tkeith

I knew nothing of this record and very little of Tyrone. I had him on the Larry Young stuff in the Mosaic box, then purchased a collection from someone, which included Horace's THE JODY GRIND. I knew nothing of the record, but picked up on Tyrone right away. I just love the rawness of his playing. Anyway, I recently happened upon a copy of this and, being a certified TW fan, was not disappointed in the least. Yes, it's sloppy, nasty, loose, and aggressive. That's precisely what I love about it. Now if we could only know what became of Tyrone.

True enough, but I gotta say, Budd's my guy -- I'd have gotten him either way (see answers for BFT #55). I wish more people dug that guy, he sort of gets forgotten. I'm ticked that I got Billy Mitchell on #14, but not #15... how lame is that?

Wow! Shocked to find out that was Moody. I knew the voice wasn't Lovano. I love Moody and have loved him every time I've seen him, but I really thought the horn player on that was struggling with both the concept and his horn, two claims I could never envision making about Moody. Seems I was right about Marsh after all. Well, I guess that at least earns me a towel to wipe the egg of the Moody mistake off my face. ;D

Standard disclaimer: Haven't read yet, this is what I hear. Jack, thanks for including me on this one. This is proving to be a great exercise for my ears. Track #1: Hawk, for sure. I want to say Thad Jones on trumpet, but I'm far from confident on that one. Don't know the piano player -- hear pieces of lots of guys in there. No clue what the tune is. For some weird reason, drummer reminds me of Papa Jo, but I don't think it's him. Track #2: This is fun. Soprano -- no idea. No question on the tenor... MAN! He's *so* baaaaad! I *think* Cannonball on alto. Pepper on bari. Soprano is going to piss me off. Almost sounds like Joe Henderson playing soprano, which is something I'm not aware that he ever did. Something Pete LaRoca-ish about the drums. Track #3: Love this tune. Always hear Curtis Fuller on Meet the Jazztet when I hear this. No clue who this singer is. Recognize the alto, but can't place him... oh! That's Art Pepper. Arrangement is a touch stiff, but I'll guess Quincy Jones arrangement. Track #4: Don't like the recording -- too compressed. First impressions of of alto player are that it's James Carter. Sound is more shrill than James to me, though. Almost like Bunky Green. Seems like they're going for an old, funky blues feel, but in a sterile, late-80's studio environment. It's not Bunky... not enough taste... not James, not enough chops. Maybe it's just me, but this has all the soul of Dasani water. Track #5: Everything 4 lacked for me, this has in the first 11 seconds. Falling In Love With Love. Early impressions are that it's Oliver Nelson on tenor, but the low-end of the horn is too bold... Budd Johnson? No idea on the bone, but I'd say he's white. I'm sticking with Budd Johnson on tenor. Drums are confounding me... I'm leaning Roy Haynes at times, but on the straight feel... no. Very crisp snare sound -- almost like Philly Joe. Dunno. Track #6: Tenor in the right channel sounds more modern. In fact, they both do, but they play with too much soul to be any of the "young lions". I think this is something Red Prysock (sp?) used to play. I think these guys are a generation removed from this. Not Buddy Tate or Jacquet, but still honest enough to get away with it. It's fun as hell. It has everything a James Carter/Josh Redman shootout lacks. Tenor in the left channel is very familiar. You've stumped me. Track #7: Clifford Jordan on tenor. What a beautiful tone. Guy could throw away a bop line like it was Chopsticks. Awesome. Not sure who the alto is, but he's over his head following Clifford. Played a line almost like Strozier in there, but the tone is too bright to be FS... and this is modern. Is this maybe the record with Freddie Redd? Not sure on the trumpet, but I dig the hell out of him. Could that be Sickler? He always surprises me. Sounds like Ben Riley's touch on drums. I'm going to pull one out of my butt here; George Duvivier on bass? Track #8: There you go. I remember this growing up. Charlie Rouse on tenor. Can't remember the name of this damned tune. Man... I'm positive it's Rouse, but it sounds like a Golson tune, and that's messing with. Maybe one of the sides with Howard McGee? Wait a minute... these phones are messing with me -- I know what that is. That's Sonny Clark's record, Leapin' and Lopin'. Billy Higgins... Tommy Turrentine... one of the standard BN bassists... I think Butch Warren. Forget which tune... I love Melody For C on that... and Deep in a Dream with Ike Quebec is great, too. Track #9: If You Could See Me Now. Very brassy sound. Not a guy I know well. No idea. Seems like the tenor is somebody Lovano has listened to a lot -- very similar vibrato to what Joe uses. Track #10: This is weird. Sounds very fusion-y, but I'd swear that's Warne Marsh on tenor. Sounds a bit like Faddis on trumpet, but not sure. Arrangement is very busy, like some of the Manuel De Sica stuff with the That Jones/Mel Lewis band. On second listen, I'm doubting the Marsh pick. I know the sound, but I think he's out of his element... could even pass for Charles Lloyd, but not sloppy enough... I'll stick with Marsh and take my beating. Track #11: The sound is masking something... this sounds kind of studied to me. There's too much Coltrane influence in this. I'm not loving the guy's tone... seems kind of forced and a little sloppy. Guy can play his ass off and has listened a lot. But the story is not there, to my ear. This would be great to see live, but doesn't really pull it off on a recording. I'm going to say this is early Lovano. A-ha! Alan Dawson, so this *is* a private collection piece. Track #12: No idea. Track #13: Sounds like Yusef on tenor. Maybe Nancy Wilson on vocals. Track #14: Vernell Fournier on drums. My first guess was Sonny Criss on alto, but I'm starting to lean more towards somebody like Gigi Gryce. Guy has sick bop chops. I'll stay with Criss, but I'm wrong. Track #15: El Gaucho. Could be Stanley Cowell, but seems too busy for SC. I'll stick with Stanley, but there are two pianos. Not sure who the second might be... Kenny Barron? Wow... this kicked my ass, Jack. Thanks for including me. Now to read and see how bad I suck.

