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JSngry

Why I Stay Pissed

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If anybody in the NYC/Central NJ area wants to get pissed, I'm in.

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People who don't have that twinkle are dangerous.

And yet, they say it's the other way around... ;)

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They lie.

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KCHU today:

(It is the Hotel St. Germain)

Still looks the same - just cleaner :lol:

germain.jpg

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Now playing: Anthony Braxton & Lauren Newton - Composition 192 (for two musicians & constructed environment)

Edited by rostasi

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Was that place on or near the corner of Peak & San Jacinto? I lived in that neighborhood for a while, across the street from some church.

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There's nothing like having multiple turntables and tape machines going at once

while the DJ carefully textures the sound with electronic music by Henri Pousseur,

and sounds of North American frogs whilst having a

Caedmon recording of Dylan Thomas reading his own poetry.

Pure utter delight if done right!

Before your time, probably, but I remember one day in Gladewater when the conditions were just right and I was able to pick up KNUS one afternoon (could usually get them only at night). This was back when they were an "underground" station that did their share of free-form (as well as where I first heard Ayler & late-period Trane...).

Well, this afternoon, the DJ started fading in and out between the first side of Jack Johnson and the opening cut of the first Chase album, the instrumental "Open Up Wide". He did it so seamlessly that I, who was just discovering jazz and didn't know the difference between Miles Davis and Miles Standish (or between Chase & Sanborn, even though that was the coffee my mom bought...), though it was all one piece of music!

Soon enough, I found out otherwise, but still, that was a pretty nifty piece of work!

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Was that place on or near the corner of Peak & San Jacinto? I lived in that neighborhood for a while, across the street from some church.
Near Maple and McKinney. When you look at the picture - to the left is the famous Old Warsaw Restaurant

on the other corner. It's directly across the street from The Crescent.

(I'm sure this is fascinating to non-Dallasites - :P sorry...)

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Now playing: As One - Out Of The Darkness

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Well, this afternoon, the DJ started fading in and out between the first side of Jack Johnson and the opening cut of the first Chase album, the instrumental "Open Up Wide".
:lol: Wow! with that opening solo flutter sound...hell yeah!

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Now playing: The Propositions - Funky Dispostion

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the opening cut of the first Chase album...
I've told you before, haven't I, that my uncle was their agent? - them and the "Ides of March."

You're my vehicle baby! :lol::lol::lol:

Herb Gronauer, my dad's brother.

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Now playing: The Upsetters - Lover's Skank [spangler's Clap]

Edited by rostasi

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No, you haven't told me that before!

Wasn't Jim Peterik connected w/both bands somehow?

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Wasn't Jim Peterik connected w/both bands somehow?

Yup! He wrote Vehicle (and Eye of the Tiger too by the way):bad:

He wrote some songs for Chase and was ready to join the band when the plane went down.

Got to get it on - gotta get it on - gottagetiton... :w

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Now playing: Hannibal & The Sunrise Orchestra - The Bombing

Edited by rostasi

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Golly - I would hope that a live thinking person doing free-form radio would be a billion times better than a randomly-generated shuffle feature. To my way of thinking, the whole point is to make connections and program a "set" that has continuity and growth - shuffle can't do this. The ability to draw from a wide range of genres shouldn't result in just a hodge podge, but should show similarities, contrasts, whatever.

Shouldn't but usually does, unfortunately. At least that's been my experience. Good free form is rarer than most good things. I've heard a lot of it that you wouldn't be able to distinguish from a shuffle with segue software. I've heard a lot of it you wouldn't be able to distinguish from formatted radio. I've heard some of it you wouldn't be able to distinguish from exquisite torture. I've heard some of it that was genius.

In some ways I'm a fan of the free-form idea, but in other ways, when I want to hear jazz, I turn to the jazz station and expect to get jazz, and when I want to hear rock, I turn to the rock station, etc.

Mike

That's the usual argument against all mixed formats. My own theory is that people who want and expect jazz and jsut jazz now have many options aside from broadcast, so in the long run it's not a fight worth fighting. I'm shooting for more of that personal experience Jim mentioned, but with some lines on the road to (hopefully) avoid the serious pitfalls of true freeform. That, I'm hoping, is a fight worth fighting.

--eric

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There is still a long way to go in developing jazz radio in a more viable and positive direction. Right now there seems to me to be a split between the pre-1980 attitude (who cares if anyone listens, this is great) and the David Giovannoni attitude (there's no difference between "service" and ratings). My own notion is that public radio service is a function of both the quality of the programming and quantity of people that programming reaches. If no one listens, the greatest programming in the world does no service. If everyone listens to Rush Limbaugh, you have made the world a worse, not a better, place.

