BFT 88 Discussion

[Dan Gould]

Links and discs just went out but its July 1, I've been waiting a while for this, so let's get the party started.

Contrary to my signup announcement, there is a theme which I suspect more than one person will get. In fact, this BFT may have something in common with Garrison Keilor's fictional town where every child is "above average" - I have a feeling everybody will get at least two or three tracks right at least as to soloist.

So if anyone wants to join in the fun please PM for download or CDR service. And mikeweil, please PM me your email address or clear off space in your in-box so I can send you the download link.

Thanks to one and all.

[mikeweil]

Sorry - done - looking forward to this!

[Jim R]

Okay, I've managed to spin this once, so here are my initial reactions...

1. Sonnymoon For Two. Don't know who's playing alto here, but he definitely came ready to play. I know Sonny Criss recorded this for Prestige, but that wasn't live. Anyway, nice opener, Dan.

2. Lester Leaps In. Sounds like an all-star jam type of deal… maybe a reunion situation. Heard "yeah, George" (?) during the tenor solo… George Auld, perhaps? Maybe Hamp on vibes? Not crazy about the trumpet solo. Got more out of the piano and trombone solos. Overall, although swing may be "the thing", it's never really been my thing. Pleasant, though.

3. What's New. To my ears, kind of an odd-sounding group (the combination of instruments, I guess). Odd applause in the middle of the bone solo, too… maybe this was recorded in another country…? The whole thing is kind of stiff, and suggests to me that these guys were unfamiliar with each other. Don't really care for the acoustic guitar sound, or the player… the trombone I liked a bit better.

4. Don't know the tune, but it's pretty cool- along with the arrangement. I'm not big on big bands, but this is tight and impressive stuff. I'm kind of drawing a blank on alto battles in this kind of setting. One guy gets a bit of a Phil Woods sound at times, but I'm not prepared to say it's Woods.

5. Memories Of You. The guitarist's tone is very Bucky Pizzarelli-ish (7-string with a low A string), but his technique, chord voicings, and phrasing seems perhaps a bit less like Pizzarelli. I'll go with B.P. for now, though. Don't know who's playing tenor, although it's nice.

6. A blues that I'm not recognizing. First tpt solo reminds me a bit of Clark Terry...

7. Lover Come Back To Me. Never a big fan of this tune, or this style. The drumming (especially that cymbal) seems rather monotonous on this one. Sounds like Slam Stewart on bass.

8. Work Song. Kenny Burrell is the guitarist, but I don't think I've heard this…? 1970's perhaps? I wouldn't exactly choose this if I was trying to turn somebody on to K.B. A bit choppy. But hey, it's live.

Btw, Dan, I lost my filemaker pro database in a hard drive crash in January, so I can't cheat as well as I used to.

9. In A Mellow Tone. Not sure who the trombonist is. The pianist is reminding me somewhat of Eddie Higgins, though it would be a stretch for me to make that an official guess. Actually, I don't think it's Eddie, but he's got a similar command and uses the range of the instrument very nicely. Overall, this recording doesn't do a lot for me, though.

10. Nica's Dream. The "yeah, yeah, yeah… work, work, work" was a bit distracting at times, but I liked this track.

11. Sister Sadie. Hmm… a live version that I don't think I've heard. This is groovy. Great rhythm section work. Love the way Horace (?) comps on both horn solos.

12. Don't know this tune, but as with track 4, I'm impressed. Even more so here, actually. Kind of an updated Basie feel in the opening. Top notch playing and arranging throughout. Not that they aren't good anyway, but it seems like it would be hard for the soloists to go wrong with that kind of support going on behind them. This is the kind of big band stuff that really holds my attention.

Now I'll have to re-listen to some of these and see if I can actually come up with some guesses. Thanks much, D.G.

[Dan Gould]

Well I'm not going to give up my secrets too quickly here but as usual, Jim is strong on the guitarists ... I'll bet you'll come back with some more correct guesses after you listen a second or third time. There are a couple there I was pretty sure you'd get.

[JSngry]

Freshly showered, with post-Anniversary Day (28!) bliss intact & post-Ranger-gutless-implosion rage subsiding (or at least staring to, maybe, kinda, sorta, uh....no, not really...), all the while wondering whatever happened to Stanley Myron Handleman and/or Gary Muledeer, the usual thanks and disclaimers are firmly placed in place in order that accordingly we may proceed, to wit:

TRACK ONE - A little too on top of the beat for my taste, but that's personal preference only. Is that Bobby Durham on drums? Alto player is pretty breathless, again a little too much for my taste. Richie Cole?

