Hot Ptah

Oh,so you underestimate their musical tastes just because they are beautiful young women! You don't want to stereotype a whole group of people now, do you?

While Felser's excellent BFT 115 should still be listened to and discussed, I thought I would start the sign up for my BFT 116 in November. I tried to make this BFT enjoyable to listen to, for all members. To test whether I had achieved this goal, I submitted the BFT to a focus group. Here is the reaction of the focus group as the final seconds of the last track finished playing: Do you want download or disc?

What is interesting to me is that I am close to Felser's age, and was getting into jazz at the same time, and thought that I had pretty much learned about the new releases of the 1970s as they were coming out, but most of his BFT was unknown to me. It's humbling. There is always much more to learn,

Here are my thoughts on this most enjoyable BFT. 1. I like this a lot. I have peeked at the identification by another member. I would never have guessed it. While I was listening to a lot of new jazz in the 1970s, this one passed me by. The energy and rhythms make this a really good BFT opener. 2. I do not know who the tenor sax player is, but he is really good. He has taken in the John Coltrane influence without having it dominate his approach. Certain common Coltrane devices pop out, but he has an original voice overall. Every time I guess Azar Lawrence in any BFT it is wrong, but I will guess Azar again here. 3. This flute player is excellent, and he or she is not any of the most famous name flute players. Joe Farrell comes to mind as someone who played somewhat in this style, but I think this flute player is playing something more challenging than anything Joe recorded on flute, to my knowledge. I want to know who this is! 4. I don't like some jazz vocals much, but I like this one. It is compelling and the lyrics are good. I have no idea who it is, but this is really good. 5. I would not have guessed Max Roach here. I thought the drumming sounded somewhat like Elvin Jones! That would be a major Blindfold Test gaffe if I was a famous musician and said that in a Down Beat Blindfold Test. This is excellent. 6. This is also a very compelling jazz vocal. The vocalist sounds somewhat like Dee Dee Bridgewater when I saw her live about five years ago with a group from Mali. Whoever it is, she does a really nice job with this song. 7. The pianist has studied McCoy Tyner intently. If I had to guess, I would say a young John Hicks, near the beginning of his recording career as a leader. I do not know who the drummer is. 8. I peeked at the Identification by another member. I did not know this album at all. I am very glad to have been introduced to it by this BFT. 9. This track is maddening, because I keep thinking I know who the musicians are, but I can't quite identify them. The bassist sounds like Stanley Clarke at times. There were some CTI full side recordings like this in the early 1970s. I just don't know who it is, but I really like the energy and inspired soloing on this track. I can't wait to find out who it is! Great BFT, John, very enjoyable listening, and everything just obscure enough to make it difficult to identify.

I have listened to this BFT many times in the past two weeks, without viewing the apparently visible tags. The tags are not visible on what I have to play the BFT on. This BFT really makes me think about the nature of BFTs. When I have done a BFT, I try to make it as wildly diverse as possible--a 1920s performance, a Latin jazz track, an avant garde blowout, a jazz/rock fusion piece, a klezmer/jazz mixture, etc. That is only one possibility for how to approach the BFT. This BFT takes a much different approach. I do not know that all of the music is from the 1970s, but it sounds to me like it all could be 1970s post-bop. It is a great listening experience in that style. One more listen and I will give my impressions.

Dan, yes, thanks for that honest report. I wonder how often that happens to members here, with a variety of musicians' recordings, and they don't mention it.

John, the tags did not show up on my car stereo, which sometimes will give the artist and song title on a small graphic display.. This is an excellent BFT for listening enjoyment. I do not recognize any of the songs or artists on first listen (surprise, surprise for me), but will keep listening and give my impressions soon.

