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BFT 189 link and discussion

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Is #4 either Phil Ranelin or Dick Griffin?

Also, the drummer on #2 is not Elvin or Roy Haynes, correct?

No on #4.   Better known player.  Not Elvin or Haynes on #2.  More obscure.  Drummer led date though the pianist and trombone player on the date are much better known.

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Track 1 — The Visitors!  Earl and Carl Grubbs.  Title track from this.  Ken Eisen introduced me to this when Carl released kind of a return album about 20 years back.  I can’t say I love the brothers Grubb, but I certainly do take to the feel of this music.  They made the most of their family(ish) connections.  To my ear, this is where Kamasi is coming from.

Track 2 - Bert Myrick.  This was in a BFT awhile back and blew my socks off.  Found the album digitally and snagged it.  The whole album doesn’t have what this track does, but it’s good.  This track is transcendant!  Track 2, Scorpio’s Child, from this.

Track 3 - I’ll be wrong, but that sure sounds like a Frank Zappa band.  Anton Lavay? :D A bit on the poppy side for my tastes, but it grooves like a sonovabitch.

Track 4 - Vocalist doesn’t sell me, but that ‘bone sure does.  I like the song (and it’s super familiar for some reason).  Seems like a non-technique guy like Dick Griffin, but it’s not him.  Love the drumming on this.  In fact, love everything about the rhythm section.

Track 5 - Too much reverb to be Khan Jamal, which was my first thought.  Not Bryan Carrott.  I’m stumped.  It’s got a good groove, in spite of the ECM sound.

Track 6 - Some powerful oboe.  I know the oboe players tend not to like the “Jazz” oboe players.  I like oboe doublers for the same reason I like flute doublers — they tend to get a bigger sound out of the instrument than those who focus on that instrument.  I’m not blown away by the oboe work, but I do like the sound and the blend of the instruments/voices.  Sounds like a 70s soul jazz tenor player based on the lines (somebody like Harold Alexender, but more polish).  And I’m a sucker for Rhodes.

Track 7 - Airegin, a la…???  Sounds like it could be Eric Alexander, but a bit beefier tone (a little less like George Coleman).  There’s the Coleman-isms.  I’ll double down and say Eric.  This is flat burnin’.  Could be Farnsworth, though it sounds less like Billy Higgins than Joe usually does.  But that level of facilty, burn and polish on tenor has to be Alexander.  I’ll say it’s from this (a little sleuthing once I committed to Eric).  For my money, Eric Alexander has it ALL over Potter/Turner/Whomever.

Track 8 - Song is reminiscent of Emily, but clearly not that.  I like the arrangement — a very Gil Evans vibe.  I know that tenor, but I’m sucking wind.  It’s a nice track.  I want to find something to push me away from it because I can’t peg the tenor, but this is excellent.

Track 9 - Somebody is making a very strong tribute to Art Blakey.  I have a sneaking suspicion… nay… I retract that.  Art Blakey is making a very strong tribute to Art Blakey, as well he should.  Clearly a later, live Messengers date.  Sure sounds like Woody’s trumpet to me.  Trying to place the piano.  Some voicings like Harold Mabern, but not him.  Not John Hicks.  Onaje Alan Gumbs?  That’s GOTTA be Carter Jefferson.  Just enough Wayne Shorter, but something personal and crying in that tone (unlike the later clones).  Carter always sounded like he was just on the Harold Vick side of Wayne Shorter, and I like that.  BEASTLY drum solo!  

 

 

Welp, egg all OVER my face for missing Khan Jamal.  I need to listen on better speakers (keep saying it, but not doing it.).

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57 minutes ago, tkeith said:

Track 1 — The Visitors!  Earl and Carl Grubbs.  Title track from this.  Ken Eisen introduced me to this when Carl released kind of a return album about 20 years back.  I can’t say I love the brothers Grubb, but I certainly do take to the feel of this music.  They made the most of their family(ish) connections.  To my ear, this is where Kamasi is coming from.

Track 2 - Bert Myrick.  This was in a BFT awhile back and blew my socks off.  Found the album digitally and snagged it.  The whole album doesn’t have what this track does, but it’s good.  This track is transcendant!  Track 2, Scorpio’s Child, from this.

Track 3 - I’ll be wrong, but that sure sounds like a Frank Zappa band.  Anton Lavay? :D A bit on the poppy side for my tastes, but it grooves like a sonovabitch.