TRACK TWO - Interesting phrasing on the head, most people play the repeated notes long, these guys do 'em short. Nice tenor playing! Good control of the alternate fingerings, really good. Gotta be Hamp on vibes, I hear him making those noises, and I hear his playing voice as well. Fullest possible props for Lionel Hampton, always. Sweets? That's a guy who has a patented "sound" that he used to great effect career-wise but didn't just do that. Some love for Sweets here. No real idea otherwise, but this be swingin'!

TRACK THREE - What's new? The sound of that guitar chording for one thing...almost like a dobro or something. Not sure if I grasp what the bass player is doing, or more to the point why he/she is doing it, but..we all make choices, right? That trombonist almost had a big disaster on the opening phrase but did some serious pro moves to avert. Skills on display! That guitar player is off into some kind of a thing that I don't know if I get, but they seem confident in the veracity of their statements, and they were there at the time, so...benefit of the doubt. All in all, a performance that sounds like it's got a story to it, even if it's a mystery to me.

TRACK FOUR - Oh lord, I don't want to like this...bad lab band flashbacks aplenty await,,,,but I do like it, just becuase it's so damn well-played...I'm hearing a strong Cannonball voice in one of the altoists. And that band is roaring, even if the chart makes them play too much (the lab band walking wounded called it HIGHERFASTERLOUDER and if this is not that, it certainly indicates a propensity to not walk away should the opportunity be offered). bottom line - these cats got it going on, so, yeah, do it. I can feel the brotherhood of players playing together with nuanced, neon though it may be at times, and you hear that less and less in big bands, and that's a shame. Big bands can be so damn cool, but too seldom are these days. Besides, that's a pretty cool tune.

TRACK FIVE - Scott Hamilton? Nice playing, very mature, well-paced. Tenor gets kind of Zoot-y after the guitar solo (and is that one or two guitarists?), but not wholesale. I like it, it's a good song well-played.

TRACK SIX - Clark Terry, immediately evident, even it the ensemble (unless, of course, it's not, in which case...it's not?) A pretty damn frisky Clark Terry at that! Damn, there's that Sweets lick again, so maybe it's Sweets (in which case, see above re:the versatility of Sweets beyond his signature licks) & CT. Yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. No problem with that!

TRACK SEVEN - I like that tune, "Lover Come Back To Me", nice bridge. Sure sounds like Ben to me. I love Ben. If it's not Ben, somebody has no shame. But that's gotta be Ben. And Sweets again? Really, really digging the bass playing on this one. The time starts to go astray at the beginning of the piano solo, but he keeps it right there & pretty soon everything falls back into place. Again, skills. Jo Jones on drums? Oh yeah, Ben on them fours, GO BEN! Ladies & Gentlemen, Ben Webster, ALL-TIME MOTHERFUCKER!!! Slam Stewart, no wonder! That's some real-deal shazzit right there, ALL of it!!! Forces of nature.

TRACK EIGHT - Tone sounds like Burrell, a little louder than I'm used to from him, but the tone is there. This is the Burrell that was so big in the hood back in the day, before he hooked up with The Helen Keane Machine, not that there's anything wrong with that. Susw aounds a little high or something, very atypical to his "image". Don't know if it's a jam or his regular working group, interesting drum solo, but no matter. Real life in action!

TRACK NINE - Nice trombone solo, good pacing, takes his time, and uses some obvious harmonic devices to lead off into some personal lines, not just rote change playing. Full scale piano playing too, skills on display, kinda Hines-Meets-Wilson-and-they-decide-to-go-into-business-together. Not a "great" cut, but pretty damn nice.

TRACK TEN - Not sure if that tune benefits from being played that fast...and then faster...and then still faster...is that an electric bass? Not really feeling this one, sorry. They're trying too hard. To do what, only they can say.

TRACK ELEVEN - I'm not sure I could do business with a person who found this unpleasant, much less welcome them into my life.

