanks so much for a REALLY enjoyable BFT! Really anxious for the reveal on many of these. Appreciate your efforts getting this music to us!

[Joe]

26 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Coming in late as usual, and I haven't looked at any responses yet but will do so as soon as I post this. These are notes I took as I listened...

Track 1 - Off to an ominous start, and I mean that in a good way... the mood is being set, it's mysterious, and I dig it. I really like the guitarist, and there are some familiar sounds here but I don't think I can name names. Once this settles into the 3 feel it's very nice indeed. Still digging the guitarist, but also wishing for some over-the-barline phrasing rather than everything "fitting neatly," so to speak. The contrast of the faster & slower sections is nice. Is that a celeste? Also must mention that I'm a big fan of the bassist's playing and sound. Overall an intriguing track, very curious to know who it is.

Track 2 - Wow! This is different. Me likey. Sounds almost proggy. I do enjoy some good odd meters. Great group sound, love the keys and the repeating motif they keep coming back to. Yeah, this is excellent... would love to hear more from this group.

Track 3 - Right off the bat I'm getting hints of Larry Young, but that could just be because I'm not familiar with more than a handful of organists. This tenor solo builds really nicely... digging this a lot. Not sure I'm familiar with this player but I could be surprised. The drummer is driving the hell outta this. Wait, Woody Shaw? Okay, and that IS definitely Larry Young. Ah! It's Buddy Terry... this is an album I need. "Natural Soul." Nice one!

Track 4 - I like the instrumentation & arrangement of the horns. The trombonist gets to shine a bit here. In fact I think the bone solo is my favorite, though the trumpet & tenor solos are most excellent. Some really interesting stuff in that piano solo too actually, I definitely want to know who that is! Rock solid rhythm section. Fantastic cut!

Track 5 - Again, it's nice when the players can set a mood, and it's happening here. I like the openness and the darkness. Having said that... I'm not really grabbed by this. As a group they're all on the same page, but the piano solo is not saying a lot to me. But that's just me.

Track 6 - I should know this bass player. Well done on the intro. The bassist & drummer are like hand and glove here. Hmmm... what does that make the horns, head and hat? The trumpet player is a research scientist, and this is my kind of research. The alto player...okay, let's stop with the metaphors. The alto player is killer! The Ornette influence is strong here, but other elements are at play too. Boy... I should know who this is. And this bass player, yo! What is going on here?? I really hope someone else has already ID'd this because I really don't want to wait another week. This is a five star track for me, no question.

Track 7 - The chromatic motif is very cool and I like the rubbery sound the bass player gets. It's always interesting how often the best ideas are the simplest ones. I mean, there's almost nothing to this tune, but it's perfect. It almost sounds like it plays itself. Honestly I don't even think they need that 2nd, groovy section! I don't like that nearly as much, personally. Great feeling in the drums. And overall you can hear they're having a blast. But see, this went actually in a really different direction from what I expected. Some of the stuff they get into after 4:30 doesn't really fit with some of what came earlier, to me. Or maybe it's the stuff I like that doesn't fit? Anyway, overall there's some great things happening here but I'm personally a little divided on this cut.

Track 8 - Ah! Now this is an easy one, as soon as Wayne came in I knew it. It's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAOB2Xx-hiw ...and it's fantastic. I didn't discover this album myself until relatively recently but boy is it DAMN good. Two old friends pushing each other into new territory. Five stars!

Track 9 - You had me at bass clarinet. Oh! But there's so much more... sounds like quite a large group in fact. Hmmm. I'm having a bit of trouble latching onto this though. Either it feels directionless, or it's user error, which is possible. I'll probably be shocked at the reveal but this one isn't doing a lot for me. Feels kind of like several different conversations happening at the same time.

Track 10 - My first reaction to the alto sound: Arthur Blythe? No, it's not him though. The pianist is standing out to me here. Yep. Definitely digging the pianist, big time. Truly free with the material. The bassist has incredible chops but the actual solo ideas are not that interesting to me. I'm sure I'll regret saying most of this!

Track 11 - What a great flute sound. Almost sounds like a wooden flute? Not that I'm an expert. This is interesting and I'm impressed with the musicians though it might not be something I personally would play a lot. Still, I think it's very well done.

Track 12 - Love the intro, the way the rhythm section sets it up and the horns feel like punctuation. Damn, what a bari sound! I can already tell I like this. Kinda sounds like early Sun Ra. Some excellent improvising all around and I love the feel. Thumbs up from me on this one.

Track 13 - Great trio sound, very solid rhythm section and the pianist is tasty. I want to say that's Billy Higgins on drums? Should I say that? Hmmm... no, maybe not. But a very respectable track nonetheless. Good stuff!

Joe, thanks so much for a REALLY enjoyable BFT! Really anxious for the reveal on many of these. Appreciate your efforts getting this music to us!

Thanks so much for the play-by-play!

I will be very curious to read reactions to the reveal on #1.

I like #2 as well (with reservations about the drummer). The performance may not feature a lot of improvisation per se, but I understand what the keyboardist is doing as an extension of what an earlier generation of B3 players like Shirley Scott did with timbre/tone color. 

Damn straight about the drummer on #3. 

#7: "And overall you can hear they're having a blast." Thanks to YouTube, you can see that they're having a blast, too. (Link to be provided with the reveal.)

The pianist on #10 has not been ID'ed, but they're a pretty major figure (IMO, anyway).

Double trombones feature on #12, which dies suggest Sun Ra. But it's not! 

[webbcity]

You know, I did wonder about Jarrett and Haden on #7 but I thought that was too obvious!  

[Joe]

1 hour ago, webbcity said:

You know, I did wonder about Jarrett and Haden on #7 but I thought that was too obvious!  

Trust me: I am not above obviousness! 

[felser]

4 hours ago, Joe said:

Trust me: I am not above obviousness! 

So I was correct on #7?

[Joe]

48 minutes ago, felser said:

So I was correct on #7?

Confirmed!