Track 4 - Vocalist doesn’t sell me, but that ‘bone sure does.  I like the song (and it’s super familiar for some reason).  Seems like a non-technique guy like Dick Griffin, but it’s not him.  Love the drumming on this.  In fact, love everything about the rhythm section.

Track 5 - Too much reverb to be Khan Jamal, which was my first thought.  Not Bryan Carrott.  I’m stumped.  It’s got a good groove, in spite of the ECM sound.

Track 6 - Some powerful oboe.  I know the oboe players tend not to like the “Jazz” oboe players.  I like oboe doublers for the same reason I like flute doublers — they tend to get a bigger sound out of the instrument than those who focus on that instrument.  I’m not blown away by the oboe work, but I do like the sound and the blend of the instruments/voices.  Sounds like a 70s soul jazz tenor player based on the lines (somebody like Harold Alexender, but more polish).  And I’m a sucker for Rhodes.

Track 7 - Airegin, a la…???  Sounds like it could be Eric Alexander, but a bit beefier tone (a little less like George Coleman).  There’s the Coleman-isms.  I’ll double down and say Eric.  This is flat burnin’.  Could be Farnsworth, though it sounds less like Billy Higgins than Joe usually does.  But that level of facilty, burn and polish on tenor has to be Alexander.  I’ll say it’s from this (a little sleuthing once I committed to Eric).  For my money, Eric Alexander has it ALL over Potter/Turner/Whomever.

Track 8 - Song is reminiscent of Emily, but clearly not that.  I like the arrangement — a very Gil Evans vibe.  I know that tenor, but I’m sucking wind.  It’s a nice track.  I want to find something to push me away from it because I can’t peg the tenor, but this is excellent.

Track 9 - Somebody is making a very strong tribute to Art Blakey.  I have a sneaking suspicion… nay… I retract that.  Art Blakey is making a very strong tribute to Art Blakey, as well he should.  Clearly a later, live Messengers date.  Sure sounds like Woody’s trumpet to me.  Trying to place the piano.  Some voicings like Harold Mabern, but not him.  Not John Hicks.  Onaje Alan Gumbs?  That’s GOTTA be Carter Jefferson.  Just enough Wayne Shorter, but something personal and crying in that tone (unlike the later clones).  Carter always sounded like he was just on the Harold Vick side of Wayne Shorter, and I like that.  BEASTLY drum solo!  

 

 

Welp, egg all OVER my face for missing Khan Jamal.  I need to listen on better speakers (keep saying it, but not doing it.).

1 - Agree on the feel.   I always liked pianist Sid Simmons with that group.. This was the sound of early 70s Philly Jazz, ad is #6.

2 - Did not realize that had been done before in BFT.  Agree, a transcendent track from a good album.   Discerning listeners need to figure out the trombonist and the pianist/composer.

3 - A classical piece performed by a very versatile and talented organist from the rock/pop world.

4 - Surprised no one has gotten this.  Little known album by a major bonist/composer (that's a clue).

5 - Previously ID'd.  BTW, Bryan Carrott had worked with my friend Ruth Naomi Floyd.  He is a amazing player when permitted to spread his wings.

6 - This was a good, overlooked Philly group.  Tenor player is not known as a soul jazz guy despite his work in this group, and he and the bass player have a major connection on their resume.

7 - Yes, Alexander and Farnsworth.  You and I are apparently the biggest Alexander fans on the board.

8 - Previously ID'd, fabulous arranger.   I'm not big on the tenor player in general but do like his work in this group.

9 - Not Carter Jefferson but I do get where you are coming from.  This tenor player/composer is a favorite of mine.  Pianist is a contemporary of the ones you name and equally well known.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by felser

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On 12/2/2019 at 10:57 AM, felser said:

Cool, thanks!  But no Gene Harris :D

 

Thanks John for an interesting set - I'm pretty sure I got a couple. Everybody check if there's a blue moon. :g

Track 1 - Soprano is just a hard instrument for me to deal with. Always has been ...

Track 2 - I felt very lucky when Jim Gallert gifted this recording to me many years ago, when there were initial plans to reissue it. I am extra lucky to have very recently taken it out of the stacks and listened again, as I am not sure if I would have ID'd the track from my very own BFT #16 if I hadn't heard it again recently. I can't believe that BFT was 2004 and it didn't actually see release until 2017 according to discogs.

Track 3 - nothing for me here I'm afraid.

Track 4 - vocalist really lost me quickly but I am very glad to have let the track continue as the 'bonist is very nice.  No ideas though. Would really enjoy this track if it faded up on the trombone and out before the vocal came back.