Track #8: Better feel right off the bat. West Coaster, but a good one. I don't think Getz -- meatier tone to me -- but I like him. No idea on the guitar. Man... I'm sucking big time on disc 2. Track #9: Another heavily compressed recording. Right off the bat, the tenor has a modern, "recordable" sound. I'm seeing a glossy cover with a pretty picture on the front. This isn't reaching me a bit. This falls into that category of Jazz that I find really frustrates me. I'd guess Marlon Jordan. It's part Miles, part Kenny Wheeler, and I'd much rather hear either of *them*. Man... this left me really cold. Track #10: Road Song. Sounds like Wes himself (or maybe Benson). Billy Higgins on drums. It's very lounge-y, but I dig it nonetheless. Sounds flashier than Wes, I'm starting to lean more toward Benson (Higgins helps that decision). Don't care for the bass, a bit. Track #11: Rabbit. Cootie Williams? No idea on the guitar. Sounds like maybe a Strayhorn tune. Sam Woodyard. By association, I'll say Jimmy Woode on bass. If that's not Ellington on piano, it's an uncanny imitation. HEHEheheh! Love that banging at both ends of the piano. HEEEEheheh! Glad to hear this come back into my neighborhood. Track #12: No clue. I'd guess Fats Waller on piano. I hear tones of Ellington and Fatha Hines, but not the balls of either. Track #13: I think it's Fred Wesley. Why does the bone work so damned well in this stuff? Sounds like the real guys revisiting what they once did. It's real, but lacks the grit of the original. Track #14: Always was a sucker for the Rhodes. Makes me want to watch movies with Lalo Shiffrin sound tracks. Still can't get past the electric bass, though. I'm going to go crazy here and guess Cedar Walton. The ideas seem too grounded in the tradition to be somebody like Chick Corea to me. I'm trying to hear the lines as they'd sound on acoustic, and I keep coming back to Cedar. No idea who else we're dealing with. Maybe Guillerme Franco on percussion? Hope I'm not out-thinking myself, here. Track #15: The piano seems very Bill Evans influenced to me, but the writing is very Vince Guiraldi. I'll go with Vince. Not sure who the guitarist is. Man... disc 2 was a bitch.

