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sal

Sopranos

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So, what did everybody think of the premiere? I thought it was a very solid episode, considerably better than most of the Season 6 episodes. I'm excited to see where this season goes, and how they conclude it.

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For me it was a bit of a shock to be re-introduced to the sheer, brutal lowness of this world, on the part of all or virtually all the characters, but I suppose I'll get used to it again -- I always have before. Also, say what you will, I felt a sudden sick moment of hope that somewhere toward the end of it all Meadow gets maimed or killed. Perhaps that's evidence that the show corrupts its watchers as much as it does its characters.

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Bobby dropped the gun.

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Bobby dropped the gun.

Typically there is nothing wrong with that since I believe he was wearing latex gloves. Plus he was in Canada, better to drop it than have to bring it over the border. The bigger problem was that dude ripping his shirt and maybe still clutching the piece of it.

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Was he wearing gloves? I didn't notice. You might well be right.

I thought that might be significant as a "rookie mistake", since the whole thing seemed to be based on Tony reassserting his dominance by taking away Bobby's "cherry". I could see that leading to all kinds of places...

But then again, I don't trust these writers anymore. Not to set up a keen stiory line and follow it through.

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Was he wearing gloves? I didn't notice. You might well be right.

I thought that might be significant as a "rookie mistake", since the whole thing seemed to be based on Tony reassserting his dominance by taking away Bobby's "cherry". I could see that leading to all kinds of places...

But then again, I don't trust these writers anymore. Not to set up a keen stiory line and follow it through.

Who knows, you may very well be correct on the "rookie mistake" angle. But they already went back in time to show Tony drop a gun with a kid watching.

As for the story writing, yeah that's been my a little gripe for me since the beginning. Many inconsistencies and stories that had no finish. It got really bad as the seasons went on.

I think it was the first episode when Junior is yelling at Tony, "you may run North Jersey, but you don't run your uncle"!

Only to find an episode or two later that there was not only a true boss in prison, but an acting boss as well and it wasn't Tony it was Jackie Aprile.

I could name a hundred.

Still, I'm here to see it to the end. :cool:

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Truthfully, the first thing that sprnag to my mind was that Bobby dropped the gun, with prints, and that they track him down, lean hard on him & his family once the extradition things get worked out, and eventually get him to flip. That would bring all the lingering family/psychological issues back, what w/Janice & all, and seeing how that all plays out could make for a nifty final run.

But it probably won't be that interesting. :g

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More like in the final episode they are going to flash back and show there was some kid that witnessed Bobby kill the dude and drop the gun all while hiding in a dryer with it running and the kid getting bonked in the head with the sneakers inside there with him. :cool:

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:g:g:g

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................or maybe Pam wakes up and finds Bobby in the shower and realizes she dreamed the whole thing.....oh, wait....... :blink:

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................or maybe Pam wakes up and finds Bobby in the shower and realizes she dreamed the whole thing.....oh, wait....... :blink:

Is Bobby in the shower with Vito and Johnny Cakes?

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................or maybe Pam wakes up and finds Bobby in the shower and realizes she dreamed the whole thing.....oh, wait....... :blink:

Is Bobby in the shower with Vito and Johnny Cakes?

What was the jazz piece that ended episode 3? It's an Ellingtonian big band piece. It might be "Sing Sing Sing," I'm not sure.

Kevin

Edited by Kreilly

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It's Benny Goodman"s "Sing, Sing, Sing," though it may not be the original studio recording or the famous Carnegie Hall concert one. There have been many later versions, though virtually all in the mould of the original.

Edited by Larry Kart

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I've been pleased with these final episodes so far. They are significanly more interesting than last year's episodes.

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I agree with Sal.

Does Tony repaying all of Hesch's money portend something "bad"?

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I agree with Sal.

Does Tony repaying all of Hesch's money portend something "bad"?

Nah, I think it was more of a sign that Tony is trying to get it together and the gambling problem is history.

I would agree this season is much more interesting than the last couple. I could have done without the kid taking a shit in the shower, but I'm enjoying the story line between Phil and Tony.

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I agree with Sal.

Does Tony repaying all of Hesch's money portend something "bad"?

Nah, I think it was more of a sign that Tony is trying to get it together and the gambling problem is history.

I would agree this season is much more interesting than the last couple. I could have done without the kid taking a shit in the shower, but I'm enjoying the story line between Phil and Tony.

If Tony's gambling problem is now history, then to hell with them for introducing it.

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I missed something and hope that someone else can clear it up. When Hesch's girlfriend died, was it a hit ordered by Tony, or just due to natural causes? I couldn't tell as I watched the show.

If it was a hit ordered by Tony, then Tony's coming by and dropping off the money, with some meager and stilted words of sympathy, seems to have been a very cold message that you don't get pushy about repayment of debt.

If it was due to natural causes, then Tony's coming by and dropping off the money, with some meager and stilted words of sympathy, does not seem to fit in with the genuinely warm relationship which Tony and Hesch have had over the several years of the show. Perhaps it was meant to convey that Hesch's insistence on payment had ruined their personal relationship.

And then why did Tony look so happy and satisfied as he left Hesch's house? It could have been that he was happy to have the debt paid off and behind him, happy that his order to kill Hesch's girlfriend had such a negative impact on Hesch, happy to have paid an old friend an appropriately helpful visit (showing a lack of understanding on Tony's part). What was it? I can't tell.

Edited by Hot Ptah

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Another thing--does anyone on the board have a background in working with troubled children, to be able to tell us if Vito's son's behaviors were believable, in a boy his age who has lost his father, who has found out that his father was gay, and who is being bullied at school over it? I can believe that these experiences would be rough on a young man, but does it ring true to form that his reactions would be consistent with what we saw on the show?

