tkeith

As it should be.

Jim Rice should be in the Hall .....i found this in response to a fans question : [Question from fan:] I remember watching you when I was in high school and how they always talked about the strength of your forearms and your bat speed. I also remember an "urban legend" that you could break a bat at the handle just by swinging and flicking your wrists. Any truth to that? Tom F. Tyngsboro, MA [Rice answers:] I did it twice in games. On two separate occasions I broke bats without ever making contact with the pitch and both were check swings. I think one was in Oakland and a curveball started out high and I committed to swing, but when it broke downward on me and I tried to stop my swing I was left just holding the bat handle in my hands. Now, doesn't that sound like a Hall of Famer? Bob Lobel had a great round-table discussion a few years back with Yaz, Fisk, Evans and Rice (if I remember correctly). It was one of the first times I'd ever seen that side of Rice. He was always very surly as a player (though, not so much towards fans). Then a couple of years ago, I saw another interview where he was asked about his attitude towards the press. I had heard Steve Buckley (who's an ass) talking about Rice saying, "When he was 0-4 with 2 strikeouts and 2 double plays, those were the days he'd talk to you, and he was fine. It was the days when he went 3-4 with 2 homeruns that he was so difficult." Rice addressed that very phenomenon in the interview, saying, "I never wanted the focus to be on me, I wanted it on the team. That's why, hey, if we lost because of something I did, I'll take the responsibility. If we won, that's a team victory." *THAT* sounds like a Hall of Famer. If Rice had had Lasic at his disposal, he might well be in The Hall.

Good point. I have some theories about the problems with the writers. As I understand it, a writer must be a beat writer for 10 consecutive years to have a vote. Realistically, that means some of the current voters may have never seen Ted Simmons play as a Cardinal (not everybody had access to out of area broadcasts in the 70s and 80s). Given that, how may of these voters are influenced by what a terrible GM Simmons was?

Pete Rose broke the one rule that should never be broken- he bet on the game. Since the 1919 White Sox that's been the one sacrosanct rule and he broke it. No argument. Your comment is about the game. Are you denying Rose was one of the greatest to ever play the game? Put a disgraced players wing in, if you must, but for the history of the game, he's got to be there. One thing that's always bugged me, Pete was accused of betting on his team to win. The biggest argument I've heard about why that's so bad is that if he didn't bet, that sends a message to the bookies. Who gives a shit about the bookies?

Good work! I guess you had an unexpected day off, today! My last shot at justifying Morris, then I'll shut up. For me, he was always like Dave Stewart was during his great 4-year run: The one guy I did NOT want to see on the mound facing my team. Every time I watched a game where he started against a team I liked, I'd always have the same reaction, "Oh, shit!" I felt that way from 1979 until 1992, and that says a lot about the guy, in terms of how long he was that good. The last time I had that reaction was in the 1991 playoffs against the Braves, which may have been one of the greatest games I've ever seen. As for Simmons, Busch definitely hurt him, but excepting a couple of years (negated by the two years he hit better there), the difference was not as great as I would have expected; or rather, not great enough to reverse my opinion. I think he falls into that Garvey class. To me, Dawson is the real travesty. Bill James can write all the articles he wants, but I watched a TON of Expos games, and that guy was something special. The fact that he did what he did on those knees is even more incredible. What irks me is that there are two things that hurt the Hawk: 1) The discovery of OPS as a meaningful stat for the common fan (thus the common reporter), and 2) The fact that he won that stupid MVP trophy for a 6th-place team. It's like the writers are continuing to shaft this guy for THEIR mistake. Two more travesties: Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose. The Hall isn't about the writers, it isn't about the players, hell, it's not even about the game; it's about the fans. Find me one true baseball fan that doesn't get a stiffy when s/he sees that black-and-white of Pete diving for third base. OH! That's it, I've gotta go rub one out.