Track 5 - Not a vibist I know but I do like the, how shall I say this? Vibe? :g  

Track 6 - we're back to instrumentation that doesn't do it for me ...

Track 7 - It sounds like EA, who I once thrilled to but as I have shifted a lot of listening to midsize groups, riffing behind the soloist kind of swing era jazz I find this kind of modern soloist plus rhythm less enjoyable. In fact, it feels "cold" to me. I may get back to Eric Alexander some day but I am not feeling like its anytime soon.

Track 8 - I got nothin'.

Track 9 - Well that is Blakey and oh, hello there Mr. Shaw.  Long track, started to lose me after Woody.  Did Woody play on a Blakey album with Schnitter? He's one of those post-Trane tenors who don't work for me. Which can be good when it saves me money on a possible purchase. Mileage, of course.

Thanks again Felser, we presenters gotta support each other!

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Thanks John for an interesting set - I'm pretty sure I got a couple. Everybody check if there's a blue moon. :g

Track 1 - Soprano is just a hard instrument for me to deal with. Always has been ...

Track 2 - I felt very lucky when Jim Gallert gifted this recording to me many years ago, when there were initial plans to reissue it. I am extra lucky to have very recently taken it out of the stacks and listened again, as I am not sure if I would have ID'd the track from my very own BFT #16 if I hadn't heard it again recently. I can't believe that BFT was 2004 and it didn't actually see release until 2017 according to discogs.

Track 3 - nothing for me here I'm afraid.

Track 4 - vocalist really lost me quickly but I am very glad to have let the track continue as the 'bonist is very nice.  No ideas though. Would really enjoy this track if it faded up on the trombone and out before the vocal came back.

Track 5 - Not a vibist I know but I do like the, how shall I say this? Vibe? :g  

Track 6 - we're back to instrumentation that doesn't do it for me ...

Track 7 - It sounds like EA, who I once thrilled to but as I have shifted a lot of listening to midsize groups, riffing behind the soloist kind of swing era jazz I find this kind of modern soloist plus rhythm less enjoyable. In fact, it feels "cold" to me. I may get back to Eric Alexander some day but I am not feeling like its anytime soon.

Track 8 - I got nothin'.

Track 9 - Well that is Blakey and oh, hello there Mr. Shaw.  Long track, started to lose me after Woody.  Did Woody play on a Blakey album with Schnitter? He's one of those post-Trane tenors who don't work for me. Which can be good when it saves me money on a possible purchase. Mileage, of course.

Thanks again Felser, we presenters gotta support each other!

 

 

Dan, thanks for taking the plunge into my waters, which I know often aren't your cup of tea!  I do appreciate the support, and this BFT has been a much happier experience for me than last year's.  Amazing that two people ID'd #2, thought that was the toughest one.  You are also correct on #7 being Eric Alexander, and #9 being the Blakey Jazz Messengers with Woody Shaw.   Hope you further check out the artist on #8, especially as you move to listening to larger groups more.  Actually surprised (and pleased) that you like #5.  Artists in #1,#5,#6 are (or were) Philly guys from the era when I cut my jazz teeth.

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Track #6 with oboe fascinated me. Based purely on the Philly hint, the group must be Catalyst? Highly interesting personnel, but I've never heard them :(. Will take some more work to identify the tune.

R-1619310-1516824045-7841.jpeg.jpg

OK, East by Catalyst; originally on eponymous 1972 Cobblestone album, found a clip from the 32 Jazz 2-disc compilation. Odean Pope on oboe!

Thanks for the enjoyable BFT, my first participation.

Edited by T.D.

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4 hours ago, T.D. said:

Track #6 with oboe fascinated me. Based purely on the Philly hint, the group must be Catalyst? Highly interesting personnel, but I've never heard them :(. Will take some more work to identify the tune.

R-1619310-1516824045-7841.jpeg.jpg

OK, East by Catalyst; originally on eponymous 1972 Cobblestone album, found a clip from the 32 Jazz 2-disc compilation. Odean Pope on oboe!

Thanks for the enjoyable BFT, my first participation.

Correct!  And Tyrone Brown on bass, both went on to do fantastic work with Max Roach in the 80's (and Pope had played with Roach even earlier).  Eddie Green on rhodes, Sherman Ferguson on drums.  Thanks for participating in the BFT, glad you enjoyed it and that you will continue!

Edited by felser

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13 hours ago, felser said:

Actually surprised (and pleased) that you like #5.  

