Norm

Thanks for all of the suggestions so far. Fortunately, I've already got a few of those mentioned in which he was a sideman -- Speak No Evil, Roll Call and True Blue (When I was deciding between this and Minor Move I picked True Blue precisely for the reason that Sidewinder mentioned above, that it was hailed as the sister session to Open Sesame) -- and I enjoy each of them immensely. The others mentioned -- Hubcap, Straight Life, and Blue Spirits, I've never heard. I'll have to check them out. One question on the live record from 69 Without a Song. In your opinion, does this record prefigure what was to come (i.e. Red Clay, which I don't have but from what I gather is excellent but has a very different kind of a fusion / funk sound to it), or is it more in line with Hubbard's earlier BN sound, or somewhere in between?

Though I picked up Ready for Freddie and Open Sesame over a year ago, they are just now really grooving with me. These weren't the sort of love-at-first-listen albums the way that some of Lee Morgan's can be, but each of these two albums I find to be so solid and strong. If there are any Freddie fans out there (who like either or both of those mentioned above), I'm wondering what might be a good place to go from here. The only other Freddie album I've heard is Hubtones. I checked it out from the library for a month a while back and while it seemed pretty good, it didn't seem quite up there with these two. Or maybe I didn't give it enough time. Freddie seems to have a fairly big discography but if there are any others with him as leader that you particularly enjoy let me know. Thanks, Norm

I ordered one a few hours ago too. So, when they've done this in the past, you mean they didn't realize the error later on and then cancel all orders at the low price before they shipped out? Just wondering.

This is one I've just placed a reserve on through my library, based on up-thread discussion, to give it a test drive. When you say, "thought that was enough. And it is" I'm a little confused about your meaning (i.e. this is all the live Red you need? you're satisfied with the Concord pressing? a little Red goes a long way? good? bad?). Just curious. I've finally had a chance to give Revisited! and Soul Junction a few spins and I'm liking both immensely. As someone mentioned, those tunes will Burrell on Revisited! are phenomenal in a very subtle way.

I was just checking out the track listing for Freddie Hubbard's Red Clay for the first time and noticed that he covered John Lennon's "Cold Turkey" This gave me an idea for a thread. What particular songs that originate from the genre of pop / rock have fared best when covered by jazz musicians (maybe taken to a level beyond that of the original). Of course, feel free to mention the worst as well.

I just found a brand new copy of Kelly at Midnight through Amazon Marketplace for $3 (plus $3 shipping) and ordered it right away. It seemed to have been mispriced, but I ordered and asked questions later (next cheapest was over $10) By the way, thanks all for your your Kelly recommendations. As noted, I've been just hooked on him and Red Garland lately -- just picked up Soul Junction and Red Garland Revisited!. But I'll soon put in another order with Concord which will include some of the titles mentioned here (definately the Cannonball Quartet Quintet Plus and Blue's Moods). That Wynton Kelly Trio Live at Left Bank looks like it would be great, if a little more difficult to come across on CD.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I had never even heard of this store, though I'm certainly not a native of L.A. On the other hand, I have been to Amoeba Records store mentioned several times and size and offerings of the place just blow you away. Anyway, I'll I have to check out Rockaway Records...a trip to Silverlake this weekend is in order!

Thanks. Its nice to know that Moanin' is out (I didn't realize they were behind on the others). I have a brand new/sealed copy of the U.S. RVG that I ordered from Amazon a while back but didn't bother to open. Meanwhile, I know our library has the RVG version as well so I think I borrow it, order the SACD for CD Pacific and A/B compare them directly on my CDP. That way I can form an opinion and then at least make some of my money back by selling my unopened RVG copy if I truly do prefer on the SACD on my redbook player (it decodes HDCD which seems to be an even less popular format than SACD). BTW, is the acronym you used, HDAD, related to HDCD at all? I haven't really bothered to try to look for HDCDs... As for Blue Train I have only the 1997 Ultimate Blue Train you referenced above but it sounds, from your description, like this new mastering takes the cake. Well, I'll try Moanin' first and work from there. I haven't spent any real time on the Hoffman forum, but on another audio board to which I belong several veteran posters continuously refer to the quality of his masterings.