I wonder how many anti-Morris voters ever saw him pitch live. Morris was the workhorse of some shit teams, and if he'd been used correctly, he might have 20-30 more wins. Blyleven has longevity and that counts. I like Kaat better than either of them overall. Blyleven's propensity for the gopher always irked me. And I've secretly begrudge him for 30 years for netting only 17 decisions for the '79 Pirates despite 37 starts (mind you, he was backed by one of the best bullpens in history and a hook-happy manager). I'll have to give Simmons another look. I was never all that impressed with his defense, though (that was my position, so I've always been very finicky about D). Still, your point about the effect of Busch Stadium is a good one.

In the meantime, the talking heads of the sports world keep mentioning that the Skanks will "actually have a lower payroll this year." That does not speak to any sort of restraint or management on their part, it merely underscores how ridiculous their past spending has been. I predict they will bankrupt that franchise, and I can't wait. They've held up the city for tax-free bond money and repeatedly demonstrated a mercenary nature that is NOT good for the game (even worse than Boston and the Mets). No matter, I'll call it now -- the Skanks will not win shit in 2009. Burnett will not win 10 games and over the live of this contract will look more like Carl Pavano than the guy who won 18 games in Toronto last year. Whoop it up Skanks fans, your team has just set the advances in contract negotiations back 10 years. On the bright side, that bubble will soon burst -- baseball is not bullet proof, so I say, bring it and kudos to you Hank. Wonder if Bud Harrelson and Rick Cerone are willing to start another league up.

I think the way Simmons' production fell off so quickly hurt him (like Rice). Even though he was still knocking in runs after a point, his inability to run and his relegation to being a DH made his decreasing batting average stand out more. He definitely would fall into that Garvey range, excepting that when he was a major offensive force, he was stuck on that mediocre St. Louis team. One other guy I think needs to go in is Jack Morris. His high ERA works against him, but anybody who saw him pitch knows the real score.

...if Santo gets in, then make room for Dave Parker, Al Oliver, Andre Dawson, Bert Blyleven, Steve Garvey, et.al., they're all on the same HOF level. Dawson and Blyleven belong (as does Dale Murphy) and a legitimate argument could also be made for Garvey. Santo belongs.

Correct - it is Art Farmer ! Any ideas on track details? It's not from "Gentle eyes", though that has a rather similar approach. My guess is, it's the title track from "Crawl space" on CTI. (Not Freddie Hubbard on CTI, but Art Farmer on CTI - very subtle!) MG Ah, yes! Gentle Eyes was the record I was thinking of! I could see the cover, but couldn't remember the name.

You thinking they'd move one of those guys to 2B? I'd love to see them get Sabathia, just because I want a baseball player to give the finger to both the Skanks and the union in one shot. I doubt it will happen, though.

YES!

I'd like a shot at it please. Count me for a download.

More importantly, can you confirm my Oscar Brashear call on track 4? (I'm positive, but my ego needs the stroke )

Yeah, fair point. Maybe I should have put a bit more trad/classic jazz in there. I'd vote against that. The BFT should have the character of the listener as s/he created it. Granted, perhaps nobody will take part if it's not their bag, but this is a great way to hear music you wouldn't otherwise listen to. Even if Berigan's BFT made me hurt. As I said in my response, not sure how often I'd listen to any of this again, but it was good to listen to once, just to push my ears outside their comfort zone.

*ANY* of the solo Tapscotts would be a great place to start!

Wow... we're all having the same stellar rate of success on this...

Glad to see the return of lots of responses to the BFT!

I own all of these, and they're all great. I'd say Sharps then Nate Morgan. Great stuff! As for the OP, I'm going to side with Chuck on this one. If it sounds good to your ear, what does it matter when it was pressed? If it's about collect, well, hell, I couldn't answer that question in a million years.

That's just it, I can't rip to disc the files but I can listen to them on my mac. No ideas so far Drat! I didn't think about saving the ZIP file in a Mac-convertible format. Any hints or suggestions for/from the Mac-maniacs would be greatly appreciated! No idea; my mac likes Zip files just fine. I'd suggest downloading Flip For Mac; it will allow you to do pretty much whatever you want to with those files. Option B, download SWITCH, which will allow you to convert the WMA files to mp3 files.

