Super Cheap Classic Albums Sets

[StarThrower]

Has anybody bought any of these sets? I was thinking of picking up a couple to fill some gaps in the collection. I don't know what to believe about the sound. The opinions vary greatly.

[J.A.W.]

They're released by Real Gone Jazz, a European public-domain label. They don't have access to original sources like master tapes, so don't expect too much of the sound quality. The recordings are in the public domain in Europe, but not in the United States, where these sets are not legit.

[StarThrower]

Sometimes I wonder how much it matters? Rudy Van Gelder had access to his own masters, and some of those RVG editions don't sound too good.

To my ears, the only classic jazz recordings that sound really great are on the Contemporary label. The best sounding Blue Notes I've ever heard are the Ornette Coleman At The Golden Circle volumes which were not recorded by tin ears Van Gelder.

[J.A.W.]

Sometimes I wonder how much it matters? Rudy Van Gelder had access to his own masters, and some of those RVG editions don't sound too good.

To my ears, the only classic jazz recordings that sound really great are on the Contemporary label. The best sounding Blue Notes I've ever heard are the Ornette Coleman At The Golden Circle volumes which were not recorded by tin ears Van Gelder.

These recordings are modern jazz, not classic jazz.

These sets include Blue Note, Riverside and Verve recordings and I prefer to hear them on their official labels.To my ears many of the official labels' masterings vary from decent to good, though I don't like RVG's remasters either.

Edited February 27, 2012 by J.A.W.

[StarThrower]

The "official labels" are all owned by giant corporations. I bought a few titles on the Spanish Lonehill Jazz label, and they sound great!

[J.A.W.]

I bought a few titles on the Spanish Lonehill Jazz label, and they sound great!

To each their own.

Edited February 27, 2012 by J.A.W.

[jazzbo]

A previous thread discussing similar sets from this company:

[JSngry]

The "official labels" are all owned by giant corporations.

Yes, and?

[J.A.W.]

The "official labels" are all owned by giant corporations.

So?

[edit]

Just saw Sangrey's post above.

Edited February 27, 2012 by J.A.W.

[StarThrower]

The "official labels" are all owned by giant corporations.

Yes, and?

...and there's no guarantee of superior quality, or if they actually pay the artists or their heirs.

How many times have these big labels reissued the same titles before we actually got to hear the

original masters? And how many times have they butchered recordings with horrid remastering?

The answer is over and over.

[J.A.W.]

The "official labels" are all owned by giant corporations.

Yes, and?

...and there's no guarantee of superior quality, or if they actually pay the artists or their heirs.

How many times have these big labels reissued the same titles before we actually got to hear the

original masters? And how many times have they butchered recordings with horrid remastering?

The answer is over and over.

What's that got to do with public-domain labels?

Anyway, those labels have been discussed here (and elsewhere) ad nauseam, to no avail.

Edited February 27, 2012 by J.A.W.

[StarThrower]

Your right! To each his own. I'll buy the so called "official" releases for living artists. As for the dead ones who recorded 50+ years ago, I'll leave my options open.

[JSngry]

Their survivors hope you hav4e a nice day!

[StarThrower]

Their survivors hope you hav4e a nice day!

Show me some proof that Sony, EMI, Universal, etc. are paying these folks the proper royalties and I'll feel guilty.

Besides, I already own hundreds of jazz titles issued on the "official labels.

[JSngry]

Oh, so the assumption is that the media companies are guilty until proven innocent, eh? Very nice, very emo, but also very fucktardish as citizenship - just make excuses for settling for the lowest common denominator, the lower it gets, oh well, not my fault! This is not well-considered consumership, this is just intellectual and moral slackdom of the most odious order.

Do you remember when Blue Mitchell's widow got a buttload full of money? You think Miles' estate doesn't get paid? You think Horace Silver's son is not making sure money is paid as due? Woody Shaw's son?

Not everybody made good deals, not everybody has good representation, and not everybody pays what should be paid. But it's too easy to sit there all slack-jawed and think, hey, they're all crooks, so fuck it. I'll take whatever is out there.

Besides, if you're willing to pay for cheap pirating of other people's work (you don't think that these sets are anything but - at best - lifts from other, legitimately issued sets, do you?), then you're a chump, and that is your business. You can get that type of thing for free, easily.

And yeah, they're legal in Europe. Whores are legal in Nevada. Laws and morality only sometime are relevant to each other.

[J.A.W.]

You think Horace Silver's son is not making sure money is paid as due?

Horace Silver is still with us He's 83.

Edited February 27, 2012 by J.A.W.