Just digging into the (purple) four-CD box set of live and alternative takes these days for the first time. Actually this is really my intro to Hendrix -- looks like I have a lot to explore even though he had a short career. As for the three picks, so far I'd say "Voodoo Child (Slight Return) [Live]," "Little Wing" [live], plus one I've just discovered: "Room Full of Mirrors" (all are on disc 3) Jammin'..... I was born in 1973 and the more I get into the good stuff from the 1960s and early 1970s the more I realize the music from my generation just sucks in comparison...I mean not all, but for the most part. What happened? I'd like to blame it on KISS, (All about money, marketing and gimmicks instead of musical innovation and talent) but I realize that its probably more complex than that.

I agree with you up to a certain point. I think being Beatles may have brought out their individual talents more equally over time. But it seems to me that on the verge of their break-up, the four were still not equals in terms of sway within the band. What I gather from the Let it Be film footage and books is that both John and Paul still sort of acted as leaders down to the end, John going with Allen Klein and Paul with Linda's father (?) as lawyer/manager figures to fill the void long left by the death of Brian Epstein. I don't remember the details but it still seems like both of them liked to call the shots down to the end and I don't know if Ringo or George really challenged them. I suppose that one scene where Paul chastens George over his guitar playing particularly comes to mind (and here one must take into account George's response, which was fairly muted). Just my .02.

After running a search, I've found some tidbits of info here and there about these Sbme re-releases, but I'm still a little confused about the nature of this re-issue project. This came to a head when I was searching for Miles Davis' Filles de Kilimanjaro. In Amazon's records, I found two relatively recent issues of this recording: a) Filles De Kilimanjaro (Deluxe Edition) (Bonus Track) [ORIGINAL RECORDING REMASTERED] Sony 2002. b) Filles de Kilimanjaro [ORIGINAL RECORDING REMASTERED] [EXTRA TRACKS] Sbme Special Markets 2008. Both are very inexpensive (6.99 for the latter) with "Used /Like New" copies of the former selling for about the same rate, so I suppose I'm just wondering if these would have the same mastering. For 6.99, I obviously would not expect a new re-mastering, but rather I'm more concerned about the possibility of the recent Sony Sbme being a re-issue of early masterings (i.e. a re-release of the 1990 pressing). Does anybody have any insight into the Sbme's? They wouldn't leapfrog back in time, would they? I don't have any copies of this recording so I'd like to find a decent one. Norm

Do you recommend any books in addition to MacDonald's Revolution in the Head?

Well, I was searching for some more discussion on The Complete "In a Silent Way" Session, my latest Miles favorite, and stumbled across this thread, noting the anniversary of Miles death...which happens to be TODAY....1 more year. And upon reading some of the threads it does kind of boggle the mind that the same guy who did Birth of Cool is also responsible for In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew.

Agreed. And in the Anthology documentary, which I've been viewing in installments again lately, both Paul and George confirm this point. As George put it, "John and Paul had by the mid 1960s already written their bad songs," or something to that effect. And while I agree with your point about "Something" and "Here Comes the Sun" I would also add to that some of the earlier alternative cuts of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" (namely, the ones featured on Anthology 3 and Love) serve as a testament not only to George's progression in songwriting but also his musical talents by the time The Beatles (e.g. The White Album) was recorded and released in 1968, even if his contributions were kind of squeezed out of that one on the whole for probably a variety of complex factors. These alternative cuts of WMGGW nevertheless send shivers down the spine.