Correct - 'Body and Soul'. And yes it is Ricky Ford. Any idea which album? Good stuff Thom. Yes, click the word "this" in my original post.

And, of course: Track 1 -- First tenor had some ideas that were Rouse-like, but the sound hits me more like Red Holloway. Probably neither, but I'll go Red. No idea on the trumpet. I like the tenor sound, and I assume it's a second tenor (unless the head was overdubbed). No idea on the flugelhorn. It's a strange tune, but it's fun. Could that be Lex Humphries on drums? Track 2 -- Very Flamenco Sketches, but I like it a lot. Sounds a little like Pharoah only cleaner; a little like Charles Lloyd, but much stronger. I really like this one a great deal. I MUST have this. Track 3 -- No clue. Track 4 -- Stan Kenton tune... I'll guess it's his band. Forget the name... is that Artistry in Rhythm? No idea on the soloist. Oscar Brashear on trumpet. Track 5 -- No idea. Fun, though. Track 6 -- Jug. 'Nuff said. Recognize the tune, but not by name. Man, he had soul! Track 7 -- Okay, I nominate this for the non-sequitor of the set. I liked the part with the bass over the strings, it just took too long to get there. When the alto comes in... eh... just doesn't work for me. Too busy and the recording is terrible. No idea who the alto is -- he's all over the place. Part Frank Strozier, part Jameel Moondoc. No idea on the tenor. Track 8 -- My first thought was Art Pepper, but that thought quickly dissipated. Sounds like... but it can't be. The SOUND of the vibes had me thinking Walt Dickerson, but not quite enough vibrato (and I don't know of him doing any work as a sideman on a date like this). The recording quality sounds newer, but the piano has that classic sound of an old Prestige date. Man... I'm stumped, but I WANT this! Morning re-listen: I'm going to say Anthony Ortega, but I have no idea what the record is. I DEFINITELY WANT THIS! Track 9 -- Somebody I don't know trying to play like Joe Henderson. Maybe Ralph Bowen? Don't know the trumpet player. Sounds a bit Woodyish, so could be one of the Japanese guys I'm not familiar with. Track 10 -- Very familiar tune. I think this is one of those Shihab recordings that just showed up on eMusic recently. Track 11 -- Electric bass, but heck, I'm not made of wood -- I love a good blacksploitation flick and I can see it just hearing this. Hmm... this actually sounds like an Art Farmer record I had years ago, but I don't remember the name of it. If I recall, there was a Carpenters tune on it... We've Only Just Begun, I think. Track 12 -- Not a clue. Way over-produced for my taste. Reminds me of the stuff I liked as a kid (though there were no baris in it) like Stevie Wonder and Steely Dan. It's kind of neat... be fun to do a retro project like this. Track 13 -- I'm totally guessing here... I'm going to say Maynard's band featuring Bill Trujillo on tenor... not sure who the other guy is... is it too early to be Nicky Hill? Man, on the whole, really outstanding BFT. Save Jug, really no gimmes. Kudos!

