eBay fraud

[Jim R]

Is it just me, or are the number of blatantly obvious fraudulent listings at ebay getting out of control? I posted on someone else's thread (involving a complaint about a transaction with a bad ending) recently, where I described a situation where I e-mailed a seller about a valuable ($10K) vintage guitar. I knew something was a little bit fishy about the listing, and without too much trouble I soon discovered that this guy had copied some photos and information from dealers' websites, and pretended that he actually owned the instruments he was listing. Not many people would have been able to detect this, I'm sure, but I do a lot of "window shopping" for vintage guitars on the internet and it became obvious what this guy was doing. What was even more pathetic and ludicrous was that he could barely write coherently in english, while claiming that he was located on London. At any rate, I just shrugged it all off and figured this kind of shit probably happens once in a blue moon. Well... I did one of my routine ebay searches this morning, and I think this genius is still at work. I went to an item that sounded interesting, and found that the item in question was a guitar that I had just seen sell less than a week ago. Same photos, same description, unmistakably the same guitar. The guitar was sold just a few days ago (for $3,333) by a seller in Iowa. Now it's up for sale again... from a seller in... LONDON, who is... NEWLY REGISTERED! He's already gotten one bid, for about $400. It's a 3 day auction.

Anybody know if there's a quick way to nail this guy? I tried a search for eBay fraud into (hoping to find a phone number someplace), but found nothing very concrete. Ironically, I live about two miles from eBay's world headquarters, but I've never had a bad transaction, and have only had slow and inadequate communication with eBay in years past with regard to any questions I've asked via e-mail. In the meantime, I'm thinking about warning the person who bid, but I even have doubts that they actually exist...

[Dan Gould]

Jim,

There was an article in the Times not long ago which described a group of self-described Ebay vigilantes who try to spot fraudulent auctions and scare the unwitting bidders away. Amazingly, ebay opposes their efforts, and if I recall correctly, have even threatened their status as ebay members, all for doing what your instincts are telling you to do.

I say, contact the would-be buyer as soon as possible.

As far as whether or not fraudulent ebay auctions are out of control, I have no idea. My father is a total technophobe, still uses a non-electric typewriter, and he's constantly warning me about the things he reads about auction fraud-he thinks its endemic, he'd probably even go so far as to say that more than half of all listings are fake. But I always remind him that I never bid very much, and I've never heard of someone listing an album they don't actually have, so the worst thing that happens are poorly graded LPs.

And, I remind him that its high end items like vintage guitars or "new" electronics that tend to be fraudulent, not jazz LPs.

[Jim R]

I just e-mailed the second bidder (the bid was over $700), who had a record of 22 transactions. I gave him the URL to the completed item page for the guitar that sold two days ago. The first bidder, like the seller, had a "0", so I doubt they were legit. At any rate, as soon as I finished sending the e-mail, I tried to go back to the item page and found that it's already been pulled. No big surprise there. I'm sure this guy will resurface before long. Hopefully by then I'll have some ideas as to how to promptly report the m.f.

Dan, I guess I can understand eBay's concern for vigilanteism. Proper channels and all that. Still, I hope there are (or will be) some kind of reporting systems that are reliable and quick (at least quick in terms of the initial "report"- obviously you can't nab somebody like this quickly without some planning).

[Dan Gould]

Jim,

I don't think its ebay worried about proper channels, its ebay denying their problems and resenting people who are trying to improve things but because they call attention to the problem, the bosses don't appreciate it.

Its kind of contradictory-they want a "community" of users, but resent it when honest members try to point out the frauds.

[connoisseur series500]

You did the right thing Jim by contacting that bidder. I would have done the same.

I once contacted a bidder who was bidding up a hefty price for a cd which was about to be reissued as a Conn. I told him that he would be paying a big price for something that would be a lot cheaper in a few weeks.

We became friendly and I invited him to this board.

His name is Evan.

[Harold_Z]

All I've ever bought on ebay were cds and books. I wouldn't buy any instrument or amp without playing it first. Man - the thought of that scares me.

Jim , I'm very often suspicious of that "first" bid. It very often looks bogus.

[Jazzmoose]

Jim,

There was an article in the Times not long ago which described a group of self-described Ebay vigilantes who try to spot fraudulent auctions and scare the unwitting bidders away. Amazingly, ebay opposes their efforts, and if I recall correctly, have even threatened their status as ebay members, all for doing what your instincts are telling you to do.

I used to hang (electronically speaking, of course) with a group of these types, and eBay REALLY gives them a rough time. If eBay spent half the time working to stop the fraudulent users that they spent laying the law down on the people who are trying to make things better, they'd be a lot better off. But eBay is afraid that if they do anything they won't be able to claim that they're "just the marketplace" and will become liable for the fraud. I hate to break it to them, but they're fooling themselves if they really think they're going to dodge that bullet forever...

[Jazzmoose]

Jim, what you did is called "auction interference" and is in violation of eBay rules. If eBay finds out, they can (and they often do this!) suspend your account. I'm saying this just as a FYI thing, not because I think you did anything wrong. There's a major difference between "against the rules" and "wrong"; as far as I'm concerned, ya done good. Just something to keep in mind...

[Jazzmoose]

His name is Evan.

So he's your fault!

[Jim Alfredson]

Yeah, the Pro Audio section of eBay is rife with scams, too. If I'm considering buying anything of any worth, I email the seller first and ask some questions and see what his response is. Usually the scammers don't reply. Or if they do reply, the English is terrible and their lack of knowledge about the product really shows.

I have never bought anything from 0 feedback users. I don't care if it's the best deal on the planet, I'll wait until they have some feedback under their belts.

Oh, and if it's a really high priced item, after I email I ask to call them. I want to talk to the person face to face. I haven't been scammed yet.