John B

BFT #26 discussion thread

96 posts in this topic

Took a look at what our fellow posters thought about the BFT. Some funny rats had a field day! Was mainly searching to get an idea of where the track 6 originated. I want to check the rest of that album. Is it as interesting as that singing tune?

Not every track features this vocalist. In my opinion, the entire album is very interesting and I would highly recommend you give it a listen.

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I'm guessing the "theme" is "Italian Jazz", so I've pretty much assumed every track is somehow related to Italy.

Correct. The theme also determined track selection. In several cases I did not choose my favorite track from an album, hoping to make the test more varied and to make the theme more difficult to determine. Track 9 is a perfect example of this.

I'm glad you found some tracks that worked for you!

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Sorry I'm so late with this, but now that I can take some time to listen in a more relaxed mood I actually like some of this music a lot better than at my first two cursory listening sessions. There was simply too much work to do and too little time to listen to any music at all.

This was written without looking at the others' guesses.

Track 1: Nice freestyle big band for openers. No Idea who they are, but like it, good soloists throughout, though nothing mindlblowing. Only complaint would be that the piano (and its player) sound somewhat superfluous in this context - I also find it sounds too neutral and is recorded and mixed like it was removed from the rest of the band. That Huapango style final part is a great idea, but I would have preferred a less wailing tenor solo and a less rockish attitude of the drummer when he gets excited - there is so much you can do with these 12-pulse multi-beat rhythms. Now the trumpet player is more on it. Who are they?

Track 2: This trumpeter has a Milesian sound, but plays more conventionally and is technically more assured - this performance suggests an older player to me, or a rather conservative one. Nice but not spectacular, once again the piano sounds very neutral. Drummer's too low in the mix.

Track 3: Probably some circular breather - I prefer music that breathes in and out with a rest once in a while. Nice initial ideas, but methinks it goes nowhere. More like a technical exercise, not so well executed. Listen to some Eric Dolphy!!!

Track 4: Clarinet and drums. Hmm ... not enough rhythmic variation in it for me on the drummer's side. Why do they fade out? Interesting clarinettist.

Track 5: That sax solo does not say too much to me, and I find they doo that tango-tape rhythm too fast and restless. What do they need to get off? I prefer it a little less restless, in general. Don't like the sound of the sax section. Again the bassist and drummer do not know what to do with the 12-pulse hemiola rhythm (under the trumpet solo). I have listened to enough of these wailing saxists in my life, don't want it any more. Please, get your rocks off before you go into the recording studio ....

Track 6: Ooh! Verrry nice combination low horns and this (Italian?) folk style singer, I like this un-artificial singing much more than the educated sophistication of most jazz and classical singers. Italian band? Nice violin - or some gamba type instrument? My favourite so far!

Track 7: Starts out very interestingly, I just thought it might sound better without the drummer, just the percussion, when another of those darned wailers lifted his horn ... Reminds me of Gato Barbieri's Impulse stuff - but this type of thing doesn't thrill me. Haden-style bass. Had to make sure that lyrical sounding fluegelhorn playing Meditacao or some other Jobim was the same track. Bassist and drummer (in fact, most jazz bassists and drummers, IMHO) need to get more deeply into Latin rhythm styles - they play the rhythms, but there is not enough alma (soul) in it .... Can't figure what this juxtaposition wants top tell me. Percussionist is nice, drummer is fumbling around too much. They're not together in the statement of the theme after the paino solo. Okay, and then the bass or cello is taking apart again - or he thinks he does by running up and down the fingerboard. Definitely not my cup of tea.

Track 8: Two lonely clarinet souls at sunset - nice - I would listen to more of them to find out what else they can do. Nice mixture of classical duet influences and jazz styles.

Track 9: Oh yeah - I hear your message, brother! Late 1970's black power music? Bass and drums are not really together - metronome-wise they are, but their groove is not. Overall, nice. I would have expected (and liked) more rap or vocals. Who is this?

Track 10: Nice drum sound - something in this vein is on my next BT project list - oh, but mine doesn't venture into funk. Nice. Trumpet is swell. Like it that they play the funk in long phrases. Oh, and back again to Dixieland. Clarinet & Clave ... these guys got chops, ideas, and humor. 'Bone is swell, too. Something I would buy, definitely. Some of the horn players doing the percussion when not soloing? That 3/4 every eighth bar in the closing theme is nice. Who is this!!!???