Most excellent. I'm not big on researching these things (sort of defeats the point), so this is a grip it and rip it attempt. By the way, this was one helluva fun BFT! Track 1 -- Lots of dissonant horns and a needle drop... nice. Nice bass. This sounds sort of Kenton-ish, but only in its outishness. Arrangement hints of Gil Evans to me. I'll lean Gil, but I have no idea what the recording is. Hmm... maybe George Russell? Track 2 -- Decidedly 70s sound. Electric bass, which I despise (but still, I'm kind of diggin' the crime jazz feel of the whole tune). Trumpet player I liked, sax player I did not. Sounds like Steve Gadd to me on drums (busy as hell and not playing the music, just DRUMMING. Could be Buddy (on a really tasteful day), but I don't know these players at all. Rob McConnell maybe? Track 3 -- Now you're talkin'! This is pissing me off... I KNOW this guy! Reminds me of Zoot, but more smooth. Gahd-damnit! Piano player too... egad... I KNOW I've got this, but I have no idea... I've listened 3 times... I'll come back to it... I *KNOW* this record. Mike Cuozzo? Track 4 -- Papa was a ro---.... oh... sorry. I just want to jump in my Lemans and start tailing Robert Mitchum through the bad part of town. No idea, but the drummer sounds like one of the CTI guys... maybe Bernard Purdie. Track 5 -- Right up my alley... in 3... vibes... processed 70s sound... I'm all over this. Harmonization is a little thick. Sounds very overdubbed, which I'm less fond of. That pianist is familiar. This reminds me of another song, maybe something Horace Silver? Don't know, but that bass figure is very familiar. The voicings of the horns on the arrangement remind me a bit of Steve Turre's arrangements with Woody Shaw, but thicker... can't put my finger on it. Track 6 -- That's Oliver Lake on alto. That makes me guess Jamaladeen Tacuma on bass. That tenor sound is very non-descript, but the attack is similar to what Lake does on alto. Never known him to play tenor, though. Maybe Ellery Eskellin? Weird, that arrangement is pure Woody Shaw to my ear. Sounds like Curtis Clark to me on piano, but I think the recording is too old. Somebody out of that Pullen school, for sure. Aw hell, I'm gonna say Don Pullen... Shit... on second thought, I don't think any of that is right. Could be a whacked out Chico Freeman on tenor, but sounds too out to me. It sounds like guys I listen to playing inside. Track 7 -- Hehe... reminds me of the Emanuelle soundtrack. No idea what this is. More commercial than what I typically listen to, but in the right setting... I dunno, there's something that's 'best of Bond' about it. I dig it in spite of itself. Track 8 -- Not an alto player I know. Sounds like a college guy (can't explain what I mean by that, but definitely a guy who has that studied sound). I don't know this band, but I like the drummer. This is actually good music, I just don't know that I would play it much. Piano player has listened to a LOT of McCoy and Herbie. Could be Tain on drums, but sounds more out than that to me. Track 9 -- Woman's voice sounds like Rosemary Clooney to me. If that's right, I'll be shocked. Track 10 -- The only sitar player I know is James Pomerantz, so I couldn't fathom a guess. Again, I like this, I'm just not sure if I'd ever toss it in the CD player. It's very soundtracky. It kind of reminds me of an old Dr. L. Subramiam cassette I have somewhere, but more restrained. Until the rap... uh... hmmm... no thanks. Alright... this has lost me (3:33). It's trying too hard to be too many things... it's going for bebop, swing, funk, and hindi-rap. No idea. This is a frustrating recording. The alto player has that "recordable" sound, that makes him (or her) completely indistinguishable. Sounds like a neutered Kenny Garrett. A bit like Justin Robinson, but too commercial. I"m clueless, but they're not players I know. There's something about this one really rubbing me wrong. I'll shut up now. Track 11 -- No idea. Anything further I'd say would be offensive. Track 12 -- Body & Soul, Trane changes (the BEST changes, IMHO). This just... damnit, it doesn't swing. Could be Ricky Ford, but doesn't sound quite as personally as Ricky to me. It's definitely Ricky. This what has always confounded me about him; some stuff I have him on and I love it (Ibrahim's NO FEAR, NO DIE; Waldron's CROWD SCENE), but much of it strikes me like this did. It frustrated me enough to look it up, and it's this. Never would have guessed the drummer, and he's somebody I love. Track 13 -- Oof. I was digging this until the organ; holy 80s! Hyper-compressed drums. Simultaneous solo of drums and organ is too much in this setting. They're striving for in the pocket, but both are too busy and it spoils the feel (IMHO). Track 14 -- Can't explain why, but I'm really diggin' this. Piano reminds me of the amazing Hassan. I want to say J-Griff fools nobody, but overall this sounds too commercial and the technique wasn't quite what I'd expect from J-Griff; perhaps something later (even though it's a needle drop).

Tupac. Oh wait, you said musicians.

That might actually make sense; I know a lot of us have Friday off and that gives us a good incentive to comment.