This was a fantastic Blindfold Test, and now I have read the Reveal, I am often very surprised. 2. One would think that I would have recognized Sonny Clark, who I like a lot. I have played his albums as a leader very often. But I did not identify him here. Also, one would think that I would have recognized Gene Ammons and Elvin Jones. So that was Bennie Green playing that focused trombone solo. I have never heard of this album before and like this song very much. 3. I should have been able to recognize Red Holloway. I have seen him live several times, and he was always very enjoyable. But I did not even recognize George Benson! 4. Richard Noble is not just a devoted student of John Coltrane. To me, he sounds so exactly like John Coltrane that it is eerie. It seems that many jazz presenters these days are fond of tribute concerts, which are advertised as an adoring program featuring a musician of the past. Richard Noble could have made money doing John Coltrane tribute concerts. Are the pianist, bassist and drummer identified for this song on the album packaging? They do a good job of trying to sound like the classic Coltrane quartet. They can't pull off an exact duplication like Noble did, but they are quite good. 5. This is one of the few Charles Mingus albums which I have never owned, or heard. I have to admit that I was not all that taken with Mingus' piano work on his Oh Yeah! album on Atlantic, so I never tried the Mingus Plays Piano album. Now I will be getting it. This is a beautiful recording, and I absolutely did not know that the musician's main instrument is not piano. 6. I am surprised that I did not recognize Conte Candoli, because I have seen him live and have a number of his albums. I really liked this when I first heard your Blindfold Test, and now I am surprised that it is Kamuca. The "West Coast jazz" scene produced a lot of very worthy music. 7. I have already discussed my surprise that this is a Chuck Mangione album. 8. I did not know about Jeff Coffin's jazz albums. I found this to be very enjoyable, and I agree that it would have been very interesting to see him continue down this path. 9. I thought that this was a lovely vocal. I did not have the singer pictured in my mind anything like what she looks like on the album cover! 10. I have Phil Ranelin and Wendell Harrison albums, but could not identify Harrison here. I know that he was a mentor to musicians in Detroit, and that is why I first checked him out years ago. He deserves more recognition and appreciation. I liked this solo a lot. 11. I am so glad that you introduced me to this group of musicians. I just love this song, and I did not know about them. I thought that this was a recording from the 1970s, so it is surprising that it was released in 2009. I did not know that anyone was exploring this musical territory today. This is my find of the year. 12. I have never heard of Robert Stewart before. I like this song a lot, and am going to check him out some more now. Again, I thought that this was from the great age of the 1970s, 13, This is a shock, that this is Dewey Redman. I have never heard him play so "inside" and lyrical before. I find this song quite compelling. If this is the weakest song on the album, then it is well worth getting. Thom, thank you so much for this Blindfold Test! It has given me hours of pleasure, and I have learned about musicians I had never heard of, who I really like.

I saw Chuck Mangione live in early 1976, when he was in his big hat/big popularity phase. I was surprised at how much undiluted jazz content there was to the concert. Saxophonist Gerry Niewood and guitarist Grant Geissman played many straighahead solos which were quite exciting, and Chuck cut loose sometimes too. Chuck found a formula and a look that made money, but both he and his band could play.

Both are a definite surprise.

So jeffcrom, who is it on #7?

Courteous business-speak tends to smooth over relations between people. I find that not that many people can take a blunt statement these days. When one is made, it seems shocking. Now you have said something very negative in a way that people can more easily swallow it. I do this in my work about every three minutes, all day long.

And I think that this is all a parent can do--expose your child to good things and let them decide for themselves what they truly like. If you expect more, you run the risk of seeming too pushy and turning your child off, I think.

I saw Mose at the 1978 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival. The Sunday sets began about 1 in the afternoon and lasted until after midnight: Marcus Belgrave and the II V I Orchestra (with a teenage Kenny Garrett in the sax section) Chico Freeman Hubert Laws Ellington Orchestra (including the introduction of a new piece by Charles Mingus, commissioned for this festival appearance) Mose Allison Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers I remember Mose as a highlight of the four day festival. The festival was dedicated to Duke Ellington, and illustrations of Duke were on all of the festival programs and posters. Mose began with Duke's "I Ain't Got Nothing But The Blues", which Mose had previously recorded. As most of the other festival artists did their nod to Duke with a version of "In a Sentimental Mood", this was welcome. (Another exception was Sun Ra, who presented a rousing, uptempo version of Ellington's "Lightnin'" during the Arkestra's set). Mose was excellent that night on both piano and vocals. He featured many of his songs with wise, world-weary lyrics, which seemed perfect for the near exhaustion I was feeling after four days of many great artists.

An interesting part of this subject to me, is what happens to these babies when they get older. In my experience, and the experiences of my jazz loving friends who had children at about the same time that we did, the babies who hear a lot of jazz do not show any increased tendency toward liking or appreciating jazz when they reach their teens.