Standard "I haven't read, yet," disclaimer. Track #1: Eeesh... reminds me of Wednesday afternoons visiting my grandmother when I was little. That said, I wish *my* varitone would generate a tone that clean! I'd guess Eddie Harris, but sounds too stiff and... well, lame, to be Eddie. I take that back, the end makes me certain that it's Eddie... bad Eddie, but Eddie. Track #2: Everything about the last one that didn't work, does about this. I think it's Freddie. First impressions on the tenor is that it's Joe Henderson. As the swing feel starts, I'm leaning Mobley, but too much Coltrane influence for me to be confident... I'll stick with Joe, but I'm not all that confident. This one is tough. I think that' McCoy on piano, but I'm hearing some Cedar Walton in there... almost like Walton playing like McCoy, but the phrasing is *very* McCoy. I love this tune, though. The arrangement seems a little incomplete in terms of harmonies, but that bari is knocking me out. This reminds me a bit of Tolliver's PLIGHT, only earlier; the less harmonically complex portions of the arrangement sound like some of Horace Silver's larger groups to my ear. Me likey. No idea on the drummer, though the sound is straight Blue Note. Track #3: I say that's my boy Chet. For every reason in the world, I should NOT like his singing, but I just can't get enough of it. Who wrote the lyrics, Chauncey Gardner? Recording is uber-compressed... almost ECM-ish. Don't care for the rhythm section at all -- they bring nothing. Track #4: Nice sound. Clean, happy feel. I think it's an older player I'm less familiar with, but there's something Miles-like about the attack. I'll go with a crazy guess and say Ira Sullivan. Bass seems very hot (on the phones), and the mix in general is heavily weighted to the right channel. I know the drummer, but can't place him. Beautiful muted tone on the trumpet. Track #5: Recording is WAAAY too hot. Not doing it for me... putting me right to sleep. This overly compressed recording style is a huge turn-off. I'll give the guitarist credit for not drowning himself in effects. This reminds me of Art Farmer's very commercial period in the late 70s, minus the underlying soul that AF brought to the table. Track #6: Big Al, you're killing me! What happened to Jimmy Jones?! Not sure I can make it through this one. No idea. Track #7: My first impression is Des. It's hard to say because he's so buried in the mix. Maybe Herb Geller? You're killin' me brother... I'll reiterate, it reminds me of those afternoons at my grandmother's house in the 70s... Muzak piped in from atop Mount Washington. Makes me want to check the sharpness of the razors in the medicine chest.

Thanks for the kudos on Jimmy Jones. One caveat: You'll notice both my posts were edited. I typed, "Jimmy Johnson" in both, but didn't catch it till the second post came up. Definitely had him though -- love him. Other than Stray, did Duke ever let anybody else sit in that chair? It *WAS* Billy Mitchell! I'll be damned! Thanks, this was great.

Eh, what the hell. I decided to finish disc one. Track 09 - Recognize the tune, but can't think of the title. Just not sure who this is. Don't like the vibes at all... very cluttered. Track 10 - This is nice, but doesn't really grab me. Can't quite put my finger on why. Piano seems too busy during the guitar solo. Track 11 - I think this is a Horace Silver tune. Reminds me of the record in the late 80s with Red Holloway. Electric bass - the bane of my existence. Don't like the tenor at all. I'm going say Mike Brecker, because it totally rubs me. Plays his ass off, but it has nothing to do with the music. Egad that man frustrates me. Not sure about the trumpet... sounds too mellow to be Randy B (whom I *do* like). If this is Horace's band, it's from a period I'm not that familiar with (post Jody Grind). Oh yeah, that's Horace. Don't care for the drums at all... that 70's tinny disco sound. Don't need to hear that again. You know, that could double for the Barney Miller theme. Track 12 - Silveresque arrangement, but I don't recognize the tune. Could be Lee, but doesn't sound strong enough to me. Can't quite put my finger on the piano player. Clifford Jordan on tenor. Could that have been Blue Mitchell on trumpet. Aw, man! Clifford is so *baaaad*! Oh! Wait a minute, I know this. This is Take Twelve. Can't remember the tune name. Lee, Clifford... Barry Harris on piano, heck that's obvious now. Louis Hayes (that's from memory)... bass... either Watkins or Cranshaw. Gonna have to cue that one up again soon. Track 13 - Oh yeah! Ben, Budd Johnson and Hawk. Can't remember the title for the life of me. LOVE this! You Dirty Dog, or something silly like that. Jimmy Jones on piano, I think. Budd takes the first story. Man, *he* was a baaaad man. If you can find OFF THE WALL, grab it. Roy! Get excited little man! Huh hehe!!! I love this s**t! Hawk. Is that Kenny Clarke? Aaah, Ben. Speak, baby, speak. Track 14 - I know this. Gorgeous tone. Damnit! I have this! I was listening to this a couple of months back. This hurts!!! Is this Billy Mitchell? It's great, whatever it is. Man... I *know* this guy! Unconscious! Plays like Hartman sings. Even sounds a little Golsonesque. I'm going to stick with Billy Mitchell. Man, that was beautiful. Track 15 - This sounds like a fun recording, but I'm not placing anybody (I'm still in therapy after the last one). This has to be one of those all-star session recordings; drummer is just slugging it out. This is the kind of music my house was inundated with growing up. Almost sounds like Papa Joe on drums, but too heavy. I think this is probably a bunch of those guys that never really made it in bulk into my collection. Maybe Frank Wess or somebody like that. Track 16 - Nice arrangement. What the hell is that tune. Harold Arlen? Ah! The Second Time Around. Oh! I know this. That's Bill Evans. I think this is on that Fantasy record with the terrible cover. Great personnel; Harold Land, Ray Brown, Philly Joe; but it just doesn't work (though this track is great). I remember the other Bill Evans kind of ripping that recording in his Downbeat blindfold test. He back-pedaled a bit when they revealed what it was, but I agree with him; given the personnel on that date, there's just something missing.

