Any good starter compilations of Thelonious Monk? (on CD)

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, Eric said:

This ...

 

Bingo!

[Rooster_Ties]

I think I'm going to go with the one-two punch of Monk/Trane Carnegie, and also the Ken Burns comp.

The guy only has ~20 jazz CD's, so it's not like he's gonna delve into a 3CD set that deeply (probably).

I checked, and the only(!) Trane he has yet, is on Kind of Blue -- so the Monk/Trane thing is as much to get him started on Trane (seripticiously).

 

(He also doesn't have any Charlie Parker, and I happen to have an extra dupe of the Bird/Diz at Town Hall disc, on Uptown -- so he'll be getting that too.)

[HutchFan]

Lucky friend!

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Interesting...did you notice the difference between LP sound/cut lengths and those of the 78s in any way? Just wondering, because for me, I did, at first anyway, and not always positively. Also, though, the first LPs of the BN material (the old "red and green ones") were in no way chronologically programmed, and that was a distraction for me. Not until the 70s 2-fer did they get grouped by session order, and that helped me a lot.

Just asking, because so often when asked for recs for a new listener, we reflexively want to start them at the beginning, and that's an iffy proposition sometimes. But you never know!

I had a decent collection of Jazz LPs, but no Monk, so I can't speak to the differences you asked about. 

As for starting at the beginning, it's tricky, IMO. Sometimes you want to start someone out there just because the earliest material tends to be lacking when compared with the heyday material, and you'd hate to see it go unappreciated because it doesn't stack up to the artist in their prime. Though in Monk's case I really don't feel like the Blue Note material in notably inferior at all. 

Then again, I'm a huge fan of the Columbia era, so... 

[JSngry]

Oh, I love the Blue Note stuff as a whole, but at least as much in terms of "things to come" as what's actually there. Of course, the longer you listen to it, the more it all comes into place, and everybody who's serious about Monk needs to get to that stuff, needs to. That and the Minton's things.

But, case in point - "Evidence". I heard the BN version first, and had no idea what the real head was until a few years later. I got that something magical was going on, but the realist in me had a need to know what was making that magic happen. Were they working off a pitch sequence with no rhythm or what? Who had the lead, Bags or Monk? What was the basis for this open/deep-ended piece of music? Then once hearing the real head, BAM! everything snapped into place. What was magic then became highly advanced science. I'm the type of guy who loves magic, but only for so long.

Also, some of the earliest stuff is just not gelled, the players are very much feeling their way through it, which is a delightful thing to hear when you know how those stories develop and end, but that's a different lesson, right? The BN "Round Midnight", my god, Sahib Shihab became a wonderful player, but before that, this. No idea why, but it took me a whole to consider that there might have been a reason other than uh. Or maybe they're not yet removed from the whole "swing-to-bop" thing, which makes for a delightful piece of historical window-ism, but not everybody's looking for that, right?

The best of the Blue Note stuff doesn't need those considerations. I just worry about giving somebody with no real background of the whole Monk thing a chronological set and expect them to be fully wowed just because. In a perfect world, that works, but...

[Rooster_Ties]

1 hour ago, HutchFan said:

Lucky friend!

Yeah, there are certain titles that, whenever I find 'em used (and cheap), I'll grab 'em as extras -- you know, just for emergencies.

That Bird & Dizzy Town Hall thing is one of them.  I've got a box of about 30-40 CD's -- all dupes -- that really aren't trade-bate or anything, but more stuff to lay on just the right person, whenever I get around to crossing paths with them.

[HutchFan]

10 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Yeah, there are certain titles that, whenever I find 'em used (and cheap), I'll grab 'em as extras -- you know, just for emergencies.

That Bird & Dizzy Town Hall thing is one of them.  I've got a box of about 30-40 CD's -- all dupes -- that really aren't trade-bate or anything, but more stuff to lay on just the right person, whenever I get around to crossing paths with them.

Very cool! Sharing music with folks who might be receptive to it & building up lots of positive karma in the process. True "jazz evangelism" -- in the best sense of the word.