Track 11: Taking us back to dreamland for closers - now let's wait where it takes me. These oriental scales remind me of something. Well, they're not exactly having a nightmare, but a little action ... I think it would have been more compelling if the percussionist would have stayed in a more reflective mood. For my taste, he's not enough on the beat in the faster rhythmic part, relying too much on rudimental stuff and not interlocking with the pianist's patterns, who tries hard to engage him in dialogue. Oh - now he gives in and plays fast whirlybird stuff too, that seems to work better with that drummer. But it spoils the inticacy of the piece. Sounds like the percussion was inside the piano, at least part of it.

Nice idea, but I'd do this differently. Too much hyperactivity in the percussion. But a very appropriate closer!

Tracks 6 and 10 definitely are my favourites in a challenging program. Very interesting selections - Thanks a lot!

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Took a look at what our fellow posters thought about the BFT. Some funny rats had a field day! Was mainly searching to get an idea of where the track 6 originated. I want to check the rest of that album. Is it as interesting as that singing tune?

Not every track features this vocalist. In my opinion, the entire album is very interesting and I would highly recommend you give it a listen.

Guy, it's a very good disc! One of those that for me impersonates the recent wave of "mediterranean" music (be it "jazz" or not...). There's a fine gang of musicians on the disc, Favre, Garcia-Fons, Matinier, Godard, Trovesi, the singers, and Pino (who is all over the place at least on the more "prestigious" of these kinds of projects, it seems... the Enja ones, instead of those on really "small" labels).

You really should give at least this disc and some (no matther which, all that I've heard are great) Instabile disc a chance! (I would recommend the "Instabile Festival" 2CD release on Leo that features many bands-within-the-band, from trumpet and trombone duos to trios, quartets and quintets in various line-ups).

What was that about BFT#7, dear Man-Sir? :crazy:

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What was that about BFT#7, dear Man-Sir?  :crazy:

you know when that guy tried to get cute and all and follow some nice accordion with some more accordion and then some silly film music and then some more B3 accordion.

i vote for the fifty minute blindfold test from now on! just stop that #7 after #14 is all. can't wait for the revised second edition. or maybe he'll send out a second disc or at least the outer ring of one that you can glue down onto the other. :eye::crazy::eye:

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What was that about BFT#7, dear Man-Sir?  :crazy:

you know when that guy tried to get cute and all and follow some nice accordion with some more accordion and then some silly film music and then some more B3 accordion.

i vote for the fifty minute blindfold test from now on! just stop that #7 after #14 is all. can't wait for the revised second edition. or maybe he'll send out a second disc or at least the outer ring of one that you can glue down onto the other. :eye::crazy::eye:

Please be sure you add some explanation like these here:

http://www.hepcatwilly.com/index.php?id=806

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I will plan on posting answers by Tuesday, July 5th, at the latest. That will be just in time for JSngry's mailing for BFT 27, and will give the remaining 12 people who haven't chimed in so far a chance to post any thoughts they might have on this disc.

Again, I would love to read people's guesses, thoughts or impressions, both positive and negative, on the tracks I chose. I've really enjoyed the discussion so far and am looking to reading some more great posts before this wraps up.

Edited by John B

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I assume that discussion has been going on for a while (weeks?), so first let me apologize for being so slow to join in. A bad case of flu and a medium-sized computer problem set everything back.

I gave the disc a first-impressions sort of listen shortly after it arrived. Here's the transcript of my handwritten notes:

Track 1. Wham! What a start! Like a call for attention. Then disorder. A traveling show has arrived in town, made its presence known, and now a crowd is starting to gather and chatter, and the performers are getting themselves organized. Evertually everyone settles down and the performance starts. The orchestra gives an overview of what's to come: vignettes from various exotic places the audience will probably never see. The scene is medieval, something out of Chaucer or Boccaccio. Piano gives something like a narrative introduction and we're off ... to places that can almost be identified, but not quite ... more like places as they are imagined by people who haven't been there ... like these first scenes, which are Latin, but not exactly. Very folkloric.

Track 2. After the energetic start here's something more relaxed but definitely not sloppy. Recognize the tune but frustrated that I can't put a name to it. This seems a sort of interlude setting things up for ...