TRACK TWELVE - Some kind of Mulligan/ CJB thing, not "Bluport", but...something. Yeah, something, that's what it is! When Mulligan was in his zone he really understood what he needed to do in order to do what he wanted to get done, and that's not something that happens as often as you might think. That's why there's businesspeople involved, not that there's anything wrong with that either. We got Mulligan, Brookmeyer, Zoot, all bumping it up a notch or two, Bill Crow(?) and maybe it is "Bluport" after all? Recording sounds like it's at Newport...I only know the Vanguard version, but maybe this predates that, which would explain the title coming into the Vanguard...Mel Lewis was such a fine big band drummer, even if it's not him on this cut...no idea who that trumpeter is, pretty sure it's not Mel Lewis, though. There's some music being made here!

The BFT theme, it seems to me, is live recordings of an..."unofficial" nature, none of which have Mel Leis on trumpet. I'm a fan, and I do thank you for sharing!

[mikeweil]

Just having a first listen - a nice compilation, not the type of jazz I am listening to these days, but it is enjoyable, and the sequencing is great, making it a fun listen. It's hard for me to identify players, but here are some first guesses:

# 6 - one of the trumpet players should be Clark Terry, I'll be working on identifying the other one. Nice exchange.

# 7 - Ben Webster? If so, he's in a relaxed mood and having a good time. Buck Clayton or someone influenced by him on trumpet? Or Ruby Braff?

[mikeweil]

# 7 - not so sure about the horns anymore - but this should be Slam Stewart doing a short hum at the end.

# 8 Kenny Burrell!!! Nice funky intro with Nat Adderley's Work Song following. I love Kenny's playing. p.s. nice drum solo - hardly anyone still uses his knuckles like this anymore - but I don't know who this could be. They were having a very good time here. Great live track!

Edited July 4, 2011 by mikeweil

[Dan Gould]

As usual Jim has some spot-on comments, and some where I haven't a clue what he's talking about.

So is Track 11 simply not unpleasant?

[JSngry]

Track 11 is mighty fine AFAIC, Sounds like Horace w/Junior (but not Blue?) I'm just allowing for differences in taste. I can see some kind of people not really getting into it, but actually finding it unpleasant is not a thing I would allow for.

[BillF]

Many thanks for the disc, Dan, which arrived today.

Just a few preliminary comments building on what's already been said:

Track 3 Is the guitarist Charlie Byrd?

Track 5 Sounds like the later Zoot

Track 6 I'm sure I hear Roy Haynes there.

Track 7 Ruby Braff, Ben Webster and Slam Stewart

Track 12 Live recording of the Gerry Mulligan Concert Jazz Band playing "Blueport" with solos by Gerry, Bob Brookmeyer, Jim Reider in place of Zoot Sims (?) and Don Ferrara (or just possibly Nick Travis).

Wonderful taste you have in music, Dan.

More later.

Edited July 10, 2011 by BillF

[Dan Gould]

Glad you're enjoying it, Bill. And I'm equally impressed with the skills you've displayed so far, particularly the four for four of this:

Track 12 Live recording of the Gerry Mulligan Concert Jazz Band playing "Blueport" with solos by Gerry, Bob Brookmeyer, Jim Reider in place of Zoot Sims (?) and Don Ferrara (or just possibly Nick Travis).

You shouldn't have doubted your initial instincts, they were spot-on.

[BillF]

Glad you're enjoying it, Bill. And I'm equally impressed with the skills you've displayed so far, particularly the four for four of this:

Track 12 Live recording of the Gerry Mulligan Concert Jazz Band playing "Blueport" with solos by Gerry, Bob Brookmeyer, Jim Reider in place of Zoot Sims (?) and Don Ferrara (or just possibly Nick Travis).

You shouldn't have doubted your initial instincts, they were spot-on.

Thanks, Dan! Now for a few wild guesses:

Track 1 John Handy??

Track 2 Bill Harris (or Dicky Wells)??

Bill Pemberton??

Oliver Jackson??

Track 6 Trumpeter with Clark is Howard McGhee??

Track 10 Lem Winchester??

[Dan Gould]

Hmmm, your average just took a major hit.

But that's a good call on the trumpet duel.

[Jim R]

10. Nica's Dream. The "yeah, yeah, yeah… work, work, work" was a bit distracting at times, but I liked this track.

So, I was just sitting here listening to a new acquisition (updated, that is, cuz I already had the original vinyl version), the Fresh Sound release of The Mastersounds first album. It includes two previously unreleased bonus tracks, "Bela By Barlight" and "Caravan". As I'm listening to "Caravan", I hear a lot of vocalizing, including a lot of "yeah, yeah" and "work, work" (and a lot of other stuff... this is one wild and crazy studio track). DING. I immediately knew what band was playing Dan's version of Nica's Dream, and also remembered that I have a live (Newport Festival) recording of the Mastersounds, which I apparently have not played for a long time. One of the tracks is... Nica's Dream. Mine seems to be 17 seconds longer than Dan's, but it turns out it's the same recording.

