AllenLowe

Nuns on the Run - one of my favorites; with Robbie Coltrane and Eric Idle.

see, that wasn't so bad.....

that's good - all I wanted was a reasonable discussion. We just got some of it.

so this is my legacy?

well, that's not really was his book is about - it's broader historically and has a lot of 'relevant' observations on jazz's full development and racialization - so it is about Randy's situation at the same time that it is not.

well, I think it's still relevant and important because musicians like Randy Sandke are still feeling the residual effects - and I honestly don't think the race thing will ever go away. Saying it's irrelevant is, in a way, missing the point - it's important to know and talk about in the same way that Jim Crow is important, even though it ended almost 50 years ago. It's part of the cumulative history and the dynamic of not only the musicians but the music. hey, I'm still reading about Cautullus and the Roman Empire.

Chuck - it would be nice to move on, but it is now being discussed on the net, and I think Randy is at something of a logistical disadvantage (he's being attacked from about 3 different sides right now) - I quote Albert Murray because he clearly stands at the philosophical center of Lincoln Center's program, relative to his relationship to Ellison/Marsalis/Crouch; further, he is being depicted as having much more open ideas on race than he does have - and I wanted to report what he said to ME, directly.

my wedding band, September 12, 1982: Randy, Percy France, Dick Katz, Leroy Williams, Skinny Burgan (with Aaron Bell sitting in). Nice night.

oh, sorry, New Jersey - didn't realize you were in the middle of all the action. yeah it does suck when someone makes gratuitous and nasty comments.

yes, she proved I've never been to a Henry Grimes concert. When was the last gig you worked, David?

well no, what bothers me is she wants to quash any open discussion about his music. Read back. She very directly reprimanded me for even bothering to ask the question - here's what she posted: "Allen, first, what recent recordings by Henry Grimes have you heard? There is a list at http://www.henrygrim...CDs-books.html. Secondly, here you're asking whether Henry can still "really play with the depth, freedom, and precision he used to," (yes, he can, and more), and you're asking to read someone's "good musical analysis," and on another page you're asking whether Henry can still play changes (yes, he can, if he wants to and the situation requires it). Last I heard, you were living in the wilds of Maine, so maybe you don't get to any concerts, but when and if you do make it to a Henry Grimes concert (and there've been more than 4OO since mid-2OO3), maybe you can answer your own questions, and maybe you can even write a "good musical analysis." Maybe... " (italics mine)

as usual, 7/4, you have no idea what we're even talking about. as for those comments I made...well, I think they were reasonable and non-destructive. He's out there. He's playing. That's what it all entails. And actually, Niko - if you read back, Margaret was not responding to my critique - she never even saw it - she was responding to my question about whether anyone here had any impressions. She did not like that I even asked the question. A bit of a fascist mentality.

give me a break, Aggie. You are about as perceptive as a slug.' 1) I simply asked for some opinions about how he was playing 2)Margaret was sarcastic and belittling of me and then...I didn't criticize his output, I analyzed it. Not a once did I criticize it - I just voiced my opinion in a reasonable way. Learn to read. my only direct comment on Grimes' laying: "... personally what little I've heard of Grimes' playing seems interesting but strangely random at times; more the memory of a great bassist than great playing. A reasonable response to his current life..." you roll over too quickly, Aggie. Grow a spine.

aggie, look again.

unsure, but I am curious. Brownian? I'll eventually post some clips of Randy at our concert last September that will give some idea; also, if you have my CD Jews in Hell, check him out on "I Licked Bird's Blood."

part of the problem, too, is that Randy is the most under-rated jazz musician on the face of the earth. Because of his lack of public performance opportunities outside of the realm of Dick Hyman (with whom he plays beautifully) few people have any idea of what he can do - inside, outside, chords, no chords, sonically, as a section player, soloist - soul and technique on every kind of tune.

he's still around, age 95, apparently; but I do think that a lot of people, consciously or not, hold the same assumptions, that white jazz players (and I think this attitude is much less prevalent today than it was even 20 years ago) are socially deficient. I have to admit that in my early listening days I even felt that pull -

as far as I could determine, Murray was speaking about jazz musicians in the overall sense. But I think these attitudes are held, consciously or not, by many post-War critics.

I don't know - I can usually tell that Donnie Osmond is white.

"I'm currently on day 15 waiting for the Oscar Peterson Mosaic." actually, I think legally there's now a waiting period on all Oscar Peterson compact discs - it was part of the last Brady bill.

good point - and I've felt that, while few would argue that it is not, in original form, attitudes, rhythms, and style, an African American expression, the further it gets from its folk origins the more it becomes a world music. the other think I would add, and this gets harder to express in ways which don't sound like boiler plate methods of mass-speak happytalk, is that as an African American music it is part of my heritage as well - because any other belief would be truly racist.

some of you may be aware of the recent discussions through Ethan Iverson's blog (Do the Math) and by David Adler on his blog about Randy Sandke's book Where the Light and The Dark Folks meet. One of the disagreements is over the whole Crow Jim thing, about whether or not there is a critical bias, in some quarters, against White musicians. Personally, though this is a complex topic, I have always felt that there is a degree of liberal reparations being paid in the Jazz Critical World, part of an understandable but misguided attempt to address larger social issues in the realm of aesthetics. As to the issue of Lincoln Center and their attitudes, I know first hand the kind of sycophancy that Wynton Marsalis demands as he takes the stage to make his various pronouncements; and years ago I interviewed Albert Murray, one of the guiding forces of that whole program. This is what Murray said to me (we were speaking about race and jazz): "White musicians can never play as well as black musicians; sure, they can learn to play jazz, but it's like learning a second language, you can never be as good at it as you would be if it were your first." Truthfully, I think this is an unwritten code that many critics, black and white, live by, if many times unconsciously.

to me the issue, with my disturbing behavior, is less whether or not Grimes is still a great bassist; it is Margaret's bullying and nastiness to anyone who disagrees with her.

I dunno, the whole mail system is having trouble - 2 packages of things I sold in December were lost in the mail - in 15 years of shipping stuff this never happened - and these were sent first class domestic USPS.

interesting - I just have heard musicians with so many paranoid legal theories (myself included) that I really wonder whether he had grounds. Sometimes they're so used to people stealing from them that they can't tell the difference.