Seeing the answers and doing a little investigating would this be his most accessible/inside recording? I was going to post that I felt like this was a guy who was inside/outside and maybe was holding back but instead I just went for the vibist/vibe pun.

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5 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Seeing the answers and doing a little investigating would this be his most accessible/inside recording? I was going to post that I felt like this was a guy who was inside/outside and maybe was holding back but instead I just went for the vibist/vibe pun.

He has done a broad range of work,  much quite outside, some even kind of commercial.  This cut is a good representation of where much of his work lies, especially his Steeplechase recordings.  Others here will have additional thoughts.

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Up for a last gasp before the year end reveal.

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This is a very enjoyable BFT. It is the first time that I can’t identify anything on one of your tests. Usually I know some of the tracks as soon as I hear them. But I have found this BFT most rewarding to listen to. 

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45 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

This is a very enjoyable BFT. It is the first time that I can’t identify anything on one of your tests. Usually I know some of the tracks as soon as I hear them. But I have found this BFT most rewarding to listen to. 

Bill, I find that to be the best combination, where I hear new things that I really like.  It is also economically the most perilous!

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Coming in under the wire! I literally started listening to this, and making my notes, 3 weeks ago. Learned soon after that my wife was going to need major surgery, and the rest is a blur. On the other side now, she is recovering, and all will be well. And I even managed to get this in before the end of the month! I see the reveal has already been posted, so I'll head over there in a minute to see if my answers made any sense. This was a GREAT set of tunes... many thanks to you, Felser, for this! There are many things here that I can tell I'm going to need to investigate further...

1. Right off the bat I love this...the bells, that bowed bass... gotta be McBee or Reggie Workman. Oh MAN. When that feel comes in...hoo boy! This is right up my alley. Very much a Pharoah vibe happening here. Wait...this has got to be Pharoah on soprano. Jesus this is good. I LOVE the drummer on this, there's a circular kind of thing going on in the drums that is just killer. What a band!

2. Really like this piano player. Love this tune and the feeling is right on. Right away I can tell this one is right up my alley too. I wish the horns were mixed a little louder. This has got to be the piano player's date. Or at least the piano player's tune. Soulful stuff here, really digging this. That's not Buster Williams, is it? No. Wow this is good. Love this trombone player! I suspect I will slap myself on the forehead when I read the reveal on this one. This is killer.

3. Oh man... what is this?? I know this tune but I can't think of the name. Good god. This is very cool... fusion bordering on Canterbury prog. I'm not super familiar with Brian Auger but wondering if it's him based on the keys here. This is a fun listen. It's driving me crazy that I can't ID the tune... it's just on the tip of my brain.

4. This is my kind of BFT. Again I love the feel of this. Wild guess on the trombone player-- Grachan Moncur? Wondering if this could be one of those BYG/Actuel records. Some very interesting stuff from the pianist, wow. I can't wait to see the reveal, so far I'm really anxious to learn what all of these are. I don't love this composition, to be honest, but the solos & playing on the rest of it more than make up for that!

5. Vibes! I can dig it. The bass & drums are great... supple support with a lot of sparseness, openness. Hang on, is this Khan Jamal on vibes? Yes! And that's definitely Johnny Dyani on bass. Can't remember the drummer though. I don't have this album, but I need it! This is excellent.

6. Does it get better than oboe and Fender Rhodes? Not really. Or wait, is it oboe? I don't think it's a soprano. Oh wow, I dig that bass groove. Tricky meter...in 9 I think? I really like what the drummer is doing too. And I love the background vox that just sort of "melt" in. This is very cool. This has the sound of something on the Black Jazz label. Again, anxious to learn who this is.

7. Oh boy...struggling with the tune name again. Airegin? This is burning, and is technically great, but I don't "feel" it as much as the other tunes here. It just doesn't scratch the same itch for me. Great playing though. I really like the piano player especially. So far there are a lot of pianists on this BFT that are standing out for me.

8. This is really nice. Beautiful and haunting... I love that lush chordal bed underneath the tenor soloist. Really great arranging. This is heartachingly beautiful...the tenor player and the rest of the band are all right there in the same space, in perfect sync with each other. Love this.

9. Okay, that's a hell of a drum solo out front. The Moontrane! Is this Woody's band? I'm embarrassed to say I can't ID him as well as I should be able to. This definitely sounds like it could be him though. This is killing. Boy, this tenor player is on fire... and sounds damn familiar too. Reggie Workman on bass maybe? A little hard to get the tone of the bass, but it's a hell of a solo. Wow. OK, I don't know how I didn't catch this before but that's gotta be Blakey on drums. Maybe Jazz Messengers from late 60s, early 70s?