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I don't think the death of Hesch's girlfriend was a hit. If Tony's going to pay Hesch anyway, then why bother with a hit? And why hit her and not Hesch? Why make the hit so oblique? Hits are supposed to be obivious if they are sending a message.

I think Tony will continue to be short of cash. I think it's part of the story line and will play a big part in where the show goes. Tony needs bucks, Tony is losing control, etc etc.

Unless the plot reveals something to the opposite, my assumption is that the gambling problem would continue.

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I missed something and hope that someone else can clear it up. When Hesch's girlfriend died, was it a hit ordered by Tony, or just due to natural causes? I couldn't tell as I watched the show.

If it was a hit ordered by Tony, then Tony's coming by and dropping off the money, with some meager and stilted words of sympathy, seems to have been a very cold message that you don't get pushy about repayment of debt.

If it was due to natural causes, then Tony's coming by and dropping off the money, with some meager and stilted words of sympathy, does not seem to fit in with the genuinely warm relationship which Tony and Hesch have had over the several years of the show. Perhaps it was meant to convey that Hesch's insistence on payment had ruined their personal relationship.

And then why did Tony look so happy and satisfied as he left Hesch's house? It could have been that he was happy to have the debt paid off and behind him, happy that his order to kill Hesch's girlfriend had such a negative impact on Hesch, happy to have paid an old friend an appropriately helpful visit (showing a lack of understanding on Tony's part). What was it? I can't tell.

The episode guide at HBO says it was a stroke.

http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/episode/index.shtml

I had some of the same confusion. My take-away is that was a reinforcement of the fact that Tony is business first (i.e. he was glad the debt was settled), personal relationships a distant second (notwithstanding his generally superficial concern for others). In other words, even though we the viewers may find this guy charming or amusing, he is still a cold-blooded pr*ck.

Edited by Eric

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I missed something and hope that someone else can clear it up. When Hesch's girlfriend died, was it a hit ordered by Tony, or just due to natural causes? I couldn't tell as I watched the show.

If it was a hit ordered by Tony, then Tony's coming by and dropping off the money, with some meager and stilted words of sympathy, seems to have been a very cold message that you don't get pushy about repayment of debt.

If it was due to natural causes, then Tony's coming by and dropping off the money, with some meager and stilted words of sympathy, does not seem to fit in with the genuinely warm relationship which Tony and Hesch have had over the several years of the show. Perhaps it was meant to convey that Hesch's insistence on payment had ruined their personal relationship.

And then why did Tony look so happy and satisfied as he left Hesch's house? It could have been that he was happy to have the debt paid off and behind him, happy that his order to kill Hesch's girlfriend had such a negative impact on Hesch, happy to have paid an old friend an appropriately helpful visit (showing a lack of understanding on Tony's part). What was it? I can't tell.

The episode guide at HBO says it was a stroke.

http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/episode/index.shtml

I had some of the same confusion. My take-away is that was a reinforcement of the fact that Tony is business first (i.e. he was glad the debt was settled), personal relationships a distant second (notwithstanding his generally superficial concern for others). In other words, even though we the viewers may find this guy charming or amusing, he is still a cold-blooded pr*ck.

Thanks for that information on her death. I wish that the show's script was as clear as the online episode guide.

I had always thought that Hesch was one of the few, or perhaps the only, person who Tony really liked. Tony has always turned on a very shallow, superficial charm for almost everyone. Now it seems that he doesn't care about Hesch either.

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If Tony were a real person -- and for moment, I'll assume he is -- the reason he turned against Hesch is that Tony displayed weakness or vulnerability to him; he had to borrow money from Hesch, couldn't pay it back right away, and Hesch knew why. Not a good thing if you're a mob boss. Likewise, I'll admit that it was a nice touch that Phil's approach to Vinnie's son was totally cruel, crude and obtuse, while Tony's up to a point was based on a fair degree of insight and empathy -- but then Tony's eventual remedy (paying to have the kid hauled off to some deprogramming camp) turned out to be far more brutal (and quite likely will be more destructive to the kid's well being) than anything Phil could have dreamed up.

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I don't think the death of Hesch's girlfriend was a hit. If Tony's going to pay Hesch anyway, then why bother with a hit? And why hit her and not Hesch? Why make the hit so oblique? Hits are supposed to be obivious if they are sending a message.

I think Tony will continue to be short of cash. I think it's part of the story line and will play a big part in where the show goes. Tony needs bucks, Tony is losing control, etc etc.

Unless the plot reveals something to the opposite, my assumption is that the gambling problem would continue.

That is my take - Tony may think it (i.e. the gambling) is over, but I don't think so.

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If Tony were a real person -- and for moment, I'll assume he is -- the reason he turned against Hesch is that Tony displayed weakness or vulnerability to him; he had to borrow money from Hesch, couldn't pay it back right away, and Hesch knew why. Not a good thing if you're a mob boss. Likewise, I'll admit that it was a nice touch that Phil's approach to Vinnie's son was totally cruel, crude and obtuse, while Tony's up to a point was based on a fair degree of insight and empathy -- but then Tony's eventual remedy (paying to have the kid hauled off to some deprogramming camp) turned out to be far more brutal (and quite likely will be more destructive to the kid's well being) than anything Phil could have dreamed up.

Also, Tony and the others the Bing were so worried about the impact on the younger sister of her brother's negative behaviors, but seeing her brother hauled forcibly away by strangers in the middle of the night is likely to cause greater damage to her than if she had just continued to live with her brother.

I mean, couldn't he have just transferred to another school--isn't there a private school or alternative public school in every American city with a program for emotionally disturbed children? In our public school district, it's the Behavior Disordered program--get that kid an IEP and let them work their magic. Why were the only alternatives for him going to his particular school or sitting idly at home when he was expelled from it?

Edited by Hot Ptah

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