The point I would try to make with the folks who seem to care ONLY for quality is that radio is a mass medium: it quite simply isn't right to use the public airwaves to broadcast programming that hardly anyone will benefit from. Especially when most of the people who DO listen have lots of disposable income to go out and buy the music in question themselves. So there is a contradiction when radio is disdianed for programming in a way that draws more listeners. That is what radio is for: to reach relatively big audiences.

So when you design a jazz program, the first question is "How do I do I present jazz in a way that is both culturally enriching for the community and financially viable for the station?" You don't ask "What are my favorites?" or "What do I think other people ought to be compelled to listen to?" For me art is about compromise (between inspiration and the limits of form, between creatior and audience, between competing motives). The art of radio is a creative compromise between the desire to expand the audience (for both financial and service reasons) and the desire to express oneself aesthetically. Those who can't bring themselves to accept this sort of compromise should look for another medium to patronize.

--eric

Eric,

I think this is very well-stated--and I also agree with your remark elsewhere about the enjoying the challenge of retaining/increasing the audience with programming that is good. I just don't want to neglect the jazz lovers. (Which I know you're not advocating.) Spurning them entirely (as KKJZ seems to be doing) strikes me as being as mistaken as catering to them exclusively.

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I also strongly disagree/disapprove with the notion that "newcomers" to jazz won't enjoy something like Atlantic-era Ornette. In my experiences, some will and some won't, and the proportion isn't really any different for this "style" of jazz as it is for any other. I mean, we've got people here who don't dig organ jazz, but do they stay away from the board?

so the notion that "we're not going to play it because nobody will like it" strikes me as fundamentally wrong, both philosophically and realistically.. Some people will like it (And amongst younger people, perhaps more than some), and a station like KNTU can/should include it in their overall programming accordingly.

What I really think is at work here is a fundamental conflict of purpose. I know from experience that the UNT JazzEd program is first and foremost about learning a skill, not about developing a peronal voice, nurturing the "creative spirit", or anything like that. Which is fine with me, that's what they do, they do it damn well, and many fine musicians (as well as a handful of great ones) have come out of that environment.

But, geez, Ornette...you get people listening to him, thinking about his music and about how it's created and what it represents (on many different levels), and WHOA! Where does that leave a program that is so strongly oriented towards teaching mechanical skills (and judging merit accordingly)? You've got cats there who have spent a lifetime building careers on teaching a certain way of playing jazz, as well as on using the institutional powers at their disposal to reinforce the aura of the "correctness" of their approach. Where does Ornette leave them?

The thing is, you can, (and should!) have the knowledge (a little, some, or all) that these guys teach to make relevant creative music. Knowledge never hurrt anybody! But accquiring the skills is just the first step, and it's one that a lot of significant artists pick up in different ways and at different paces along the way. A systematic approach works for some, doesn't work for others, and doens't make any difference one way or another for still others.

What you can't teach is soul, feeling, and creativity, and by narrowing the parameters of what is "good" jazz as this (and, I'm sure, other) programs have done, you (intentionally or otherwise) create an environment in which "success" is easily obtained by merely following the rules (the harder you apply yourself to the following/application of thiose rules, the greater the degree of "success" awarded), which makes the students look/feel good, and defintely makes the teachers look like some bad mofos, since they turn out SO MANY "top-flight" players. It's a big ego-stroke for all concerned, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but still, the longer it gets propagated, the less tolerant of "alternatives" it becomes. Where that leads...

So there's no room for Ornette in a place such as this. He challenges/exposes too much of the "home" philosophy. So it's best to mock him, to minimalize him, to stigmatize him, and it's even better to hide his CDs so they don't get played by "untrained" DJs who might let the cat out of the bag. Protect the kingdom at all costs!

It's a situation that I know will never change, one that's been in place long before I got there and will still be in place long after I'm dead and gone. Usually, i file that world away with so many other "parallel universes", but this time I slipped up and allowed them in. My bad!

Edited by JSngry

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Jazz stations should definitely play all the various representations of jazz, imo. I would trust that any given radio DJ would select what he/she considers the best track off a given album no matter what it is. It can't be all one style, all the time. Play brand new music, really old music, really strange music, music that swings, music that's funky, music that's way out there...that would be my preference anyway. How else is anyone going to learn about all that jazz has to offer? I read discussions here about music by artists I have no idea about. There should be a place for all of it on jazz radio, imo.

It would actually be my preference to hear the music on the radio change styles on a song by song basis. Juxtapose, baby!

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It would actually be my preference to hear the music on the radio change styles on a song by song basis.  Juxtapose, baby!

:tup:tup:tup

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Now playing: Iancu Dumitrescu - Clusterum I

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