Both Walter Sobchak and I salute you! 

 

[Scott Dolan]

10 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Also, some of the earliest stuff is just not gelled, the players are very much feeling their way through it, which is a delightful thing to hear when you know how those stories develop and end, but that's a different lesson, right? The BN "Round Midnight", my god, Sahib Shihab became a wonderful player, but before that, this. No idea why, but it took me a whole to consider that there might have been a reason other than uh. Or maybe they're not yet removed from the whole "swing-to-bop" thing, which makes for a delightful piece of historical window-ism, but not everybody's looking for that, right?

The best of the Blue Note stuff doesn't need those considerations. I just worry about giving somebody with no real background of the whole Monk thing a chronological set and expect them to be fully wowed just because. In a perfect world, that works, but...

Yeah, I hear all of that. I suppose it all comes down to properly reading the person you're recommending this music to. Do they need training wheels, or are they already adventurous and perfectly amenable to the sausage making process? 

I had just come off of a full year of listening to Zappa almost, if not entirely (I can't recall if something else snuck in), exclusively. So my mind was wide open to any and every possibility under the sun. 

[felser]

These two later Riverside reissues from a J.M. Fields coutout bin were my intro.  I had never heard Monk before, but had heard OF him and had discovered Coltrane, and they were like $.57 each (and the first is 2 LP's), so easy call and I was/am so thankful:

[JSngry]

Am I reading the AMG right that the Burns thing has no Prestige material on it?

That's not a disqualifier, of course, but damn, that's some consistently excellent Monk!

6 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

I had just come off of a full year of listening to Zappa almost, if not entirely (I can't recall if something else snuck in), exclusively. So my mind was wide open to any and every possibility under the sun. 

Zappa was my link between Hendrix and jazz. Funny how that works.

What I didn't realize until decades later was that Zappa was also my gateway to "modern classical music". Took me a while to see that gate, much less walk through it. But revisting Lumpy Gravy & Uncle Meat a few moths ago, yeah, ok, I knew I had hear that "thing" somewhere before!

[Simon Weil]

5 hours ago, JSngry said:

I wonder how many people of our ages actually started hearing Monk with the BN sides vs how many came to them with at least a little awareness of what was to follow.

Speaking for myself, I had a general idea of Jazz being "where the real stuff was" - as a vibe. This played out over the years. One of the guys who evidently was part of this "real stuff" was Monk. So I was on the look-out for something I could buy - but I had to have a positive direction to go. I have the vague idea of a specific mention of the Monk/Jackson sides - and buying Vol 1 of the BN records.

[JSngry]

That was the red one, right?

[Simon Weil]

My memory is of buying that one later. The Red one comes up as Vol 2 on google.

[Rooster_Ties]

2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

Yeah, I hear all of that. I suppose it all comes down to properly reading the person you're recommending this music to. Do they need training wheels, or are they already adventurous and perfectly amenable to the sausage making process?

I'm reading this guy as being more of the "just dipping his toe in the water" type. He only picked up Kind of Blue (as his very first jazz CD) about 8-10 years ago, and he's only got 20 jazz CD's (in 5+ years), so his interest is really more along the lines of jazz being a curiosity.

 

He streams a lot of stuff on Pandora (maybe not tons of jazz), and he only very selectively buys stuff (physical product).  He's much bigger into visual arts, and only goes to concerts about 3x per year (but 2-3x gallery openings every month + museums all the time).  I think he said he only had maybe 200 CD's total (all varieties of music).

[Brad]

52 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I'm reading this guy as being more of the "just dipping his toe in the water" type. He only picked up Kind of Blue (as his very first jazz CD) about 8-10 years ago, and he's only got 20 jazz CD's (in 5+ years), so his interest is really more along the lines of jazz being a curiosity.

 

He streams a lot of stuff on Pandora (maybe not tons of jazz), and he only very selectively buys stuff (physical product).  He's much bigger into visual arts, and only goes to concerts about 3x per year (but 2-3x gallery openings every month + museums all the time).  I think he said he only had maybe 200 CD's total (all varieties of music).