I'm only through disc 1 part 1, but I'm going to have to do this in sections. I haven't read the thread, yet, I'm going to see how I do first. Thanks extended to Chas for hipping me to the availability of these files. Track 1 -- No idea. Sounds a bit like Dizzy's band, but the trumpet doesn't have Dizzy's chops. I like the arrangement, especially the bari. Playing is a tad sloppy, so I'm thinking a second tier band. Track 2 -- Sounds like Maynard's band with Kamuca to me. No idea what the record is. Track 3 -- Ellington, Hodges... I think late 50's. Sounds like Jimmy Jones on piano. Very nice. Track 4 -- Not entirely sure. Sounds like Phil Woods on alto, so I'm wondering if it might be Quincy's band. Didn't like the tenor at all. The band on the whole is rather stiff... just didn't swing. Track 5 -- I recognize this, but this style is my weakest area (notwithstanding fusion). No clue. I'd guess and older, (don't crucify me for this) white, big band. Track 6 -- Johnny Griffin for sure. Maybe the Clarke-Boland band. I love it, whatever it is. Track 7 -- Oh yeah, baby. Beautiful. That's Benny Golson. I gonna say Blakey. Not sure on the trumpet... maybe Bill Hardman? Comping sounded like Cedar Walton, but the solo did not. Not sure. Track 8 -- Jimmy Heath's Gemini. That's from Triple Threat. Julius Watkins, for sure. Freddie Hubbard (very GOOD Freddie)... hmmm... Bobby Timmons? Oh no, that's Walton. I'm pretty sure one of his brothers was on this... Tootie? Not sure about the bass. This cut really reminds me of Mohawk from J.J. Inc. Hope to listen to more tomorrow and post what I think on it. Hope I didn't make a complete fool of myself, but I'm pretty confident on the last 3.

By web-based do you mean streaming or downloadable ? Several BFTs have been downloadable , including one you can still get in on if you're quick about it >>click<< That's one option, another would be a web-based player. I guess I was thinking of the latter. I know most folks (myself included) don't have their "A" system hooked up to the computer, and I just wasn't sure how much of an issue that'd be.

Just out of curiosity -- I read the FAQ for the BFT and saw nothing about this question. Has anyone considered doing an online (web-based) BFT? I'm sure hardcore audiophiles will reject that notion outright, but given the limits of commercially available CD-R technology, it may not be that extreme a difference. Either way, I'm interested, but I'd like to get my feet a little wetter around here before signing up.

Thanks John. How could I forget that both groups are from Chicago... I still have a lot tp learn.... Unless I'm mistaken, I believe you've just sentenced yourself to the listening of the Cosmos Song. Enjoy.

Okay, but let's not let the jocks off scot free. The whole issue doesn't take root without their greed. Stating "union" leads me to think of the power brokers at the top.

I think Clemens is guilty as he is fat. I also think Canseco's original numbers are probably the closest to accurate we've seen yet. They just need to smarten up, put in a zero-tolerance policy, and make it go away. In the meantime, Congress has some much more important issues (besides this and "spy-gate") they should be dealing with.

Miles' covers featuring Francis (Someday My Prince, ESP) always did it for me. She was incredible!

Ditto.

I understand... Jim. Sorry, I was showing Being There to my film class today and I'm in a quote rut.

Thanks. I did some searching and found an article where Dennis Gonzalez was discussing Johnny, so I e-mailed him and asked him. He says: So, another one solved. Also, I noticed on the WWUH website that they say Charlie COAL hace... to the best of my knowledge, it's COAL haze.

JSngry, really enjoyed your long post, man. You really nailed it. I've seen David a number of times between 1985 and 2005, including the show in Boston where he first presented PAUL GONZALVES, and I've never been disappointed. I can understand why some don't get it, but man, reading your post was like reading my own mind. Thanks for saying it better than I could have.

No takers on Johnny Dyani, eh? I recall reading somewhere (damned if I can remember where) that the Dy makes a J sound, something akin to Johnny Jah knee This sound right, or am I high?