Track 3. A snake charmer! An image of a globe comes to me (and stays for the remainder of the disc). I see this festival taking the audience on a tour of subtropical regions. Here I sense northern Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Pamirs.

Track 4. Similar images here. No idea who all these musicians are. Probably European. With that clarinet, maybe Trovesi, but I'm not familiar enough to hazard a guess. :unsure:

Track 5. Okay, here it all is: dancing, marching, parading. A fair, a carnival, a circus. Storytelling, drama.

Track 6. A vocal. What is this? Can't quite make it out. Italian? Greek? Sort of like, but probably not. Something Adriatic, it seems. Fetching.

Track 7. Strange piece. Wailing start takes a Latin turn, eventually evolving into something Mexican, but not exactly. Then South American, sort of.

Track 8. Nice slowdown here, meandering off the main road, so to speak, on an interesting tangent. A special little tale. Would have liked this one to go on longer.

Track 9. Whoa! :excl: The spell is broken. What's this doing here?

Track 10. Yeah, this one, too, is out of place, at least as far as my little trip is concerned.

Track 11. A monkeyed-with piano sounding a little like harpsichord. A lovely, transporting piece. This would have been good in the middle somewhere -- a bit of mystery on the journey.

I couldn't shake my initial impression of a traveling show that was taking me on an imaginary excursion. Except for Tracks 9 and 10, the disc hung together beautifully. It really seemed to me a panoramic medieval entertainment, full of surprises. And I enjoyed being present.

I've never heard these pieces before and have no idea who these musicians are. After listening a second time, my best guess remains that these are European players, probably southern European.

I'm really at a loss to say much more -- this disc is outside my normal listening and I'm sure what to make of it yet and whether I'll go out in search of more of the same. One thing is for sure, though. John, you did a marvelous job of programming the material. Many thanks for opening my ears to something new to me. :tup:tup:tup

Okay, now may look at the replies?

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Okay, now may look at the replies?

Yup, sure! And you shall see that #10 fits right in with the rest of the disc! #9 though not really... also my opinion. About #10: maybe the cleanliness of the studio production (I find it almost off-putting, almost), does keep you from noticing how to fit it in? It's them mediterraneans re-discovering what they imported to the new land, vie New Orleans...

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Here's some thoughts so far...

1. Like this once it gets going. Its not a band I know and would be something I'd love to see live though not really something I'd come back to on disc a lot probably cause of the looseness. The snippets of a theme sound like I should know them but can't think from where (but they don't stick to it for long...)

Dave Holland Conference for the Birds (I always think that the original of this has such a killer bassline that I'm surprised its never been lifted for another purpose.) Some nice solos though I could live without the latin segue. I'd guess a european festival/workshop big band and a good one!

2. Nice trumpet and piano no idea on who they are.

3. No idea here who this is and it starts interestingly enough but ends up as a bit of a circular breathing exercise and then just ends...

4. Much more interesting and no shortage of musical ideas here. Afraid no idea of the musicians though.

5. Another loose largeish outfit and some nice soloing here but not much else

6. Middle eastern/balkans sounding (I'm guessing). Quite like the music rather than the singing and the fiddle (?) solo sounds terrific

7...

more later

Quoting myself is bad form but have listened to this a bit more and thought I'd post some more since I possibly came over a bit more negative than I meant to. Never got back to putting in my comments for the rest...

1 & 2 are excellent listening again especially

7. Like this a lot with a whole bunch of stuff in one tune.

8. Lovely dark tune with nice interplay from the two clarinets I'd have to name the two likely suspects I've heard Sclavis and Trovesi though the latter I've only heard with Gianni Coscia and this is much more dark material and I don't think I've heard enough Sclavis to pick him out

9. Interesting but not a great start with those vocals but a more interesting modern big band sound once it gets going. Exciting stuff though with so much going on and lots of propulsion.

10. Trovesi and his new wave euro trad thing? (introduced to me by Ubu) nice enough and maybe live I'd like it but somehow it doesn't grab me

11. Really like this, prepared piano and drums percussion. I've only seen Tippett do this and this isn't likely him. Like the Zither like thing going on (like a sixties film soundtrack tampered with).