Maybe it would make more sense to give him the name of three or four songs he could check out on Pandora or YouTube. 

[Rooster_Ties]

21 minutes ago, Brad said:

Maybe it would make more sense to give him the name of three or four songs he could check out on Pandora or YouTube. 

I'm sure he's heard a bunch on Pandora.  I think he said he's been listening to a Monk 'channel' on Pandora for a few weeks (off and on), with Monk as the only seed.

Which is probably the only reason he's to the point where he thinks he wants a good compilation -- not really as a starter -- but as a collection to really be his one (or maybe one of a very few) actual Monk purchases.

As someone (me) who's owned over 10,000 CD's over the last 30 years (only about 40% of them jazz) -- it's hard for me to wrap my head around picking just the ONE, very best CD to represent a particular artist (or maybe 2 discs at most).  But (somehow) there are people who don't dig as deeply into this stuff, as so many of us here do.

He said after he got Kind of Blue, he really (really) loved it -- but it took him over a year to figure out which Miles CD to buy next (and he's only up to 3 Miles discs, 8 years later).

Not saying he's nuts or anything, but it's certainly a different way of thinking.

[Brad]

I see.  Perhaps he’s not into having a lot of CDs and wants to be careful so he doesn’t have clutter. In addition, as far as Miles (or any prolific artist) goes, choosing what music you may want to listen to next can be daunting. 

[Scott Dolan]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

That was the red one, right?

Nope. Blue, so says my set. 

Took a pic, but can’t post it because the file is too big. I honestly don’t get how this site works at times. 

[JSngry]

The 12" that were from my generation (and probably several generations) were red and green (or, it seems, green and red), Vols 1 & 2:

but then if you wanted to get )most of) the rest of it, you had to go to a Milt Jackson LP from the same series:

I get how p[eople back then weren't necessarily looking at records like this as a thing to be collated and threated archively, they were just looking for some good records, and for Blue Note, hey, they kept them in print damn near forever, so there had to have been a market. But by the time I got there, it seemed a little scattered.

So BN gets sold to Liberty, Liberty gets sold to UA, these suckers are STILL in print, only one day, this is on the shelves, and I'm like, holy shit, HERE we go:

Everything from those old LPs, only in session order AND the two Kenny Hagood dates which to me were (and still are) a TOTAL gas. I was long familiar with the "celebrated" solo version of "I Should Care" but here, on this vocal record, all the key elements are in there (which again, I'd never have guessed that tthat would lead to THAT excpet in retrospect).

Then the Mosiac came out with a buttload full of unreleased alternates, and now there it all is on CD, but...I couldn't wait for all that.

[Spontooneous]

Maybe a good, immersive club or concert recording is better for this purpose than a scattered anthology? I consider myself fortunate that my first Monk album, circa 1983, was "Live at the It Club" (a new release at the time). The quartet's in good spirits, and quite a few of the most-famous tunes are represented. The double-CD reissue from Columbia does it justice. 

In the same vein, the "Live in Tokyo" double on Columbia and the "Live in Stockholm" set that was on both Dragon and DIW. 

(But not the Columbia "Live at the Jazz Workshop" double. Weird vibe in the air that night, and everything seems a little bit off.)

OK, fellow posters, now you can talk smack about Rouse, Dunlop and Riley. 

[felser]

I'd just start him with "Monk's Music".  That will tell him enough about Monk to know if he wants to go further.  

[JSngry]

Mine would be Brilliant Corners, but, yeah.

[John L]

You really can't go wrong with anything that has been recommended here so far.  Maybe he can go on youtube (if he doesn't have spotify) and listen to a few samples from the Blue Note, Prestige, Riverside, and Columbia years before deciding where to take the first deep plunge. 

 

 

[Scott Dolan]

Jim, they must have changed things for the box set. It has a stripe down the left side of each cover. So the volumes show as blue, red, green, and purple respectively. 

Here’s a bad pic I found online. 

[Dave James]

5 x 5 by Monk. 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Dave James