[JSngry]

Yes he is, but he's got Alzheimer's or some such (or so it's been siad?), and his son appears to be handling his affairs now.

I only hope that Horace is comfortable and that Gregory is handling the business well.

[StarThrower]

First of all, I haven't even purchased any of those Classic Albums sets. If you read my post, I mentioned that I already own hundreds of officially released jazz titles. I was just getting some discussion going here. If you don't think the big companies screw over artists, than you are being very naive. Numerous prominent artists over the years have discussed in interviews how they were screwed over by these major labels. Frank Zappa had good legal representation, and a very specific contract, but Warner Brothers betrayed their binding agreement. Same for Al Kooper and many others. There's a very good reason the big companies here in America have opposed music as public domain. And it's not because they give a damn about the artists or their families.

[J.A.W.]

Yes he is, but he's got Alzheimer's or some such (or so it's been siad?), and his son appears to be handling his affairs now.

I only hope that Horace is comfortable and that Gregory is handling the business well.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[JSngry]

First of all, I haven't even purchased any of those Classic Albums sets. If you read my post, I mentioned that I already own hundreds of officially released jazz titles. I was just getting some discussion going here. If you don't think the big companies screw over artists, than you are being very naive. Numerous prominent artists over the years have discussed in interviews how they were screwed over by these major labels. Frank Zappa had good legal representation, and a very specific contract, but Warner Brothers betrayed their binding agreement. Same for Al Kooper and many others. There's a very good reason the big companies here in America have opposed music as public domain. And it's not because they give a damn about the artists or their families.

Oh boo hoo. The world is a bad place and The Music Industry is full of bad evil people. Crooks, liars, thieves. And even Quincy Jones!

That's the way of the world, pete.

Substituting cheap bullshit for more expensive bullshit doesn't stop the bullshit, it only makes for less cash flow to go around and even more, even cheaper bullshit.

That too is the way of the world. Learn it now and live it later.

See you at Wal-Mart!

Yes he is, but he's got Alzheimer's or some such (or so it's been siad?), and his son appears to be handling his affairs now.

I only hope that Horace is comfortable and that Gregory is handling the business well.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Not sure if it's Alzheimer's...don't want to be irresponsible here, but I do think he's become "infirm" for some reason. Gregory is running the website, etc., and, I assume, taking over the family business as appropriate.

If any of this is not accurate, a correction would be most welcome.

[StarThrower]

Well JSngy, the next time you buy an official jazz title wearing your Chinese sneakers, jeans, and shirt manufactured by people making .50 cents an hour, I hope you feel morally superior.

[JSngry]

Oh, we're playing that game, eh? Cheap, really cheap. See what you get when you start going for the okey-doke?

I never feel morally superior, just morally aware. Which I suppose is superior to being totally clueless, but that's just gonna be what it's gonna be.

And I don't wear sneakers. I wear Vans. Better grip on the soles, and much better ankle support.

And I buy new, at full retail, at stores that employ people with real jobs, as well as sustain networks of distribution and packaging and manufacturing that, yes, does include the proverbial 50-cent/hr Chinese laborer. I get good shoes, and a lot of people get jobs ranging from really good to really average to really piss-poor.

What I don't do is go to the "flea-market" and buy cheap knockoffs for some ridiculously low price that still come from the same 50-cent/hr Chinese(or elsewhere) worker but do not sustain the same networks with anywhere near the same amount of cash going into anywhere near the same number of people's hands.

There ain't no perfect world. But making it cheaper ain't gonna automatically make it better.

[mikelz777]

Getting back to the original question, I think the sound on them is just fine. I own two of them, am pleased with both and would buy more of them if I lacked whatever was contained in them and was interested in the music/artist. In most cases with these sets, I already own most if not all the original releases for those artists I'd be interested in. For the two I own, much of what's in the sets are OOP, hard to find, or only available at a prohibitive cost. For me, it came down to not having the music because it was unobtainable/too expensive or having the music (albeit, no frills) at a very attractive price. Apparently, I'm part of their target audience.

[king ubu]

Jim, I didn't search around a lot, but a quick search found this here, confirming what you (and I) assumed:

http://www.christianmcbride.com/scrolls/scroll_mythang_output.html?id=87

Note that it's from 2007... and that Silver retired several years before that, even (2004 I think).

[StarThrower]

Hey, I agree! And I hope Horace Silver, Wayne Shorter, Bobby Hutcherson, Freddie Hubbard, Andrew Hill, and Jackie McLean got paid for all of those Blue Note albums I bought. And you won't see me at Wal-Mart but a few times a year buying some cat litter.