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1 hour ago, webbcity said:

Coming in under the wire! I literally started listening to this, and making my notes, 3 weeks ago. Learned soon after that my wife was going to need major surgery, and the rest is a blur. On the other side now, she is recovering, and all will be well. And I even managed to get this in before the end of the month! I see the reveal has already been posted, so I'll head over there in a minute to see if my answers made any sense. This was a GREAT set of tunes... many thanks to you, Felser, for this! There are many things here that I can tell I'm going to need to investigate further...

1. Right off the bat I love this...the bells, that bowed bass... gotta be McBee or Reggie Workman. Oh MAN. When that feel comes in...hoo boy! This is right up my alley. Very much a Pharoah vibe happening here. Wait...this has got to be Pharoah on soprano. Jesus this is good. I LOVE the drummer on this, there's a circular kind of thing going on in the drums that is just killer. What a band!

2. Really like this piano player. Love this tune and the feeling is right on. Right away I can tell this one is right up my alley too. I wish the horns were mixed a little louder. This has got to be the piano player's date. Or at least the piano player's tune. Soulful stuff here, really digging this. That's not Buster Williams, is it? No. Wow this is good. Love this trombone player! I suspect I will slap myself on the forehead when I read the reveal on this one. This is killer.

3. Oh man... what is this?? I know this tune but I can't think of the name. Good god. This is very cool... fusion bordering on Canterbury prog. I'm not super familiar with Brian Auger but wondering if it's him based on the keys here. This is a fun listen. It's driving me crazy that I can't ID the tune... it's just on the tip of my brain.

4. This is my kind of BFT. Again I love the feel of this. Wild guess on the trombone player-- Grachan Moncur? Wondering if this could be one of those BYG/Actuel records. Some very interesting stuff from the pianist, wow. I can't wait to see the reveal, so far I'm really anxious to learn what all of these are. I don't love this composition, to be honest, but the solos & playing on the rest of it more than make up for that!

5. Vibes! I can dig it. The bass & drums are great... supple support with a lot of sparseness, openness. Hang on, is this Khan Jamal on vibes? Yes! And that's definitely Johnny Dyani on bass. Can't remember the drummer though. I don't have this album, but I need it! This is excellent.

6. Does it get better than oboe and Fender Rhodes? Not really. Or wait, is it oboe? I don't think it's a soprano. Oh wow, I dig that bass groove. Tricky meter...in 9 I think? I really like what the drummer is doing too. And I love the background vox that just sort of "melt" in. This is very cool. This has the sound of something on the Black Jazz label. Again, anxious to learn who this is.

7. Oh boy...struggling with the tune name again. Airegin? This is burning, and is technically great, but I don't "feel" it as much as the other tunes here. It just doesn't scratch the same itch for me. Great playing though. I really like the piano player especially. So far there are a lot of pianists on this BFT that are standing out for me.

8. This is really nice. Beautiful and haunting... I love that lush chordal bed underneath the tenor soloist. Really great arranging. This is heartachingly beautiful...the tenor player and the rest of the band are all right there in the same space, in perfect sync with each other. Love this.

9. Okay, that's a hell of a drum solo out front. The Moontrane! Is this Woody's band? I'm embarrassed to say I can't ID him as well as I should be able to. This definitely sounds like it could be him though. This is killing. Boy, this tenor player is on fire... and sounds damn familiar too. Reggie Workman on bass maybe? A little hard to get the tone of the bass, but it's a hell of a solo. Wow. OK, I don't know how I didn't catch this before but that's gotta be Blakey on drums. Maybe Jazz Messengers from late 60s, early 70s?

First off, glad your wife is recovering - what a frightening occurrence!   Great work on the BFT.  You were the only one who got Moncur (and even the label!), and the only one who showed any love for the Auger cut.   Glad to have introduced you to the Visitors.  They did four albums on Cobblestone/Muse, but only this one made it to CD.    Young Stanley Clarke on bass BTW.  Kenny Cox is the man on #2.  Catalyst (#6) was another Philly band who made four albums for Muse, same as the Visitors.  Odean Pope on oboe, Sherman Ferguson on drums.  By all means please check out Schneider, start anywhere!   My main man Carlos Garnett on tenor on the Blakey/Shaw cut.  Don't know why he doesn't get more acclaim than he does.  This is a treasure.   Thanks again!

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