AllenLowe

Jeff - if you have Devilin Tune I think there's a Carl Elmer solo - maybe on a small group thing with James, though truth is my memory fails me now. I also have an LP set of that band. I think Elmer disappeared into Vegas. But man, he had those real bebop chops with a nice funky sound, IIRC.

I agree, it's complicated - and I've seen it from both sides - I will say that Affirmative Action has been corrupted by dumbass liberals, who fail to see anything but color as a qualifier; we see it in jazz audiences, in Euro attitudes toward Negritude and exoticism. It's a mess, I agree, but the basics of Affirmative Action is that it has helped millions and millions of people in the US.

I didn't say we shouldn't talk about it - just that we shouldn't throw it away because of anecdotal B.S. Affirmative action is an attempt to re-define what qualifies people for employment, not promote people of lesser abilities - and my point was that you can't throw it out as preferential treatment unless you throw out ALL OTHER preferential treatment, which not-so-coincidentally favors white people. Even the New Deal made agreements with the devil to discriminate against African americans in the South; the legacy of Jim Crow is far from resolved. A Post-racial society? Listen to Santorum and Gingrich. also - Clarence Thomas wouldn't be on the Supreme Court except for racial preference - remember that he was, essentially, appointed as the one African American there. THAT was B.S., I agree; but it does not negate all the benefits of Affirmative Action, which has had massively positive effects on balancing the action in the USA. They also did it for the Jews - in the 1960s, Ivy League schools made conscious decisions to admit more Jews, who were serieously under-represented. These are things you gotta do when you live in a society as thoroughly racist and xenophobic as this one.

btw, that Boogaloo thing is worthy of Don Ellis, with a few alterations - and yes, that's the Buddy Rich who was a great drummer - when, IMHO, he wasn't leading his own band. And harry james sounds great - note, I think, the Robbin's Nest quote on A Train - and High Society near the end.

whoa, let's not throw affirmative action into the grinder here. It's much more complicated than that. Eliminate it if you like, but first create a level playing field in employment - no legacy hiring, no friends, no nepotism, no prior contacts. Then we'll talk.

am I the only one who finds Shaw's recordings disappointing? He's obviously a fine trumpeter, but I always wondered (as I mentioned elsewhere) if he needed a strong leader to bring out the best in his playing.

it's a funny situation, however in my new spirit of reconciliation I will let it go (that plus regular dosages of Prozac) -

some unsolicited Harry James suggestions: 1) the small group session with the Basie-ites (Herschel Evans, Jo Jones - maybe -, et al ) - late '30s? 2) Soundrtrack to Young Man With a Horn. Almost boppish at times, by way of Ray Eldridge, along with Doris Day. 3) the 1948 HJ big band had an amazing trombonist named Carl Elmer; a bebopper in the same league, IMHO, as Jimmy Knepper.

http://www.indiegogo.com/RECORDING-PROJECT-WITH-EVERY-MUSICIANS-IN-NYC?a=324935

unfortunately not - though that was where I met Haig, also, btw, Frank Wright used to hang out at the Angry Squire.

the Angry Squire - went there a lot. Saw Jaki B; Barry Harris did an amazing night right after Monk died, all Monk tunes; also, the location of Al Haig's very last gig (with Ben Brown and probably Jimmy Wormworth, IIRC) -

hmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I had one of his LPs which was ok but not great; I always wondered if he was another of those musicians who needed a strong leader (like Mingus) to kick him in the butt.

good point, Quasi; the Roost session may have been recorded first, issued later. Once again I wish I had questioned Curley more specifically; he told me about a lot of stockpiling of sessions prior to the ban, and he recalled the Roost thing, but it never occured to me that it might be misdated.

well, that argues for a later date on the Roosts, I guess. Interesting.

gotcha - he and Frank Gant used to work with Haig - Gant was good but too loud, I thought. Jimmy was better for a pianist. His son, btw, is also a drummer,

Schlitten seemed really on top of things. Gitler I don't know at all.

can we get a link to the blog?

well. I don't know. What does Gitler think? Like Schlitten, he was around.

not sure what that means.

Chuck - I've listened to so many versions that I don't remember which was which anymore - but that's interesting - I'll dig out the Bluenote box when I have a chance, and give it a run.

he was Al Haig's prime drummer back in the '70s - nice guy, too.

Ben - 1) it's the floridness of I Should Care - which is SO different than the Verve/Bluenotes - that says to me Bud is still working out his approach through Tatum, in particular - and then - wham - they're there on the later ballads - 2) Bud in '46 (and maybe, I hope '47) just has a harder touch and a bit more connectivity to his playing on straight-ahead tunes that (to my ears at least) undergoes a perceivable deterioration through the years - even Ornithology on the Bluenotes, though brilliant, does not sound as rock-like as Somebody Loves Me (or his bebop boys and Bird - on -Savoy sides). it' just the sound - in '46 and (once again I hope '47) it has a more rugged, edgy, 'newness' to it. Not a scientific explanation, but I've been listening to these for almost 40 years and they just sound that way to me - and then - once again this is not documentary evidence - it just seems someone like Curley or Max would have said something over the years if that Roost session had been reported incorrectly - also, Don Schlitten, who first gave me a copy of that LP ( a beatup reissue copy) and who was on the scene all the time in those days, always described it to me as a '47 session.

thanks - to me, that's just a (slightly but significantly) different Bud from '48-'50. Listen also to the Savoys with Bird and the Bebop boys recordings. But mostly it's the '47 (sic?) ballads, which are not nearly as mature as the later ones, like Polka Dots and Moonbeams, Over the Rainbow, Sure Thing, et al.

my evidence is the aural evidence, the ballad playing - I should Care, etc - which is significantly less mature than the the (supposedly) later recordings. I just feel very certain that this is an earlier Bud, on the Roosts - I don't have it in front of me, but isn't Somebody Loves Me on the Roosts? That, also, is, to me, an earlier-sounding Bud.