To finish (now that I've had a look through the answers) there is a lot of interesting stuff here that is well outside what I've heard (and without Trovesi I'd recognise nothing). Plenty fine tunes and if it comes from the Rat's lair maybe I'll have to have a lookout there and maybe even post on it...

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2. This is one I just might know – Non Dimenticar from the album of the same name by Aldo Romano – Paolo Fresu, Furio di Castri and Franco D’Andrea (all from memory and I haven’t even got the album!). I do hope this is right because it’s the only one I can guess about.

Correct, this is Aldo Romano, but neither the song nor the album is Non Dimenticar.

If I'm not mistaken, only two tracks have still not been identified as of today: #8 and 9. D.D. has identified the composer of track #9, but no one has identified the musicians yet.

Hmm... I just returned here to see whether or not track #2 had been identified yet. I've read through the whole thread again, but I don't see where the song has been identified. It was pointed out that Aldo Romano and Paulo Fresu were playing on it, but the album and the leader are as yet unidentified, and although several people thought the tune was "non dimenticar", John stated that neither the song nor the album was "non dimenticar". I just realized that I have a Nat Cole version of "non dimenticar", just played it, and that IS the melody Fresu plays. :unsure: Did I overlook something? Is there an alternate title for that song?

By the way, this one track made the whole BFT worthwhile for me. :) I love it. I've rarely listened to the Cole version, but this instrumental version has me convinced I need to start playing this tune myself. :tup

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2. This is one I just might know – Non Dimenticar from the album of the same name by Aldo Romano – Paolo Fresu, Furio di Castri and Franco D’Andrea (all from memory and I haven’t even got the album!). I do hope this is right because it’s the only one I can guess about.

Correct, this is Aldo Romano, but neither the song nor the album is Non Dimenticar.

If I'm not mistaken, only two tracks have still not been identified as of today: #8 and 9. D.D. has identified the composer of track #9, but no one has identified the musicians yet.

Hmm... I just returned here to see whether or not track #2 had been identified yet. I've read through the whole thread again, but I don't see where the song has been identified. It was pointed out that Aldo Romano and Paulo Fresu were playing on it, but the album and the leader are as yet unidentified, and although several people thought the tune was "non dimenticar", John stated that neither the song nor the album was "non dimenticar". I just realized that I have a Nat Cole version of "non dimenticar", just played it, and that IS the melody Fresu plays. :unsure: Did I overlook something? Is there an alternate title for that song?

By the way, this one track made the whole BFT worthwhile for me. :) I love it. I've rarely listened to the Cole version, but this instrumental version has me convinced I need to start playing this tune myself. :tup

I knew it! Does the tune have more than one title then? All will soon be revealed I hope. The leader is Aldo Romano I should think.

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Hmm... I just returned here to see whether or not track #2 had been identified yet.  I've read through the whole thread again, but I don't see where the song has been identified.  It was pointed out that Aldo Romano and Paulo Fresu were playing on it, but the album and the leader are as yet unidentified, and although several people thought the tune was "non dimenticar", John stated that neither the song nor the album was "non dimenticar".  I just realized that I have a Nat Cole version of "non dimenticar", just played it, and that IS the melody Fresu plays.  :unsure:  Did I overlook something?  Is there an alternate title for that song?

By the way, this one track made the whole BFT worthwhile for me.  :)  I love it.  I've rarely listened to the Cole version, but this instrumental version has me convinced I need to start playing this tune myself.  :tup

I just checked the liner notes and this tune, which is titled " T'ho voluto bene," became known as "Non dimenticar." So I was incorrect. This track is labelled under the original name for the tune, but the song is the same.

The album, however, is not called Non dimenticar, although Romano does have another disc, recorded at the same time, under that name.

I hope that clears things up! Apologies for any confusion I caused.

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Thanks John. :tup

I'm kind of surprised this tune has (apparently) remained relatively obscure in jazz circles. Cole's is the only version I have. Anybody know of any other good versions?

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Okay, now may look at the replies?

Yup, sure! And you shall see that #10 fits right in with the rest of the disc! #9 though not really... also my opinion. About #10: maybe the cleanliness of the studio production (I find it almost off-putting, almost), does keep you from noticing how to fit it in? ...

Yes, I see. And I admit that #10 has grown on me with further listening. It's just that it didn't fit that well with my vision of a medieval traveling show ... although it might have worked as the final cut.