[Dan Gould]

Well Jim I am glad you puzzled it out now rather than doing the face-palm thing after the reveal if you hadn't gotten it. But between the instrumentation, the fact that they did a Plays Horace Silver LP and the recent, seemingly endless discussion about the source material for that over-dubbed LP, I really figured you'd get it sooner.

[JSngry]

Were all these cuts recorded at Newport, or at least a Newport Festival like Newport/New York?

[Jim R]

Well Jim I am glad you puzzled it out now rather than doing the face-palm thing after the reveal if you hadn't gotten it. But between the instrumentation, the fact that they did a Plays Horace Silver LP and the recent, seemingly endless discussion about the source material for that over-dubbed LP, I really figured you'd get it sooner.

[BillF]

Track 5 A bit of research suggests this from an album called Double Exposure, which comprises two live audience sessions, one by Stan Getz and one by Zoot Sims. Here we're hearing Zoot and Bucky Pizzarelli; Buddy Rich and Milt Hinton are also on the session, but are clearly silent here In time I guess we'll see the album cover which features the most unflattering artist's impression of Zoot I've ever seen

(Of course, all this could be completely wrong )

[Dan Gould]

Two weeks to the reveal ... ... I sure hope we'll get some more guesses in.

[Hot Ptah]

Two weeks to the reveal ... ... I sure hope we'll get some more guesses in.

Dan, I am enjoying your mainstream jazz BFT very much. My utter lack of ability to recognize specific players has reared its ugly head, and I am not familiar with a single cut from my album collection--at least not that I can remember now. My lack of guessing is not due to a lack of enjoyment of your BFT.

I realize that when someone puts an odd combination on a BFT, such as a ska/jazz combination with a distorted electric guitar solo in the middle, I can ramble on about the various styles involved which are not jazz, and players I know in them. I am still not guessing the jazz artists involved, but I can fill up space with uninformed blathering. It's more difficult to do that with an all mainstream BFT--I can't very well say, "oh, there's an alto saxophone, I don't know who's playing it, but Charlie Parker played the alto saxophone!" That seems too dumb to put forward.

I will keep listening and if anything comes to me, I will post some guesses.

[Dan Gould]

Thanks, HP. I'm glad that at least you are enjoying the tunes.

[jeffcrom]

I'm a little late in making my comments, but at least I'm not as late as I was to BFT 87, which I just got to a few days ago - three weeks late! I feel like I should have recognized more of this - I predict that I'm going to feel pretty stupid when I read everyone else's comments.

1. Sounds like Sonny Criss. This is very hot, impressive playing, just this side of being frantic. I like it, but it makes me a little nervous.

2. Well, I feel like I should be able to identify all of these folks, but I can’t, except that the tenor player seems to be named George, if I understand someone’s spoken encouragement correctly. Everyone leaps in nicely here, but on the other hand, nobody really rises above the ordinary – to my ears, anyway. I’m curious, though….

3. When I hear jazz played on a classical guitar, I automatically think of Charlie Byrd, but I don’t think it’s him. Maybe it’s Laurindo Almeida and some Kentonites, but I really don’t know. The trombonist has that Kenton band trombone solo style going on, but I don’t know who it is. This one impresses me rather than moves me, it that makes sense.

4. Wow – nice to hear a big-band alto sax battle; the tenor players usually have all the fun. And this one is fun. The second altoist sounds like Phil Woods to me, but I don’t know when he would have ever been a part of something like this, so it’s probably not him. This was a blast.

5. Nice! “Memories of You” is one of my favorite old pop songs, and this is a very enjoyable version. The tenor player reminds of Flip Phillips, but probably isn’t – I don’t know who anyone is in this BFT, hardly. Thanks for this one.

6. One of the trumpeters sounds like Clark Terry. In any case, they’re both very good, although I enjoy Terry (or whoever it is that sounds like him) more – the playing is more interesting and individual, to me anyway.

7. Ben Webster, I think, and Slam Stewart in the group, playing “Lover Come Back to Me.” Is that Sweets Edison on trumpet? Good stuff, whoever it is.