Couldn't agree more. +1 Very much in agreement. And I think that the remasters, bringing Ringo's drumming out more prominently, underscore this point even more than previous pressing of their studio albums. Anybody remember when Bono declared in Rattle & Hum that U2 was "more of a band" than the Beatles? I suppose it depends on how he defines "more" but however you want to look at it the Beatles came together and meshed in a way that was pretty remarkable. I forgot which author it was (maybe Lewishohn), but I recall someone mentioning how their (Lenon-McCartney) differentstyles and desire to write great songs not only fueled competition which often led to excellence, but also worked to perfectly counterbalance one another. Of course we have the obvious aforementioned juxtaposition of side A (Lennon) and side B (McCartney) of Abbey Road, but also even within a particular song you can see this counterpoint coming across: take "Getting Better" as an example. It appears to be primarily Paul's song or at least he sings lead, doing justice as only Paul can to the optimistic message that underpins the tune. But then there is the critic / cynic of Lennon('s voice) interspersed in the chorus throughout. Paul: "I have to admit its getting, a little better all the time" John: "It can't get no worse" Yea but the song also includes this excruciating lyric , "I used to be cruel to my woman I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved". I think the whole McCartney needed Lennon for edginess needs to be revisited it's vastly overrated. Mostly I think this has been perpetuated by Lennon himself in a lot of his post Beatle interviews just being a punk and making reference to Paul's granny music. Surely he didn't feel that way when Paul composed the music for 'In My Life' and other various songs that Lennon couldn't finish because he didn't have some of the gifts musically that McCartney brought to the table. Well, I just returned from the library with a copy of Ian Macdonald's Revolution in the Head in hand. With regard to the song "Getting Better," Macdonald suggests that the aforementioned reference to cruelty to woman is indeed John's contribution: p. 242 "Having prepared the music, McCartney invited his partner [Lennon] to his house in St. John's Wood to write the lyric with him -- hence the allusions to angry youth, problems at school, and woman-beating (not to mention the typically sarcastic rejoinder to the title phrase: 'It can't get much worse.'1 1. The pre-LSD Lennon had been cruel to women: 'I couldn't express myself, and I hit.' During the session on 21st March, he got his supply of pills confused and found himself tripping while trying to sing backing vocals. Considering the subject-matter of the song and the fact that the drug tends to confront its users with their personal contradictions, this must have been a disturbing experience. (McCartney is said to have taken his shaken friend back to his house in St. John's Wood and 'turned on' to keep him company."

Can you let us know some of the titles of SACDs you picked up? I'm wondering if anybody's heard the SACD version of Cannonball's Somethin' Else? I don't have an SACD player, but I think my CD player is at least mid-fi to lower hi-fi level and is extremely revealing. Good recordings sound excellent, but terribly recordings...well you get the idea. I only have U.S. RVG of Somethin' Else and though its one of my favorites, the mastering seems pretty bad.

Couldn't agree more. +1 Very much in agreement. And I think that the remasters, bringing Ringo's drumming out more prominently, underscore this point even more than previous pressing of their studio albums. Anybody remember when Bono declared in Rattle & Hum that U2 was "more of a band" than the Beatles? I suppose it depends on how he defines "more" but however you want to look at it the Beatles came together and meshed in a way that was pretty remarkable. I forgot which author it was (maybe Lewishohn), but I recall someone mentioning how their (Lenon-McCartney) different styles and desire to write great songs not only fueled competition which often led to excellence, but also worked to perfectly counterbalance one another. Of course we have the obvious aforementioned juxtaposition of side A (Lennon) and side B (McCartney) of Abbey Road, but also even within a particular song you can see this counterpoint coming across: take "Getting Better" as an example. It appears to be primarily Paul's song or at least he sings lead, doing justice as only Paul can to the optimistic message that underpins the tune. But then there is the critic / cynic of Lennon('s voice) interspersed in the chorus throughout. Paul: "I have to admit its getting, a little better all the time" John: "It can't get no worse"

I agree -- I love that early footage of Zep. How about his incredible solo in Moby Dick at the same Royal Albert Hall date? I mean, he was doing things in there I didn't know were humanly possible until I saw them. Mezmorizing.