I'm much relieved to have the answer to #2. "Non dimenticar" came to me just as I hit the submit button on my reply, and I couldn't believe that that wasn't it. I went back and listened a few more times and thought I was going nuts. Mystery solved.

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Thanks John.  :tup

I'm kind of surprised this tune has (apparently) remained relatively obscure in jazz circles.  Cole's is the only version I have.  Anybody know of any other good versions?

I have none but AMG shows just one that I can see, on this album. Good review. Duo - alto/piano.e89420oa4ma.jpg

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Given that JSngry is ready to start mailing the next BFT at the end of this week I'll get my answers posted in the next few days.

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Better late, and incomplete, than never! I loved this disc and can't wait to read the answers.

01 Whoa! What an intro. I really like how it settled into forceful ensemble free blowing. Swarming! It almost sounds like an orchestra tuning before a concert, but all moving in the same direction. This piece ended up sounding like something entirely different than I had expected. Great trombone solo. I can't guess who this band is, but it sounds top notch.

02 This has a festival sound. I like these bright march-style tunes. A nice rhythm. I count 6/8. The band sounds large and fiery. There is a lot of lateral movement beneath the trumpet solo. This is a nice theme. Straight forward call and response interspersed with the flute solo. I liked it.

03 Sort of reminds me of the Evan Parker solo recording that I have heard, Lines Burnt in Light, but not as impressive. This might be Evan Parker at an earlier stage. I don't know. I'm thinking not.

04 Great duet. Nice clarinet playing and the drummer is no slouch. I really don't know anyone so far.

05 Wow. This guy's really got it. What an amazing intro. Gorgeous. My guess is this is not an American band. This is fantastic. Brilliant traps solo with marimba vamp! I'm into this. I'm way into this.

06 Another wow. I like the phasing arrangement behind such a powerful voice. This is really beautiful music. Damn she has a range!

07 I'm batting zero and loving the hell out of it. Great music John. One bad ass drummer. Are you f'ing kidding me? That was an intro?!

I'm out. I'm just going to read the answers at this point. Great disc all the way through!!!

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First of all, many thanks to John B for his efforts in compiling the wide variety of music presented here. I'm convinced I have not identified a single song, and based on the hugely eclectic selections I see John post in the WAYLT threads, I'd say that's a good bet. I've listened to this disc about 7 or 8 times.

Blindfold Test #26

Compiled By John B

1. I thought this to be two different songs at first. Piano sounds Guaraldi-ish in the Latin section.

2. Reminds me of early Miles Davis, Birth Of The Cool years. Dig the piano. I probably should recognize the tune, it sounds like a standard.

3. Oh, now I'm really lost. No chance for me here as far as guesses go. Entrancing, it amazes me that some of you (I'm sure) will be able to nail this sort of blind guess. Wild guess...well, no.

4. Similar to track one, in subsequent listens this one has grown on me. Meditative, Middle-Eastern sounding rhythm with some oddly entrancing horn I'd liken to Yusef Lateef.

5. Rahsaan Roland Kirk come to mind.

6. Definitely a Mediterranean vibe here. Beatiful, but I haven't the foggiest clue.

7. Piano reminds me of Les McCann's on "Doing That Thing" here at the start but those Latin percussion instruments cue me that something Latin might happen. They build up quite the fiery storm of an intro for such a mellow number! That comes across CTI-ish to me--on the good side.

8. This one creeps me out. It actually reminds me of the scary level on Metroid, the final stage where the fast, gigantic energy-draining critters latch onto Samus if you don't freeze them fast enough. Or maybe it was an earlier level, but that's beside the point.

9. P-Funkish, but jazzier...Kuti? Me likey.

10. A bit cheesey, but everybody can use a little cheese now and again. I like it in segments. No idea who.

11. Now we've gone to the Far East! A fine closer.

Edited by Noj

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9.  P-Funkish, but jazzier...Kuti?  Me likey.

I was hoping you would post your thoughts soon. Based on what I've seen you list in the What are You Listening To? thread I thought you might dig this one.

I'm glad you found some tracks you enjoyed!

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I've got to agree with Geoff that the final track, #11, is my favorite overall. I'm going to read the answers this morning. Thanks again John! :tup

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