Aside from Goffin/King, I think the answer to your question is something different. Cos look, 'Bo Diddley' swings like mad, and the number of jazz musicians who use that 'Bo Diddley' rhythm shows that they weren't/aren't immune. But in the Rock & Roll days, virtually the only jazz that was selling big was west coast jazz. Can you imagine Chet Baker or Gerry Mulligan playing something with that rhythm? Or Lennie Tristano, to move the discussion eastwards? They just weren't doing that sort of thing. MG I think that jazzers did not listen to that music. I read that Chick Corea first listened to the Beatles albums just a few years ago, for example. I have heard New York studio vets, the first line guys, talk about doing sessions in the 1960s and their hearts sinking when they opened the sheet music for their jingle session and saw the rock and roll triplets. To those guys, rock was just simple, dumb music. They never listened to the best rock albums, never understood the vision or sensibility of the rock musicians. To me, that is why some attempts to play rock material by jazz musicians sounds like Dean Martin on the Hollywood Palace TV show singing "The Times They Are A Changin'". He can get the notes right, and the words correct, but has zero feel for the material. You're probably right there, but some did. I'll do a bit of looking through my collection and see what it looks like. Because the studio guys you're talking about may very well have been a completely different bunch of people from the jazz musicians I listen to. MG Some of them are exactly the same guys! It is difficult to generalize, though. I agree that many soul musicians, and jazz musicians playing soul jazz, came up with worthy interpretations of rock songs. Wilson Pickett's "Hey Jude" for example, is much more credible as a piece of music than Bing Crosby's "Hey Jude", to me.

I think that jazzers did not listen to that music. I read that Chick Corea first listened to the Beatles albums just a few years ago, for example. I have heard New York studio vets, the first line guys, talk about doing sessions in the 1960s and their hearts sinking when they opened the sheet music for their jingle session and saw the rock and roll triplets. To those guys, rock was just simple, dumb music. They never listened to the best rock albums, never understood the vision or sensibility of the rock musicians. To me, that is why some attempts to play rock material by jazz musicians sounds like Dean Martin on the Hollywood Palace TV show singing "The Times They Are A Changin'". He can get the notes right, and the words correct, but has zero feel for the material.

Don't like their Rockabilly covers then MG? Their Arthur Alexander covers are good too. Soldier Of Love. They did great takes on the Motown girl groups too. Please Mr Postman etc. I had the originals of all that stuff (well, not the Rockabilly), which I greatly preferred. To me, for example, no one needs to ask whether Barrett Strong's version of 'Money' is better than the Beatles or not; it self-evidently is. Oh, I don't agree, and I have heard each version over 500 times. They are different, and I certainly understand where someone who prefers the Barrett Strong version is coming from, but the Beatles version is really good, to me. As you said, you just don't like the Beatles, That's fine.

It's personal and subjective, like musical taste in general. I always liked the Beatles, from the first time I heard them. I got tired of them for a while because I had heard all of their albums so much, but I keep coming back and listening to them every once in a while. It could really be generational, I think. I was seven years old when they were on Ed Sullivan for the first time, and remember the whole family sitting around mesmerized, with my parents calling them animals. They were the soundtrack of my youth from then until they broke up, then their solo careers were very prominent at my school and on the radio. They were what I knew as music from a young age. Discovering McCoy Tyner, Charlie Parker, Sun Ra, etc. much later, I obviously went off into many other directions, but I don't hate the music I liked as a kid.

Many jazz fans would like to think so. I do not dislike pop or rock music, or find it inherently inferior to jazz. Pop and rock is different, not inferior. I try to find what is good in every style of music, on its own terms. I think that the Beatles recorded and performed their own material with a sensibility and style which has little or nothing to do with jazz. So to me, it almost never sounds good when jazz musicians try to play their material. Maybe if the Beatles had not recorded their songs, and all we had was sheet music of their compositions, it would be different for me. I definitely think that the best versions of the Beatles songs were recorded by the Beatles, with rare exceptions. I disagree with The Magnificent Goldberg on that. I think what is different about the Beatles is that they used the British music hall tradition as one tool among many in their songwriting, so there are glimpses here and there in their songs of something that might be interpreted by jazz musicians in the way that the Great American Songbook is interpreted by jazz musicians. But to me, the Beatles used the British music hall tradition not in a straightforward way, but in a way that commented on the prior tradition without becoming part of it--sometimes with a sort of affectionate send-up of the prior tradition. Also, the British music hall tradition was only one of many musical tools the Beatles used, and their songs and albums were often packed with a great variety of their different influences and musicial tools, used in a new way which was quite original. So to simply try to play jazz on those parts that sound vaguely like a old standard pop song, without getting the feel of the Beatles' mind-set, often produces dreadful results, in my opinion.

Yes. To me, nearly all of the jazz covers of the Beatles badly miss the feel of the music, and veer close to easy listening or worse.

There is so much punctuation after the word "go" in the title of this thread, that I first read it quickly as "Where to golf". I thought, that's odd, that anyone would ask about golf courses on this forum, and that golfing would be part of the Forums Discussion. For the original poster, if you like album covers, the Miscellaneous Music section is the place to go.

I meant that it is a true Hall of Fame Blindfold Test.

Yes, this is one of the greatest Blindfold Tests of all time. It is the Roberto Clemente of Blindfold Tests.

Ella sings "Savoy Truffle" and "Got To Get You Into My Life" on this 1969 album of then recent pop songs.