Same here....and the track "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" on Abbey Road, amid their last recordings, has me convinced that had the Beatles remained together they would have continued to produce great and interesting stuff in the early 70s. Though the two bands have very different styles and sounds, I still think of Led Zep picking up where the Beatles left off. Now you have me picturing Lennon in his white Abbey Road suit with his shirt unbuttoned to his navel, howling like a banshee. OK, just substitute Yoko for John and maybe it won't be too much of a stretch...

Yes, Amazon just went up to $240 today (it had been at $230 since Aug. 11), but as Hans pointed out a while back CD Pacific has a pre-order price of $216 (plus $5.50 shipping to a U.S. address) or $222 total. I decided to fork over the extra $8 to Amazon because their customer service is second to none in the case of a problem. Maybe CD Pacific is just as good but I've never dealt with them. Anyway, here's the link once again to CD Pacific's item. http://www.cdpacific.com/CDitem.asp?ID=1753008

Speaking for those who have ordered but not received the Mono box set, is there any reason for us to be concerned? I had heard that the original pressing was limited to 10,000 units. I mostly shop through Amazon and it seems that they ran out of preorder stock some time in August. Now, I thought I heard that 20,000 more units were to be issued. Has anybody else heard a figure? Any sense if this figure will meet demand. I didn't put my order in with Amazon until 9/17. I assume that big sellers such as Amazon would get a certain portion of the second run and send them out to customers in the order they received those orders. I really want this and at $230 it still seems like a bargain...but I don't want to have to pay like $400 from an exploitative seller on Ebay.

Same here....and the track "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" on Abbey Road, amid their last recordings, has me convinced that had the Beatles remained together they would have continued to produce great and interesting stuff in the early 70s. Though the two bands have very different styles and sounds, I still think of Led Zep picking up where the Beatles left off.

Nice choice His album XO is particularly well suited for late nights. Other non-jazz singles I like in the wee hours include Creedence Clearwater Revival's cover of "I Heard it through the Grapevine" and Big Head Todd and the Monsters' "Midnight Radio"

It really is a beautiful set! I think it's funny that they packaged each of the extra ITTOD covers in separate plastic sleeves, as well as the alternate LZ1 cover. I now have a few duplicate CDs that will end up in the sale/trade pile, but it seemed like the best way to get everything, at a good price. re: ITTOD, I am almost curious enough to dab a wet cloth across the inner sleeve of this one, to see if the colors show up, like they did on the original LP sleeve. Not gonna do it though. I'm wondering if this set sounds markedly better than the Led Zeppelin 10-disc box set put out in 1993 (remastered by Jimmy Page, I believe). Have you heard those for a comparison?

Well, I'm one of the ones still waiting for the Mono box set to arrive so I can't speak directly to a comparison but I have read in several places that the stereo version of the White Album trumps the Mono. Obviously its a matter of personal taste...and along those lines I've heard that some aspects of Sgt. Peppers are better in mono but the stereo has advantages in other areas. So, in addition to Abbey Road and Let it Be, those fully satisfied with the Mono box set might just want to give stereo versions of the White Album and Sgt. Peppers a listen (if you have a friend who owns either). They might make for good additional supplements. I didn't buy the stereo box set (as I didn't want to waste coin on acquiring the first few albums in stereo) but of the 7 individual stereo albums I've picked up, the White Album sounds the most impressive to me. <<EDIT>>: I just found a link to a review that nicely compares the mono and box sets side by side. This was published just before the release and while there may be a lot of these kinds of reviews, I think this one is particularly well written and to the point. But you have to scroll down a bit (about 1/3 to 1/2 of the page, as its in blog review format with newer reviews posted near the top). http://www.tonepublications.com/music/ (Aug. 27, 2009)