8. Some young, strong guitarist doing “Work Song.” Once again, don’t know who it, but it’s impressive playing. Like the Sonny Criss, it's almost too much at times. Right around the turn of the 1970’s, I would guess.

9. Very nice, although part of me got slightly annoyed by the extra notes the trombonist put into the melody. That’s just me being cranky, though. Really nice groove. At first I thought this was Vic Dickenson, but some of what the trombonist is doing sounds too modern for Vic. But this is good.

10. Horace Silver’s “Nica’s Dream,” but don’t have a clue who it is. I like the fact that the piano player is kind of sloppy. This is another one that’s good, but doesn’t really reach me for some reason.

11. More Silver by somebody else – “Sister Sadie,” of course. This cooks pretty well – good playing by all involved. I should probably know who it is, but I don’t.

12. Sounds like the Gerry Mulligan Concert Jazz Band. I hear Mulligan, Bob Brookmeyer and Zoot Sims (I think). I don’t know who the trumpet player is, and I can’t remember the name of the tune. Nice chart; swinging band. I like this a lot.

Thanks for a very hard-swinging BFT. Off to read the rest of this thread now.

[jeffcrom]

Okay, I don't feel too stupid yet, although I will if that really is Richie Cole rather than Sonny Criss on track 1.

[tkeith]

The usual disclaimers. Jesus! Did I do shitty on this one! Nice BFT, though, lots of great stuff with an over arching hard swinging feel. Thanks!

Track 1 - Cooks like hell. Sonny Moon For Two, a la Sonny Criss? Nope... too raunchy for Criss, but some of those lines sure sound like him. I want this is it's not buried in the archives.

Track 2 - Lester Leaps In. Man... that tenor sounds WAY familiar and I can't pull him out. But the aggressive runs are throwing me off. I know this guy. Jesus... I should know everyone here, but I keep thinking "He almost sounds like." This has the feel of one of the Buck Clayton jams, but beyond that, I'm striking out.

Track 3 - What's New. I like the trombone, but the guitar doesn't resonate with me.

Track 4 - This rapid-fire brassy big bands don't resonate with me. Alto player is smokin' though. Sounds like Cannonball, but the band sounds like it's from the 80s or later, which leads me to assume it's maybe Snidero with Toshiko's band.

Track 5 - Sounds like Zoot to me. I don't recognize this, and I have a lot of Zoot. Very warm tenor sound. This is perfect chillin' music... nice drink, dark room... yeah. No clue on the guitarist... very understated.

Track 6 - Sounds like one of the Basie trumpeters. Too brassy to be Thad... Joe Newman? Again, cooks like a sonovabitch! Third listen, man that really sounds like Thad to me. I have to have this! Not sure of the second, really sounds like two Basie guys to me.

Track 7 - Well, shit, that's Ben. No doubt about that. I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but it sounds like Ruby Braff on trumpet to me. Major Holley on bass. I don't think I have this.

Track 8 - Hilarious! That voice in the beginning sounds like a golf commentator. I assume that's intended, cracks me up, though. Work Song, or shame on them if it isn't. I like it, but it wasn't maintaining my focus. Fun though.

Track 9 - In a Mellow Tone. No clue beyond that, but doesn't seem like a guy from that era.

Track 10 - Nica's Dream (good tunes in this BFT!). Diggin' the hell out of those drums. Has the sound of a Pablo date. Again, cooks like hell. That piano is familiar as hell.

Track 11 - Back-to-back Horace - Nice! Sister Sadie. Equal parts Mobley and Billy Mitchell, but not quite as polished as either. Maybe Teddy Edwards? Doesn't quite have Teddy's boldness. Doesn't quite have the cook of the previous tune, but very nice. Almost like a Xanadu date.

Track 12 - This seems like a copout, but it sounds like Mulligan to me. But I like the 'bone too much for it to be Brookmeyer. Bitchin' solo work all around. Could this be one of the Concert Big Band Recordings?

Thanks again!

Reason for edits: Sorry, I was working from two computers and some of my comments on 7 & 8 didn't get copied, so I merged them.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Thom Keith

[JSngry]

Okay, I don't feel too stupid yet, although I will if that really is Richie Cole rather than Sonny Criss on track 1.

Ditto for me if it's the other way around!

Track 8 - Hilarious! That voice in the beginning sounds like a golf commentator.

Are you old enough to remember the "pass the word, the chicks are back" Carter Hall pipe tobacco commercial? That's what came to my mind.